https://yaktribe.games/underhive/print/cards/696566?i=0&r=0Just getting back into Necromunda and not played in years. Looking for some advice on my list and any feedback. Normally would have the leader with a power hammer and pistol but want to make use of the bs skill but think a heavy bolter is too expensive to take. Also not sure if I should try and take another bully and change the combat shotgun to save points.
N18 1000 point Goliath Starting Army
- Thread starter Marshall shannon
- Start date
Goliaths are slow enough already. Unwieldy (the heavy bolter) hits them hard. Get the tyrant a much cheaper and mobile bolter instead. You need more free credits for bodies. With 3 S4 punches Forge tyrants have more than enough melee power to afford not to have a melee weapon to start with so a Bolter Tyrant is rounded enough to start with while still being flexible.
Bullies are just as effective in melee as Bruisers with the same WS, S and A so if that's their role I would just use them instead. The Fast learner rule quickly and directly gives advances to boost the BS for secondary shooting and your Cool stat if that is an issue but your Bully doesn't have a bad value there. You can save credits there. Like the tyrant they are still S4, and above average S wounding most (T3) on 3+. To hit initial gangers and juves, which is really a melee ganger or juves primary target, that punch is entirely enough to start with.
I would avoid the fighting knife for Goliaths, even at the start, and when starting out just punching can suffice. You really just lack the speed and smaller size to make use of Backstab. Your opponents unless they are similar slow can almost guarantee to be facing you so deny you the S bonus. Yes they have AP-1. So does the Brute cleaver you have access to. And it gives +1 to hit in melee. And has a chance of denying weapon use in opponents Reaction attacks.
With your bullies punch your way through a few juves in the first game, or two or three, and get them Brute Cleavers instead.
The single ranged option of the Stub gun is all you bullies have. At least it's cheap, decent pistol short range and a good short range accuracy bonus to mask your poor BS. And unlike others basic sidearm the auto pistol can take the Infra Sight (you can Trade Post for it as it is Wargear and you are not limited there). Don't use them in melee as a Goliath unless you have not got two close combat weapons to gain duel wielding. Your basic punch is better. A couple of Brute Cleavers only costs 40 credits and is much better for you. Don't forget to upgrade it with ammo types especially if you shell out on a Bullet Merchant hanger on. (Special Ammo are NOT weapons. They are additions to the weapon, you don't throw the shells, so you can Trade Post for the ones outside the fighter Entry). Static rounds are pretty great for stub guns.
As Bullies can do everything a Bruiser can in melee I would only use them as a ranged firing line. With the pricy long arms,
. The Stub cannon your "cheap" option costs 5 to 15 credits more than others basic Lasgun or autogun. For less range. At least it's S5 with a good ammo roll and potentially if it Knocks back D2. They give an initial kick but fall behind as they lack range and accuracy which keep the long arm useful at later games and have no AP or Ammo to keep up the punch against later foes.
Bruisers with Bolters however have weapons that have good Range Damage Ap and Rapid fire. Alone they can fill in for a special weapon damage potential in a pinch. Two of them can eclipse a single special weapon for less cost. With the addition of TP special ammos you can give them a improved Frag grenade like Blast option or the awesome Gunk bolts to improve the utility.
One bolter brusier is well worth the investment early on. And a good option to copy later.
Shotguns of any type are really the darling ganger weapon of necromunda. And Goliaths get the Combat version at a discount. Alone I prefer the Combat shotgun shredder ammo over the Flamer with the mass potential of scatter shot. It's salvo ammo is excellent at close order firefights. Then you can add Firestorm ammo which, Ap aside, is better than the heavy Flamer as it has no Unwieldy. Give it Shatter shells and it gains a extended range option Blast attack. The 30 credit increase in price over the standard shotgun is worth it long term but you could start with a standard one and add the combat shotgun later for the template options (with or without modeling a Super Shotgun model).
Either a Bolter or Shotgun bruiser can easily take the place of a true special weapon specialist brusier. They only miss out on choosing their advances.
Your bread and butter ranged weapons, the stubgun, Bolter and shotguns are decent by themselves but are rapidly upgradable with Special ammo.
Get a Bullet Merchant, maybe a second hanger on after the Rouge doc.
His High Calibre Hookup provides Common access to any special ammo and changes Limited special ammo to Scarce. Across the whole gang. No rebuying Dudums, Firestorms, Shatter shells, Gunk shells or Static rounds.
If you have a gang with weapons that use alternative ammo the Bullet Merchant is the best Hanger on in the game.
Goliaths are one of those gangs.
Bullies are just as effective in melee as Bruisers with the same WS, S and A so if that's their role I would just use them instead. The Fast learner rule quickly and directly gives advances to boost the BS for secondary shooting and your Cool stat if that is an issue but your Bully doesn't have a bad value there. You can save credits there. Like the tyrant they are still S4, and above average S wounding most (T3) on 3+. To hit initial gangers and juves, which is really a melee ganger or juves primary target, that punch is entirely enough to start with.
I would avoid the fighting knife for Goliaths, even at the start, and when starting out just punching can suffice. You really just lack the speed and smaller size to make use of Backstab. Your opponents unless they are similar slow can almost guarantee to be facing you so deny you the S bonus. Yes they have AP-1. So does the Brute cleaver you have access to. And it gives +1 to hit in melee. And has a chance of denying weapon use in opponents Reaction attacks.
With your bullies punch your way through a few juves in the first game, or two or three, and get them Brute Cleavers instead.
The single ranged option of the Stub gun is all you bullies have. At least it's cheap, decent pistol short range and a good short range accuracy bonus to mask your poor BS. And unlike others basic sidearm the auto pistol can take the Infra Sight (you can Trade Post for it as it is Wargear and you are not limited there). Don't use them in melee as a Goliath unless you have not got two close combat weapons to gain duel wielding. Your basic punch is better. A couple of Brute Cleavers only costs 40 credits and is much better for you. Don't forget to upgrade it with ammo types especially if you shell out on a Bullet Merchant hanger on. (Special Ammo are NOT weapons. They are additions to the weapon, you don't throw the shells, so you can Trade Post for the ones outside the fighter Entry). Static rounds are pretty great for stub guns.
As Bullies can do everything a Bruiser can in melee I would only use them as a ranged firing line. With the pricy long arms,
. The Stub cannon your "cheap" option costs 5 to 15 credits more than others basic Lasgun or autogun. For less range. At least it's S5 with a good ammo roll and potentially if it Knocks back D2. They give an initial kick but fall behind as they lack range and accuracy which keep the long arm useful at later games and have no AP or Ammo to keep up the punch against later foes. Bruisers with Bolters however have weapons that have good Range Damage Ap and Rapid fire. Alone they can fill in for a special weapon damage potential in a pinch. Two of them can eclipse a single special weapon for less cost. With the addition of TP special ammos you can give them a improved Frag grenade like Blast option or the awesome Gunk bolts to improve the utility.
One bolter brusier is well worth the investment early on. And a good option to copy later.
Shotguns of any type are really the darling ganger weapon of necromunda. And Goliaths get the Combat version at a discount. Alone I prefer the Combat shotgun shredder ammo over the Flamer with the mass potential of scatter shot. It's salvo ammo is excellent at close order firefights. Then you can add Firestorm ammo which, Ap aside, is better than the heavy Flamer as it has no Unwieldy. Give it Shatter shells and it gains a extended range option Blast attack. The 30 credit increase in price over the standard shotgun is worth it long term but you could start with a standard one and add the combat shotgun later for the template options (with or without modeling a Super Shotgun model).
Either a Bolter or Shotgun bruiser can easily take the place of a true special weapon specialist brusier. They only miss out on choosing their advances.
Your bread and butter ranged weapons, the stubgun, Bolter and shotguns are decent by themselves but are rapidly upgradable with Special ammo.
Get a Bullet Merchant, maybe a second hanger on after the Rouge doc.
His High Calibre Hookup provides Common access to any special ammo and changes Limited special ammo to Scarce. Across the whole gang. No rebuying Dudums, Firestorms, Shatter shells, Gunk shells or Static rounds.
If you have a gang with weapons that use alternative ammo the Bullet Merchant is the best Hanger on in the game.
Goliaths are one of those gangs.
Hand canon are great even in late campaign. i m a bit surprised by your list it seem that you went straight for some options and ignoring others like you made up your mind before doing the list. This is not an attack on your gang or sarcastic. it's just the feeling i have.
For example you put the most expensive gun on your most expensive fighter but haven't consider to give a bit more than stub gun to some of your fighter. At eight bodies you will need to be careful not to loose too many fighter. Even if you gang has a cool stats that is great you are never above a bad luck dice thow.
Have you thought about the gene smitings ? it can help your fighters.
For example you put the most expensive gun on your most expensive fighter but haven't consider to give a bit more than stub gun to some of your fighter. At eight bodies you will need to be careful not to loose too many fighter. Even if you gang has a cool stats that is great you are never above a bad luck dice thow.
Have you thought about the gene smitings ? it can help your fighters.
More bodies is always good.
Genesmything can (quite obviously) help fighters sure.
It can also "hinder" them. A bunch result in cost reductions of the fighter (which leads them to have more credits for the gang so is not all bad). Quite a few of the detrimental traits are not actually that bad especially the ones that impose penalties to the mental stats. -1 Cool on a Bruiser? Well you still have a 6+ good value. Are you really expecting them to solve Intelligence problems? Nope. Corrupted Slug, Nerve burnout etc don't really have proper drawbacks. And save you money for more Brute Cleavers and Shotguns.
Are we sure about this?
I feel like this is still a debated topic and probably up the the arbiter.
It's not a matter of realism, but a philosophy that gangers/juves are the background characters/red shirts of Necromunda. They aren't supposed to get "the good stuff".
Every entry of special ammo gramatically states it is an Add on to a weapon. Older books had them in there own section (which is very clear) and the new Core book puts them as +xx for the credits which means you add them to the existing thing and they are not the original thing. As an addition they are just like Weapon accessories you need the previous thing to add them to.
If you have the weapon already (from the fighters entry list) you have the M16 or Cadia pattern las gun or whatever. You then add the other stuff to it later.
They are properly wargear that you add to the weapon.
In technically correct English grammar and mathmatical table structure the text as written by GW states that special ammo is an addition to the gun. There is no gramatic uncertainty in the text (which is a bit of a shock for GW products).
The gangers fighter entires specifically state that they are restricted to the weapons (in lower case) from thier list (except Hive Scum who are just restricted to the Types). It mentions is absolutley nowhere that they are restricted to the Special Ammo on thier list. If it used the word Weapons instead of weapons then that would be calling every avaliable item as a proper noun which would make them a spercific thing while the use of lower case makes it a plural type of weapons.
They do go into the specific example of the Enforcer Boltgun and Enforcer Shotgun using capitalisation which make them a Proper noun and a spercific weapon which then cant have general bullets added to them unless listed. That is the only case where they have in rulebooks FAQs and Errata addressed when you can't add the special ammo types. They did not say this applied to other items they ruled it as a exception to the norm and not the general situation.
Everything about the use of English Grammar and the mathmatical order of the tables separate the gun from the bullets as distinct items. and Given that UK English speaker wrote the thing it is UK english grammar that is the default to be used.
Common Sense also dictates that it is so. A magazine of shotgun shells is not a weapon. the thing you fire them with is. You don't Throw the Solid slugs a full 60 feet and they hit like an actually fired round.
Don't think I have heard anyone discribe Antiplant rounds as "the good stuff".
Individually none of the special ammo turn the autogun into a Plasmagun or Melta gun level of nasty (en mass with a dozen gangers is different). It on a single basis does not make that one ganger steal the show. And to do so for a whole gang to bypass the Limited trait you need both a Hanger on slot (reducing Brute and other Hanger on potential) and a 75 credit investment that does nothing to help your crew rating. It doesn't break the game or anything.
If GW actually meant to make the rules on special ammo work as they actually wrote it is another matter for debate but as it stands the situation is entirely linguistically clear.
@HugeSamples You always use grammar properly in your posts which is a great thing. Word order, sentance structure and other linguistic factors make things clear to anyone who actually understands the language.
Its not like GW don't mess up the lingustics, they do it a lot for example the Combi trait, but they don't all the time.
Thanks, I try my best.
I’m not particularly invested in the ammo-versus-weapons debate. However, I've played in groups where arbiters insisted ammo was a weapon simply because it had a weapon profile (I feel like we've had similar discussions regarding what counts as a ranged attack). Personally, I prefer the Gangs of the Underhive approach, which clearly categorizes ammo as personal equipment. I understand why Games Workshop used the format they did—it cuts down on having multiple tables for ammo and guns—but I feel some clarity was lost in translation.
As an aside I do wish there were more choices for ammunition for many of the weapons, the choices in the Core Rulebook are sparse to say the least.
You say with perfect grammar. Qudos.
Ah Grammar Nazis. The only acceptable Nazi.
. It was a sad thing they forgot the extremely clear bit from Gangs of the underhive.
Absolutely. The book of Peril ones help a bit.
But where are the incendiary rounds? They are a real world thinking that exists?
They made up shield breaker rounds why not fire bullets?
Shotguns already have them, I'd guess GW didn't want things that close... don't ask about the other super similar but different things 
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