2.1 Genestealer Covens Warband

[Tiny]

Seeing as there are about 100 different Genestealer Cult Warbands floating about, some for NCE, some for Inquisimunda, I have taken the liberty of stealing compiling the best bits of them (IMO) into one list.

Please critique as required.

A few liberties were taken with regards to fluff (e.g. Only Human, Ork and Eldar covens. no Tau, Hrud or other xenos). This was to ensure that the Magus was always a Wyrd etc.

Also, the list assumes that Wyrds are able to take Wyrd Levels as possible 2/12 rolls for skill upgrades in 2.1.

Edit 05/06 - Updated the document with options for Tau/Kroot, changed G1/2 Hybrids and removed Hired Guns access. Allowed 50% of Brood Brothers to be different species to represent hired guns and stray aliens brought into the fold of the coven.

Edit 05/06 - Added Aberrants and other changes.

And another edit: Spelling and that kind of stuff.

Edit 07/06 - Updated loads of stuff as suggested.

Edit 22/12/16 - Primus, weapon list, aberrant cost, purestrain cost, hybrid racial max.

 

[scavvyjay]

I was thinking of writing one myself! I would allow a human, tau, kroot and other xenos as host races, if only for the modelling possibilities. I would change the 1st and 2nd generation hybrid template into two separate profiles. 1st gen gets a +2 WS and a -2 to it BS, also no weapons other than close combat. 2nd gen get +1 WS -1BS . Both generations would get access to muscle skills regardless of race and a ban on techno. I'm really not convinced about purestrains as I think they are absolutely lethal and don't need advances in your rules et. I uzed an imature genstealer in a recent scenario, it was weakish in combat stats were
M5 Ws4 Bs0 S3 T3 I4 W1 A2 Ld7, if this was the starting point for a stealer then they mightn't be as scary to let them advance.l also don't think cults should have hired guns due to their secrecy issues. The only exception would be a genestealer patriarch for special scenarios. Here's another idea, you can pick different types of genestealers forces,
1. Genestealer cult, the vanilla cult using the template above.
2. Genestealer invasion force, less later generation hybrids and brood brothers due to a long term hibernation in a space hulk, and more early generation hybrids.
3. Genestealer xenos warband. A cult that constantly moves due to bad luck or severe paranoia on the half of its leaders. Can have several different types of hybrid eg. Orks and elder hybrids, and access to xenos weaponry too.
4. Genestealer chaos coven. Due to nearly being destroyed, the cults patriarch has turned to the ruinous powers for help. The only genestealers that actively used mutants.
That's my thoughts for now.

 

[Tiny]

From the new Deathwatch set:

1st Generation Hybrid:

2nd Generation Hybrid:

I agree that fluff-wise there is also evidence for 4 arms and less guns but this is what the new up to date models show, hence why I have made them a little more similar. Maybe add the option of 4 arms and +2 WS to the 1st gen ones. No point in giving them -2 BS as that puts them at 0. Maybe -1 for the 1st Gen guys. Will certainly have a play about with numbers tomorrow and split them into 2 profiles.

As for other races, you could probably add all of the races if you wanted but it's a lot harder to justify a psychic magus in a Tau coven. Maybe just no Wyrds in Tau band. Either way you should definitely not be able to mix species except maybe Tau, Kroot and other Tau allies.

The stats you give would be fine if the Purestrains were 75TG to hire. Purestrains are indeed crazy in Necromunda. Not so much in Inquisimunda where you have Inquisitors, Ogryn, Praetorians and other killing machines abound. That and at 250 TG they're really damn expensive. They're also pretty mandatory from a fluff perspective. They are definitely worth playtesting as they are to see if they're broke IMO.

As for additional types of cult, I think it would be best to get the basic cult sorted out before adding any variations to it. #3 in particular doesn't make much sense as cults are for infiltrating populations to assist approaching Tyranid fleets in turning planets to biomass. A down on their luck cult of miscreants just wouldn't happen. Same goes for #4 really.

I do agree on the reasoning behind losing Hired Guns.

 

[Tiny]

Updated the document with options for Tau/Kroot, changed G1/2 Hybrids and removed Hired Guns access. Allowed 50% of Brood Brothers to be different species to represent hired guns and stray aliens brought into the fold of the coven.

I notice the original document had 7 views but only 1 response. Come on people, chime in and say whether you like it or not. If there is no criticism I assume it must be perfect.

 

[Human Garbage]

I was wondering if it would be possible to add options so that you could use the new plastic Genestealers from the Deathwatch Overkill set with these rules?

Genestealer Aberrants could be represented by adding the Big Mutie profile to the 1st Generation Hybrid profile.

 

[Tiny]

Are they much larger than the 1st gen models in the set? I haven't got my hands on them yet but from looking at pics thought they were about the same size.

If they are the same size, aberrations could just be used as 1st gens with 2h weapons. If they are indeed larger then the big mutie option makes sense. Although "at no additional cost, may gain +1W and +1T but suffers from stupidity and reduces BS to zero" may make more sense. Could also just add a 0-2 aberrations slot but wanted to keep the slots down as there are already a lot.

Anyone got a side by side comparison pic?

 

[Human Garbage]

I was thinking stats. GW has released official 40K stats for the models in Deathwatch Overkill that can be found here: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Deathwatch/40k-rules-deathwatch-en.pdf

If you combine the human baseline stats with the 1st gen hyrid and big mutie profiles, you get a pretty simillilar stat line as in the rules above.

 

[Tiny]

40k stats should in no way reflect anything in INQ.

Space Marines in 40K for example, are a lot worse than they should be compared to other models' stats in order to sell more models. A Necromunda ganger should never be able to be anywhere close to a Marine's stats. If we look at those rules, all the 1st and 2nd Gen hybrids should be WS4 BS3. The 3rd and 4th should all have I4 and 5+ save. This would make them far too expensive to take many of them.

Don't forget, Necromunda and INQ models need room to grow otherwise they become too good once they gain a few levels.

I will add stats for 0-2 Aberrations somewhere between 1st Gen Hybrids and their current 40K stats.

 

[tribeof1]

I really like this, and thinks it's pretty close to where it needs to be. My comments:

* I'd bump Investigation to 5, as a sum of 14 seems to be the norm, and I don't see a reason to break from the standard here, for either fluff or balance reasons.

* Puritan warbands should probably gain Hatred vs. Genestealers covens.
* Revise "Selective" to account for the change allowing mixed race Brood Brothers. It might be fun to include something like this:
Selective: Genestealer Covens only target psychically attuned species and as such may only choose from a limited pool of species. Some covens indoctrinate Brood Brothers from a mix of species, while others contain only those of similar genetic make-up. If a coven contains only a single species, members benefit from an enhanced psychic connection -- treat all models as if they were equipped with commlinks/microbeads.

* I like the idea of adding an Aberrant option to the 1st Gen profile (perhaps as an alternative to the extra arm and claw upgrade). Adding the Big Mutie stat modifiers is okay, but you'd end up with a starting fighter with WS 5 (or 6, if an ork) and S 5. So maybe just an option for (+1 S, +1 T, +1W, -1 I) at 25 points?

* The cost for 3rd Gen hybrids probably ought to be Base +40 TG, mirroring other heavy-type profiles with those stats and special/heavy weapon access. (The weapon access appears to be costed at +10 TG). I'd probably classify them as heavies, too, and start them at 60 XP.

 

[Tiny]

Edit 05/06 - Added Aberrants and other changes as per above posts.

Have a look folks and let me know if there are any glaring problems. Otherwise I'm pretty confident its ready for serious testing.

 

[scavvyjay]

It looks fine to me, if I can get my gaming group to have a look we could play test them. The magos gets to chose his type of power? I thought the were randomly determined. That's quite big. Perhaps if a purestrain takes a headwound his ovipositor may be damaged? What about bionic for purestrains? I don't see a problem but perhaps only if there is a doctor within the cult? I must admit I'm liking this set of rules, but Id like most eventualities cover ed.

 

[Tiny]

Yeah, randomly determining which psychic lore you get is daft IMO.

No way a Magus should have Pyro powers.

A model that has flames spouting from his sword shouldn't randomly get Biomancy.

Even the underhive Wyrds get to pick which lore their powers are from. Why would a powerful Inquisitor hire a Telepath only for him to turn out to be a psychic arsonist?

Purestrain should not be allowed bionics. He wouldn't be happy with a guy cutting his damaged arm off to replace it with a metal one IMO. They act on instinct for the most part.

Also IMO adding things like damaged ovipositor on a head wound seems like a step too far in the complication department. He already has a lot of special rules. Why would a shot to the brain which makes him stupid hurt his tongue anyway? Same as with mutations. You don't treat head wounds differently for a 2 headed mutant.

 

[scavvyjay]

Daft or not it gives Genestealers a big advantage over every other warband. Unless this rule was to be phased out in the main rules then I don't think they should get to choose. Im also not 100% sure about the losing a magus rule. I get the bit that a hybrid takes over as a magus but him simply becoming a wyrd doesn't seem right. i suppose the adding of a wyrd ability has to be paid for but what happens if there isn't enough TG in the kitty? Does the cult just disband? Or have to sell equipment to buy his wyrd ability? What would make more sense (and is less open to exploitation) is the most eligible hybrid becoming the Magos and gaining the brood telepathy ability even if he isn't a wyrd.
Anyway, I think this list needs more than just three of us discussing it. @spafe @Matelloco any thoughts?

 

[tribeof1]

I'm all for scrapping the "random power table" for Wyrds, and just letting them pick the table (perhaps with some restrictions, based on warband), but roll randomly for the power(s). But that's probably a discussion for the psychic rules thread.

I agree that damaging ovipositors is probably too fiddly, not to mention not something I want to think about.

What I DO want to think about is bionic genestealers. Because that's too cool, even if a bit unfluffy, or OP(?). Maybe only allow them when a limb has been injured, not as elective surgery?

Goes off to start converting a Genestealer Cult/Pit Slave warband...

 

[Similar.]

In the case of the lost of tha magus, the patriarch would breth another.

I suggest we find a way to have rules to represent this. How about something like must pay for a new magus immediately(this represent the luck of having a suitable host at hand for the patriarch) else after each game on a roll of x+ must be pass for the brething process continue while maintains control of the cult. The x+ roll could depend on gang rating? Or any measure of resoursea?

Maybe there could be a mechanism where the cult saves credits for a new magus?

On another subject, should there be genestealer specific gear? Say a boneseord?

 

[spafe]

Under brood telepathy in the Magus entry... you don't need to say (not hired guns) as they can't be taken anyway.

In the 2nd gen equipment entry you have the 1st gen restrictions copied in too

3rd gen may purchase the mutations... clarify if they need to buy all 3 as a package, only 1 of those 3, or any combination of them.

you haven't listed the aberrants skill tables.


possibly a point we have to raise in the main rules... why can't tau or kroot be a wyrd? I think that Tau species should have 'not a psyker' rule in the traits... which I agree with... but why not kroot? why shouldn't they be able to be touched by the warp?

Other than those issues... nothing jumps out as exploitable, so that's a great base point... I don't think having a wyrd and him taking over from the magus is game breaking at all, and should happen. The only thing I would say is that no-one becomes a wyrd, if you don't have a suitable candidate then you must sell stuff until you can afford to recruit a 4gen with wyrd lvl 1 (cost represents the purstraing having to go out and find/capture a wyrd etc, fluff it how you like).

That'd be my take on that.

I will try and make some random lists later today or tomorrow to see how easily I can break it (all imunda stuff is 'breakable' its more just how well it lines up with others

 

[Tiny]

How about no free Wyrd level but adding "The next time the new Magus gains a new skill advance he MUST instead gain Wyrd Level 1 (if his species allows it)." Or something similar?

This would represent the time between the Patriarch choosing his new guy and the guy's new psychic abilities developing.

@spafe I have changed all of your other points on the document. Will upload once we sort out this Magus issue.

As for Kroot being a wyrd, I don't see any problem there. Would anyone have a problem if I just changed species to any? The whole brood having to be same species would prohibit some (e.g. Ogryn and Sslyth) cults.

@Similar. The Patriarch doesn't birth the Magus. He is a 4th Gen Hybrid who is chosen by the Patriarch to lead the cult.

 

[Tiny]

I notice from this pic that 1st Gen don't all have claws. Does it make sense to make the claws optional? Or just ignore this one model that breaks the rules? Maybe make them optional on a 2nd Gen and use him as one of those?

 

[spafe]

I like that idea for the next upgrade to be gain a wyrd level... nice fix

 

[scavvyjay]

I notice from this pic that 1st Gen don't all have claws. Does it make sense to make the claws optional? Or just ignore this one model that breaks the rules? Maybe make them optional on a 2nd Gen and use him as one of those?

I agree, because the Hybrids are er, hybrids of two races it makes sense that not all would have claws. Optional claws are better.

I like that idea for the next upgrade to be gain a wyrd level... nice fix

Seconded.

I'm all for scrapping the "random power table" for Wyrds, and just letting them pick the table (perhaps with some restrictions, based on warband), but roll randomly for the power(s). But that's probably a discussion for the psychic rules thread.

I agree that damaging ovipositors is probably too fiddly, not to mention not something I want to think about.

What I DO want to think about is bionic genestealers. Because that's too cool, even if a bit unfluffy, or OP(?). Maybe only allow them when a limb has been injured, not as elective surgery?

Goes off to start converting a Genestealer Cult/Pit Slave warband...

Cyberdine would have field day if they could get hold of cybernetic alien organisms!