2nd Edition: Anyone ever math-out point costs?

[ScooterinAB]

I've been picking at 2nd edition for a while now very slowly. I've been wanting to recompile the rules as well as add in some of the newer models that never had rules. While some units are easy enough (take X squad and change their wargear options, or take Y squad and give the Z's stats), I'm running into issues were I just have no idea how to set the point costs, and it's only going to get worse when I eventually get to armies like Necrons or Tau.

I know that Dark Millennium says that the Studio just kind of made up point costs, but I do wonder if there's a pattern to it and if anyone has ever sat down to workout at least a starting point for costing things.

 

[Ben_S]

it's only going to get worse when I eventually get to armies like Necrons

In case you're not aware, there were 2nd edition rules for some Necrons (lords, warriors, destroyers, and individual scarabs). There would be more to do to make a whole army list, but it's a start. I'm not that familiar with Shadow War Armageddon, but perhaps that might help, since it basically used 2nd edition stats I believe.

Regarding the main question, I'm not aware of any general formula. I'd suggest trying to find an existing unit that is close to what you want and then tinkering with stats and points.

 

[Stoof]

Rogue Trader gave the players the formula they used to create units and points costs. I'd be a little surprised if by 2nd ed they were just hand waving the points costs on gut instinct and not working them out at least approximately by formula before hand. Perhaps the Rogue Trader formula is worth a look? I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a match to 2nd ed, but you might be able to reverse engineer it.

 

[ScooterinAB]

Rogue Trader gave the players the formula they used to create units and points costs. I'd be a little surprised if by 2nd ed they were just hand waving the points costs on gut instinct and not working them out at least approximately by formula before hand. Perhaps the Rogue Trader formula is worth a look? I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a match to 2nd ed, but you might be able to reverse engineer it.

Ooo. I did not know that. Definitely worth a look, even if it just gives a starting point. Thanks.

 

[Hansuke]

Here is the basic point cost schedule from Rogue Trader Online (it hasn't been on the web in many years). Not sure if it will help you in 2nd edition. I had read in several places that the point values in 2nd were adjusted after play-testing. So there may not be a one shot way to calculate point values. I have always used them for general game balance for friendly games in RT. I can probably count the times that I have played competitively on one hand.

 

[Ardavion]

Rogue Trader gave the players the formula they used to create units and points costs. I'd be a little surprised if by 2nd ed they were just hand waving the points costs on gut instinct and not working them out at least approximately by formula before hand. Perhaps the Rogue Trader formula is worth a look? I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a match to 2nd ed, but you might be able to reverse engineer it.

Late to this. Looking through an old copy of the Battle Bible to work out conversions for costs between 2nd ed and N95, I worked out that most 2nd ed model costs did in fact work from a (roughly) standardised cost for weapons and armour, e.g. all laspistols were worth one point across all armies. You could then remove those costs and break down a point cost across a model's statline (reducing Ld by a half to account for it being a 2d6 mechanic versus every other stat). I didn't do it for everything, but the models I did it for were reasonably consistent.

I was trying to do something similar for more recent editions of 40k, except armour and some weapon costs are now baked into model costs hiding their absolute values, and swapping equipment out just "increases" costs, sometimes by +0pts, which causes issues with conversion multiplication (probably something intentional by GW, I think).