N18 40K Open Day Necromunda Panel

Regarding vehicles, they'll probably not bother tbh; there are plenty of vehicles already available (e.g. the GSC vehicles) that they'd probably push as "fun conversion opportunities", and they're already stowed off with all the stuff they're already putting out.
 
This thread is surprising to me. Necromunda made me a fanatical kitbasher and converter. It all started with the old Outlanders boxed set. I wanted to play Scavvies, but the available models didn't always have the weapons that I wanted. AND I wanted mutants in my gang equipped with the most synergistic weapons. The models were all pewter at that time aside from the plastic minis in the Necromunda boxed set. I'd never really converted before, but once I started... well, I've never stopped.

We live in a different era now I realize. Back in the day, GW used to have plenty of units and characters in the rules, that had no models whatsoever. Enterprising or desperate players had to resort to making their own conversions to make WYSIWYG (or close to it) miniatures. But now in the era of a plastic kit for everything in your favorite codex or rulebook, it seems that GW customers are much more entitled. Everyone is waiting for a kit for every little specific unit or rules entry.

I believe that the current Necromunda rules are intended specifically for "Grown-ups & Grognards." You need the do-it-yourself attitude of the past and the disposable income of an adult to play Necromunda. Sure, you only need a dozen or so miniatures to field one gang, but who can stop there? I think that if you aren't buying plastic bits to make your own conversions or entire boxes of 40K/AoS miniatures then you aren't doing it right. I don't see the official Necromunda plastic/resin miniatures as the totality of the Necromunda model range. I see them as the baseline of miniatures for your conversions with the entirety of the GW and independent bits sellers ranges as your raw materials.

Now for the rulebooks, the lack of clarity and things that desperately need an FAQ bother me too. I don't want to see GW stop making Necromunda books. No! I was a Necromunda original rulebook purist for, well, decades. I thought that the Necromunda rules were fantastic and I was resistant to any attempts or suggestions to change them. And I wasn't hesitant to politely disagree (flame) absolutely anyone online who dared to disagree. ;) Though the new Necromunda is a solid game and they have absolutely made changes that improve so many aspects of it. I always hate hate hated the House Weapons Lists introduced during the Fanatic/Specialist Games era. And I wrote many posts (or just asides in unrelated posts) decrying them. Though I find their current implementation flavorful and realistic (for this fictional setting).

I see people online these days actually complaining that Kill Team or Necromunda has too many books. WTF? I want GW to continue to support both games and add more units, rules, and campaigns. I was perfectly happy to make my own in the past, but I think GW is doing a great job at the moment. I suppose that it comes down to having spent decades playing GW games. I'm not surprised when the rules are unclear or contradictory, and it doesn't bother me. My friends and I just come up with a house rule and move on. From my perspective, I'm impressed with the solid efforts made today by GW to make better rules and address known issues.

I found this picture online of some Spyre Hunters that someone (not me) converted. I hope that it is illustrative regarding what I'm talking about and also inspiring.
 
Too PC? The Cawdor models are already more "nutty" than Redemptionists ever were, but I don't even see how that has anything to do with being "PC" or not. Have you heard about this new Cannibal Holocaust campaign they are promoting right now in a huge boxed set? How about the Slavers Guild, or forcibly getting opponents addicted to narcotics with chem delivery rounds? Maybe Alien sex cults are your thing, Necromunda has them. What about that BDSM Nuns with Guns army just released for a related product line? I don't think being "PC" is stifling any creativity for GW, and I certainly don't see why it is a constant fear among people. Ha!

Sorry if this seems like an attack on you, it isn't intended to be. It's just that the hysteria of perceived PC culture run amok is perplexing to me, and just as annoying as actual keyboard crusaders feigning offense for clicks and likes.
 
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Ash wastes would be cool, but the wide open terrain worries me from a gameplay standpoint unless there are plenty of vehicles tohide inside.

It's disappointing that there are not slide show pictures to salivate over for the next year!
 
i honestly don’t know what to make of this post... tongue-in-cheek? misinterpreted? it’s an odd post from someone who’s been in the tribe longer than i have... i’m pretty sure one of us missed a point somewhere... i’ll totally own it if it’s me.
 
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This thread is surprising to me. Necromunda made me a fanatical kitbasher and converter. It all started with the old Outlanders boxed set. I wanted to play Scavvies, but the available models didn't always have the weapons that I wanted. AND I wanted mutants in my gang equipped with the most synergistic weapons. The models were all pewter at that time aside from the plastic minis in the Necromunda boxed set. I'd never really converted before, but once I started... well, I've never stopped.

We live in a different era now I realize. Back in the day, GW used to have plenty of units and characters in the rules, that had no models whatsoever. Enterprising or desperate players had to resort to making their own conversions to make WYSIWYG (or close to it) miniatures. But now in the era of a plastic kit for everything in your favorite codex or rulebook, it seems that GW customers are much more entitled. Everyone is waiting for a kit for every little specific unit or rules entry.

I believe that the current Necromunda rules are intended specifically for "Grown-ups & Grognards." You need the do-it-yourself attitude of the past and the disposable income of an adult to play Necromunda. Sure, you only need a dozen or so miniatures to field one gang, but who can stop there? I think that if you aren't buying plastic bits to make your own conversions or entire boxes of 40K/AoS miniatures then you aren't doing it right. I don't see the official Necromunda plastic/resin miniatures as the totality of the Necromunda model range. I see them as the baseline of miniatures for your conversions with the entirety of the GW and independent bits sellers ranges as your raw materials.

Now for the rulebooks, the lack of clarity and things that desperately need an FAQ bother me too. I don't want to see GW stop making Necromunda books. No! I was a Necromunda original rulebook purist for, well, decades. I thought that the Necromunda rules were fantastic and I was resistant to any attempts or suggestions to change them. And I wasn't hesitant to politely disagree (flame) absolutely anyone online who dared to disagree. ;) Though the new Necromunda is a solid game and they have absolutely made changes that improve so many aspects of it. I always hate hate hated the House Weapons Lists introduced during the Fanatic/Specialist Games era. And I wrote many posts (or just asides in unrelated posts) decrying them. Though I find their current implementation flavorful and realistic (for this fictional setting).

I see people online these days actually complaining that Kill Team or Necromunda has too many books. WTF? I want GW to continue to support both games and add more units, rules, and campaigns. I was perfectly happy to make my own in the past, but I think GW is doing a great job at the moment. I suppose that it comes down to having spent decades playing GW games. I'm not surprised when the rules are unclear or contradictory, and it doesn't bother me. My friends and I just come up with a house rule and move on. From my perspective, I'm impressed with the solid efforts made today by GW to make better rules and address known issues.

I found this picture online of some Spyre Hunters that someone (not me) converted. I hope that it is illustrative regarding what I'm talking about and also inspiring.

I agree with an awful lot of this and I think I get the point you are making. When I see the current 40k character range and you have "phobos librarian' and that is the only pose you are getting it does sort of dissapoint me. I always thought characters should be very individual and when everyone's look the same because of a monopose kit it makes me a little sad.

Converting up your own characters is very rewarding and since Necromunda is basically a gang of characters I don't necessarily want everything to have its own specific model. Sort of like how many named 40k characters had no models for years so we converted our own.

That make sense? Sorta?
 
Converting up your own characters is very rewarding and since Necromunda is basically a gang of characters I don't necessarily want everything to have its own specific model. Sort of like how many named 40k characters had no models for years so we converted our own.

That make sense? Sorta?

That makes perfect sense hobby-wise, true.
However do remember that GeeDubs is a commercial enterprise which by default has a single purpose - gain revenue for it's shareholders. And from a business stand point it both makes more money to only have rules for models you actually have AND throttles the competition, since they will have a harder time making generic "heroic scale" dudes due to copyright issues.
Sad but true.
 
I see people online these days actually complaining that Kill Team or Necromunda has too many books. WTF?
Well, the F is twofold (as far as Neomunda is concerned at least, I've not followed KT beyond the first rulebook):
  1. they are churning out content faster than they realistically can. So we get books that are little more than a collection of suggested house-rules (and are full of errors and assorted typos) but are still sold at a premium.
  2. half of the books they have published those last two years are now useless. And I'm not exaggerating for emphasis. Out of the 11 books they have released, 5.5 are now obsolete (that 0.5 being either half the N18 rulebook or half the DU rulebook)
I reckon they could have spent the same resources writing 4, maybe 5 good, well-written books. Instead, we now have about 2 books worth of good content, and a lot of trees have died in vain.

As for the miniature side of things... well, converting is not for everyone. It's nice that Necromunda encourages conversions (as opposed to 40k where the load-out options are strictly limited to what can be built by following the instructions, more often than not to absurd extents) but in this day and age you'd expect Geedubs to at least provide official models for all the basic options. Otherwise, it creates an unnecessary barrier to entry for all the little Timmies out there.
Do we need models for civilians, hangers-on, murder cyborg, cannibals, brain-leaf zombies, all exotic illegal weapons, etc? Maybe not, even though they would be nice to have. Do we need models for the Delaque lasgun and all the pets and brutes? Yes, absolutely.
 
well, the reason for my confusion is more along the lines of wondering when anyone was stopped from converting just because there was an official model? the box sets we’re daydreaming about (and in no way actually expecting to receive) would be a huge boon for conversion junkies.

and official models are never the final word on minis. what if you don’t like the official models? i, for one, loathe the new delaque and cawdor models. HOWEVER i’m thinking Cawdor would make an excellent chaos cult and the new delaque would make an excellent Yankee street gang with some new heads.
 
I am with Punktaku on this one. I don't know that this crew is the "you must use bespoke miniatures from GW and cannot convert or third party" crew this seems generally aimed at, although GW itself might be the actual target of the post, because with care, they have managed to engineer the assembly of multi-part plastic kits to make them about as fiddly for conversion as the old one-piece pewter models. Which doesn't stop us, and won't stop us, but does seem to miss some of the inherent potential in multi-part styrene kits. Likewise GW's "WYSIWYG" doesn't seem to them to mean "this could be this thing," instead trying [unsuccessfully] to tell us all it means "buy this specific part for this specific model as this specific dollar cost, plus shipping." The marketing strategy, with the cards, and upgrade parts, seems based in the "collectible miniatures game" market, rather than the "converter's heaven" kitbash market. But that's marketing, not customers.

Curiously, their ork range does still hold that "kitbash" marketing to a good extent, even in the new buggies - looking at where things join, boyz are separate from seats and floors, etc, allowing for the possibility of variance. Good for GorkaMorka.

Edit: Also, those Spyrers are lovely. Does anyone have any idea whose they are that we could credit them? Kudos.
 
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GorkaMorka worked well in part by limiting the strength of weapons that were viably available, thus limiting how quickly vehicles could be taken down, and also in part by ensuring that turning wasn't always reliably easy. Ash Wastes COULD easily do the same, pulling from GM's design ethos.
 
Yeah I'm not worried about making conversions, preferably finding a suitable base to work from. While conversions are always encouraged and I don't mean to demotivate anyone, I'm not particularly impressed by the examples you shown. I'm also mostly happy about all the official minis so far, and I'd prefer to get the real minis instead of converting. Which puts all of my conversion plans on delay in case forge world releases anything new.
 
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and the new delaque would make an excellent Yankee street gang with some new heads.
new_york_-_five_points_-_screenshot-e1420575855817.jpg

Mmmmm.

the reason for my confusion is more along the lines of wondering when anyone was stopped from converting just because there was an official model? the box sets we’re daydreaming about (and in no way actually expecting to receive) would be a huge boon for conversion junkies.
Agreed. Which, given the nattering-about by others above, suggests there is less disagreement here than first thought. Thorgor's point about successive books actually undoing previous book content is pertinent as well. It isn't additional content that folks seem to be complaining about regarding the multiple books - it is paying full book price for errata that replaces the book you just bought [*full disclosure, I have personally not bought ANY of the N18 books, just the toy soldiers]. Given that the 1995 edition lasted about a decade with only a FAQ and a page of errata, with each book and article being supplementary rather than replacement, and then the 200x edition lasted another fifteen years likewise, I can see the difficulty for those who buy. Buy the NM boxed set? The book is superseded entirely, and its replacement has already been entirely replaced. Within two years. That is, essentially, an edition a year. Phew!

As for actual new content? Not a complaint. The Corpse Grinders may not look to everyone's taste, sure, but are rife for conversion fodder or use as the Cult. And so on. I can easily see someone using them to build phenomenal Pit Slaves, for example.

Anyhow.
 
and this is why i avoided forums for years. Ambiguity and Tone is too hard to read. is that a jab at the spyrers in the above picture? is that about my dream box sets (they’re dreamy! DREAMY!!!)? or is it pointing out my gallery is full of sucky minis?

i just don’t know. 😫
 
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Well, the F is twofold (as far as Neomunda is concerned at least, I've not followed KT beyond the first rulebook):
  1. they are churning out content faster than they realistically can. So we get books that are little more than a collection of suggested house-rules (and are full of errors and assorted typos) but are still sold at a premium.
  2. half of the books they have published those last two years are now useless. And I'm not exaggerating for emphasis. Out of the 11 books they have released, 5.5 are now obsolete (that 0.5 being either half the N18 rulebook or half the DU rulebook)
I reckon they could have spent the same resources writing 4, maybe 5 good, well-written books. Instead, we now have about 2 books worth of good content, and a lot of trees have died in vain.

As for the miniature side of things... well, converting is not for everyone. It's nice that Necromunda encourages conversions (as opposed to 40k where the load-out options are strictly limited to what can be built by following the instructions, more often than not to absurd extents) but in this day and age you'd expect Geedubs to at least provide official models for all the basic options. Otherwise, it creates an unnecessary barrier to entry for all the little Timmies out there.
Do we need models for civilians, hangers-on, murder cyborg, cannibals, brain-leaf zombies, all exotic illegal weapons, etc? Maybe not, even though they would be nice to have. Do we need models for the Delaque lasgun and all the pets and brutes? Yes, absolutely.

Thanks for your comment @Thorgor.


Necromunda Rulebooks
Yes, I absolutely agree with you about the way the Necromunda rules were rolled out for the new Necromunda. It was an awful strategy and I feared that it would be the end for this new Necromunda. I'm glad I was wrong about that. I absolutely understand people's frustration and anger about how GW sold us a series of Necromunda rulebooks which were quickly made useless. I did waste some money because of this, but I am still very pleased to have all the core rules for Necromunda condensed to two hardcover rulebooks.

Necromunda Elitism
Call me a hater, but I'm happy that the bar to entry for Necromunda keeps out Timmies. I feel that Necromunda tries to prioritize the rules with a strong preference toward being faithful to the lore/fluff. This means that game balance is a secondary concern for Necromunda. As a result, Necromunda allows players who want to make broken and abusive gangs. For these reasons, I feel that you need to choose your fellow Necromunda players carefully, they need to "get it." One upshot of this is that the Win-At-All-Costs tournament troglodytes have no interest in playing Necromunda, which I consider one of the best features of the game.

New Miniature Wishlist
I would love a plastic multi-part Necromunda Civilians kit. I always loved the old Empire Militia for their versatility. In fact, sensing that GW was going to discontinue certain old WHFB kits from the AoS range, ordered a couple of the militia boxes which I am now hording.