N18 A few Ash Nomads questions

Lunarcruiser

Gang Hero
Jun 12, 2022
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I am adding a new gang of Ash Nomads to a well developed semi perpetual campaign. (Probably too much credits but...)

Question one. The Dune Skuttler comes with Heavy Carapace Armour. Is the initiative penalty already factored into the stats?
(I can't seem to see anywhere about if preset equipment, like the heavy Carapace, being factored into the stats or not).

Question two. Wasteland Snipers rule. Since the rule states they "treat long rifles as Basic weapons instead of Special weapons" can they take Gunshrouds.
They could have stated they "may be equipped with Long rifles despite them being Special Weapons" or similar but they had their wording with "Basic" (possibly just to confuse things...)

My group is okay with long rifles and long las having Gunshrouds anyway, for anyone, and technically rules as written it's allowed for Tarn'runi warriors.

Just wondering the Yaktribes views on it.

Question three. Promoting specialists.
This one is hypothetical, I have only promoted a specialist to champion once taking a delaque juve all the way to master of shadows level over five or six campaigns, I have no plans to actually do this.
When spending the 12xp to promote a specialist to a champion do they retain their Gang fighter (ganger) and Wasteland Sniper rules?

Prospects and juves lose rules when promoted and gain other but if hypothetically a specialist does it only says they become a Champion and gain a random skill.
 
Not much to say on 2 & 3,havent given it much thought.

But on 1, I'd wondered the same but someone pointed out to me: the penalties for heavy carapace are when charging, but easily misread as partly permanent and partly on the charge. (E.g. It's a fairly plausible [mis]read to read it as bullet points, a la:
- minus 1 initiative
- minus 1" mv on the charge
When it makes more sense [though isn't wholly clear cut, I think it's a stretch to take the misread version above, when this is far more sensible re-arranging of the opaque sentence]...
'On the charge:
- minus 1 Initiative
- minus 1" mv'

I don't think that's indisputable, but it seems like if you meant permanent - 1 init, that'd be a very weird way to phrase it. Conversely, if you meant both on the charge (and hadn't considered if it was clear or open to interpretation) that seems like an obvious - if careless - way to phrase it.

That's my take, at least, and that of whoever tipped me off to my own worry about it.
 
Premade fighters with partial servo harness have officially been listed with 2 profiles (one with stat reduction included). Fighters with heavy carapace have never been listed officially with 2 profiles. Leaning towards @Xisor_of_Karak_Izor's interpretation here.
 
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About the promotion, the Necormunda FaQ says (under Book of Ruin)

"Should a fighter change type, they lose the special rules of their old type, but gain the special rules of the new type."
I saw that. Given that it is entirely talking about Hungry Hungry hippos in that whole section of the Book of Ruin and their disturbingness, cannibalism freaks me out hopefully everyone else too, there is an argument that it is in context with the topic of Corpse grinders.

To be honest I think they should have put that line you quoted in both the Death of a Leader and the Advancement sections in the Core book. As far as I am aware that FAQ is the only place they say it and eventually it will get replaced and being GW editing they will forget to include it in the next one.
 
I saw that. Given that it is entirely talking about [corpse grinders]
Yes, but when promoted, an ash waste nomad warrior's type will change into a champion. The Wasteland snipers -rule only speaks about ash waste warriors treating long rifles as basic, nothing about the champion types. Does this mean ash waste nomad specialists don't treat long rifles as basic? Probably, but at least he can get special and heavy weapons.
 
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Yes, but when promoted, an ash waste nomad warrior's type will change into a champion. The Wasteland snipers -rule only speaks about ash waste warriors treating long rifles as basic, nothing about the champion types. Does this mean ash waste nomad specialists don't treat long rifles as basic? Probably, but at least he can get special and heavy weapons.
This is all hypothetical.
It's a ton of work to make it cost effective over several campaigns.

Ash Nomads specialists are still Warriors like all Specialists are still the Gang Fighter (Ganger) type so would still treat the long rifle as basic.
Given that they have access to special weapons as well so it is almost a moot point by then unless they add the gunshroud to the "basic" long rifle. When promoting to champion the fighter loses the Wasteland Sniper rule, as you pointed out from the FAQ, so now the long rifle is a special weapon again with a basic and pistols only accessory attached that they have been using just fine for ages.

Yay GW rules....
 
This is one of those really dumb unique exceptions. It would be much better to ignore that writing. Why can't they have access to Long rifle in their list, just like all the other exceptions? Normal juves or specialist juves (prospects) don't have access to basic weapons or special weapons. But Ash Waste do. Normal ganger specialists don't have access to heavy weapons, but orlock do. No need to fiddle with weapon types. I assume this was written by someone who didn't know any better.
 
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This is all hypothetical.
It's a ton of work to make it cost effective over several campaigns.

Ash Nomads specialists are still Warriors like all Specialists are still the Gang Fighter (Ganger) type so would still treat the long rifle as basic.
Given that they have access to special weapons as well so it is almost a moot point by then unless they add the gunshroud to the "basic" long rifle. When promoting to champion the fighter loses the Wasteland Sniper rule, as you pointed out from the FAQ, so now the long rifle is a special weapon again with a basic and pistols only accessory attached that they have been using just fine for ages.

Yay GW rules....
^ This. Once promoted from Ganger Specialist to Champion, they lose that special rule, and the gun becomes a Special Weapon in their hands, rather than a Basic. But they already have it, and don't lose it or somehow lose the ability to use it. And it doesn't lose any upgrades it already has, but wouldn't be able to gain any new ones that aren't allowed to Special Weapons. Sigh.
 
^ This. Once promoted from Ganger Specialist to Champion, they lose that special rule, and the gun becomes a Special Weapon in their hands, rather than a Basic. But they already have it, and don't lose it or somehow lose the ability to use it. And it doesn't lose any upgrades it already has, but wouldn't be able to gain any new ones that aren't allowed to Special Weapons. Sigh.
Ok, now I got it. Yes, the FAQ has several rulings, where a gang member can keep the gear and still use it, even if it's unavailable to the new type. Thank you.
 
My interpretation is that the Carapace is not covered by the existing statline. You have to decuct the movement and initiatve when you charge. That's based on my reading that the charge is what reduces those two stats.

In terms of putting a gunshroud on the long rifle, I would say absolutely you can. That's why they're listed as a basic weapon imo. It's also very thematic.

Can your upgraded specialist still use that gunshroud? Having learnt a little bit more about rules writing lately, I'd say this is an edgecase that the writers did not address in order to keep the rules brief. I could offer my gues but it would be just that. Good question for an arbitrator to address.