A few questions that I need to know...

[Cobalt_Stargazer]

I say a few, as a returning/almost new player I've probably got dozens, but here's the biggie...

Q. Are the same houses present in all hives (of Necromunda)?

I love the thematic difference of the six houses, but from a practical perspective it seems hard to imagine.

For example, in Hive Primus their are six main houses, but then all the noble houses above. Would they not interbreed? Why would 'Hive City' houses not want to move uphive and displace one or more of the noble houses.

Similarly, if the fluff is about Hive Primus then what goes on elsewhere in other hives? It seems odd that X miles away there's another hive, but with the same exact split of houses (and noble houses)

Likewise, enforcers, pit slaves and all non-house gangs. If these folk are non-house affiliated, how does that work?

And I thought that was just going to be one question. Oops.

Any answers appreciated!

 

[andrewgpaul]

"...
how you could ever hurt me so
I need to know what I've done wrong
and how long it's been going on"

Ahem.

I don't think the 13 Houses (six Hive City houses, the six ( ?) noble houses and House Helmawr) are present in any other hive but the Palatine (except for the PDF and planetary security forces, if you want to think of them as an extension of House Helmawr). I'm sure House Orlock would love to displace House Ulanti and move uphive, but the Noble Houses presumably spend a lot of time and effort keeping their inferiors down (literally, in this case). I imagine the Noble Houses are quite insular. Not inbred, because a population of billions is a big enough gene pool, but they don't want to give any of the plebs down below any link to the Spire if they can help it.

Enforcers are affiliated to House Helmawr, as the ruling House. The Pit Slaves as an in-game gang are escaped from the Merchants' Guild - that does seem to operate between Hives. I think the Guilders we "see" in the Underhive are very low-ranking offshoots, while the Guild as a whole reaches from the Underhive to the Spire, with ever more sumptuously-clad merchants dealing in pit slaves, bulk shipments of machine parts and weapons and exotic off-world luxuries as you move up the Hive. The other non-house gangs either live on the very fringes of society (Ratskins and Scavvies) or are made up of exiles from the Houses (or the descendants of such) - the Redemptionists, for instance. And the "House Gnags", too; they're in the Underhive to carve out a new life, after all; if they were still full House members, they'd be in the Hive City.

 

[Cobalt_Stargazer]

Excellent, that really helps.

I've pretty much stumbled back into Necromunda by accident. I played a Cawdor gang 'The Apocalypse Boys' as part of a very small (4 people) campaign back in the 90s.

Then a few weeks ago my girlfriend found and fell in love with some unpainted Escher models I had kicking around.

Since then I've found this site and been reading over both the NCE and the Confrontation PDFs. I'm hooked again.

 

[spafe]

By and large I would agree with @andrewgpaul with a couple of caveats... namely, that while house cawdor (and it's affilated noble house) might not be present in other hives, there would almost certainly be a very similar one in every hive, at least on necromunda. This is becuase the church of redemption is planet wide, so any hive that doesnt have a more religious sect I could see gaining one by other hives noble houses who are followers setting up influences there (it's an easy way to extent their influence as no-one could argue with the churches being set up).

Other hives might have more or less than the 6+6 under and noble, or have a straight 6 (or other number) (that stretch below and above the hive), but no others will have Helmwars ruling, except maybe as a off shoot of his that 'manages' that hive and reports directly to him as planetary lord.

ratskins, redemptionists and pit slaves would all be present elsewhere, as these are not unified groups, but types of groups that will naturally form in these circumstances. Same for Scavies!

Orlock, Goliath, Delaque and van saar stereotypes are all easily possible in other hives, as the miners, brute workers, information house, and tech house respectivly, and cawdor mentioned above. Escher are the only quirk one that might not be present in other hives, as theirs is a genetic defect that leads to their house identity. However it is a fair assumption that as the primus hive, it is likely the houses there have a lot of influence, so I could easily see an otherwise minor house that has these defects in other hives being supported by the powers of Escher and their noble house as part of their strong beliefs.

Hope that all makes sense, its a really interesting topic!

 

[andrewgpaul]

The Cult of the Redemption are likely to be everywhere, but perhaps not in the numbers found in Hive Primus (Palatine is the name from Confrontation in 1991; showing my age a bit). It could be debatable which came first - are House Cawdor staunch Redemptionists because of the prevalence of the cult in that hive, or are the Redemption only present in large numbers because of the patronage of House Cawdor. Other hives may be more strongly aligned to the cult (because that hive's ruling house(s) are aligned with it) or the hive's authorities may clamp down on it if no major House is well-favoured to it. The particular flavour of Redemptionism could also differ from hive to hive.

Other differences might include Spyrers - do all hives' noble houses follow the same tradition of using expensive imported armours, or do some hives do things differently (you could look at the old-style Brat Gangs as being an alternative culture, where noble house scions "slum it" (in relative terms; they're still bringing one-in-a-million weapons and luxury clothing) among the underhivers and look on Spyrers as coddled tourists.

The number of houses in Hive Primus is only six because there are six skill tables in Necromunda and each house reflects a different one. There's no reason why other hives would have the same number.

Ratskins could be planet-wide (with secret runs along the inter-Hive transport tunnels) or a sub-culture specific to Hive Primus. Likewise, there could be Ash Waste Ratskins, they could be allied with or bitter foes of the nomad gangs.

Basically, Hive Primus takes the population of the entire Earth right now and squeezes them all into a single structure with a footprint about 1 tenth that of the Greater London area. My assumption is that the planet as a whole as a couple of hundred hives, so a total population of about a trillion (10e12). Plenty of room for each hive to be as different as you want.

 

[Deathshadow]

Does anyone know what the Imperial Calendar was with Necromunda? Or was that even covered? I ask because i'm getting ready to try to launch off not only a Necromunda Skirmish game, but also an FFG 40k campaign (DH 1, staggering in Rogue Trader (The Trader's parents are going to be testing him and his command staff by sending them to Primus' Underhive as a Guilder before relinquishing the Black Warrant and ship that gained them their House Status in Tranzor Hive to him/her, a second or third born child), Deathwatch (A Kill Team brought in by the Ordo Xenos member of the Primus Cabal (My own creation) when it becomes apparent that the Imperial Fists are failing to keep the filthy Xenos out of the Underhive), Black Crusade (A mixed group of CSMs and Heretics seeking ancient Archaeotech the Dark Gods showed them that, when combined, can turn the sector into a new Eye of Chaos or Screaming Vortex), and Only War (Necromundan IGs, sent in to the Underhive to deal with Chaos and the Xenos when everything goes to shit down there) after I can build up a staff to ease the burden of running so many games at one time and keeping the combined Discord and Obsidian Portal straight.) All of this Necromundan 'Goodness' will be ran on Roll20.net

 

[andrewgpaul]

I'm pretty sure Necromunda was set "now" (which would have been 995.M41 when the game was released; the "present" in 40k was 39,000 years ahead until 1999, when it stopped), not that it ever referred to anything happening elsewhere in the galaxy. Kal Jericho is apparently the son of Inquisitor Jena Orechiel, but I don't have the relevant Warhammer Monthly comic issues or Exterminatus magazines to see if there's any dates mentioned.

The Imperial Fists' arrival to fight off an Ork invasion - which resulted in the ruined Hive known as The Skull - was retconned from a century or so "ago" to before the Heresy, which buggers up the novel Space Marine, in which the recruiting sergeant mentions being present there as a Scout (and one of the new recruits' great grandfathers, as a PDF trooper).

 

[Cobalt_Stargazer]

Thank you all for the warm response. It's made feel really welcome.

The explanations above have given me some great food for thought. I'm now slowly building up both ideas for my own hive setting, not to mention piles of recycling to make terrain. Thankfully I have a very understanding girlfriend. It's not every night you walk in an old car engine air intake you've found laying by the roadside and get an understanding response!

Hive-wise I'm basing things loosely on my home town (Sheffield, UK). A once industrial powerhouse, now kinda forgotten, kinda being reborn. A mix of industrial wasteland and foreign investment.

I'm looking to leverage in some of the traditional Primus houses, parts of the Confrontation background, plenty of the amazing ideas scattered around these forums and hopefully a few twists of my own.

So, next question then...

Where's the roof? / How high is the ceiling? / Just HOW are hives built?

All variations on the same idea really. This is the one thing I could never get my head around as a teenager and I'm still no wiser! I've been looking all over the internet and there doesn't seem to be a clear answer.

My basic issue is this. The idea of a ruined industrial wasteland with both gothic and cyber-punk themes... I get that. I love that. Likewise the stacked hierachy approach of Metropolis & Blade Runner where noblity lives the 'high' life and the poorest live 'under' society - I'm all in.

However, when you look at any 'Munda terrain setup, whether it's GW or homebrew, something never quite adds up for me. Obviously you can't physically have a roof on a gaming table, it would be unplayable, but I'd still love to know where it's meant to be and how it stays up!

Visualising endless burrow-like hab decks in the style of the walled city of Kowloon feels believable, but the underhive is meant to be awash with chem pits, disused factories and abandoned refineries. So how would such derelict structures and open areas support the trillions above?

I've read of domes and the heat-sink at the centre of each hive, but here's the thing, if hives are unregulated chaotic and largely unplanned constructs, how does such a free for all get on the same page long enough to build a thousand metres high heat-sink or a super-sized dome with enough capacity to support further domes above it?

 

[Cobalt_Stargazer]

Sorry - I should add, I'm sure much of this is discussed elsewhere in these forums. If so, any links to those discussions would be appreciated. I've been working my way through these forums, but I've still got a long way to go.

 

[Deathshadow]

Usually, they come about when one city builds on top of another on Necromunda. Other worlds can vary... And at least one was of a believed (as of 997.M41) to have been made by an extinct Xenos species. The Noble houses hold themselves in place by a system of trading favors, taxing the shit out of the hive houses below them to take about 85-90% of their cash money, and House Guards/PDF (And IG in Helmawr's case).

As for the sizes/heights, they can vary by not only worlds, but individual hives and even hive sections. However, each one is usually about half-again to twice the height of the tallest building to allow IG/SM to fly in them, and most can fit at least Leman Russ tanks down the main streets unless the individual dome has collapsed/underwent building expansions/rebuilding on an individual dome's insides... Then your guess is as good as mine. They are basically giant domes, using a mixture of 'crete and the most durable metals on world. They are literally like a Jenga Tower with the bottom being held by one wood block on the bottom in most cases... Ready to implode with the right stimuli... Or at least have a whole level collapse and claim a whole new Underhive, depending on how they're built.

 

[Deathshadow]

And remember, the Arch/dome is supposedly the strongest manmade structures... And a hive is basically a huge neglected honeycomb of them.

 

[Orngog]

Buckminster Fuller ftw. My own vision is that of a stack/pile of cavernous rooms, each containing many partial floors and mezzanines upon which these buildings are constructed.

In the subject, Baghdad is built on top of ancient Babylon, which was itself a palimpsest on city on city in city. Compare with Majandaro, built around the same time but all at once... In a grid system. Hives are chaotic.

 

[Punktaku]

so.. with domes (rounded ceilings) upon domes... upon domes... what exists in the little voids between domes?

 

[spafe]

what exists in the little voids between domes

Services, Rats, voids, pipework, more rats, chasms, chem slush ready to pour onto whoever breaks the seal, more rats, electrical cables, water pipes, some fancy exoctic birds, someones left shoe, ratskins tribes, scavies, tunnels between domes, heat risers, a few small rodents with long tails, sand, glass, broken bottles and crisp packets, insulation, water vapour, things that eat rats, listening devices, elevators, inter dome travel carts, mines, scaffolding, washing lines, sewage, fuel storage, other forgotten storage space, breeze blocks, and finally Rats.

As a start anyway.

As for domes.... they vary in size but basically pick a city in the world... put it in a snowglobe type structure, that is big (high) enough to have clouds and it's own weather patterns, then take another city, do the same. keep going. As snowglobes have flat bottoms, when you put 3 next to each other, you can balance another on top of those 3. Now imagine thats bolted together (as if you try this with actual snowglobes it'll likely slide off). Then keep building/piling them up. Now imagine that you arnt relying on just those 3 below, but that it has beams and supports spanning out to the next.... 9 around it, so if one of those directly below it was removed (collapses), it can remain where it is. That is how a hive is built. At least, in my head it is, and it follows the rough artwork in the book, makes sense to my engineers logic and fits with the stories (such as the one with hte lamplighter who goes through the insulation/service void into the next dome along).

So for practical tabletop... the stuff you are seeing is but a teenie tiny fraction of the dome, like imagine a single city block in new york, or a ... square mile in london, or whatever. Standing there you'd never see even the slightest hint of the true scale of the city (dome), but you are nevertheless, in that city (dome). If you wanted, you could have a massive wall up one side, or a support column for that dome on your table, but these could easily be a mile high domes.... so it'd jsut sorta, get as high as you wanted to build it, then stop as a flat bit which is where you've taken a cut for your board (so maybe a ft above the rest of your terrain to get the idea across). Just as an idea. And for scale, that support could easily be a ft squared, which is a lot of table space to lose. At some point I really want to do a 'support' which is a ft long but like 4 inches wide, with walkways around it at variouse levels, so it's a big LoS blocker but still has interactions with the rest of the board.

Hope my rambling helps

 

[Punktaku]

@spafe No, your rambling was corrupting.. Now i have an idea for a black game board with a large tube or square column in the middle that represents support. all scenery has to be touching another piece of scenery and it all has to touch the centerpiece. everything else is a drop into darkness and the dome floor far below... so essentially, your playing in the top of the dome instead of the bottom. and who knows what mutations lurk in the darkness below?

 

[Punktaku]

The Hanging City...

vents would go into the voids between domes. Tunnels would actually be hanging under the city, so that would be a danger to anyone using them....

 

[spafe]

Look up... paradise falls I think it's called. It's a campaign setting (one of my favourites), which is basically like hongkong or vegas, but it also has mission rules (very basic) for fighting over the tops of high rise buildings (and falling a looong way down!). I'm pretty sure the rules are in the vault.

 

[Punktaku]

guess i'll have to dive into the Vault then, and check that out.

The hanging city could be an assault on the upper hive... unbeknownst to the majority of the citizens, the heart of the city is attempting to bore through the floor of the dome above (the adamantjne wall?).

Or maybe it's a blister on the underside of a dome.. and the darkness beneath is the void between lower, supporting domes.

In the darkness between three domes hangs Neverland, built upon massive cables strung from dome to dome...

 

[Orngog]

I feel I should point out the spire is something like 25 miles tall, as I recall? There isn't a structure in earth even nearly a mile tall so domes can be a lot smaller than that.

Also, I imagine hives to be something of a palimpsest, built on the ruins of older cities, each of different size and design.

 

[Kitcar]

Domes upon domes, like a mountain of bubbles. this is the only way a hive could persist for eons, it's physics. Promethium sprawl runs between to power the hive. It would reason that three domes meeting would have a inverted curved pyramidal space that would be the hanging hive. Kool.