A few rule questions

Crowbarr

Juve
Feb 23, 2018
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1. Can you buy more than one ammo gubbins for a vehicles big gun?

2. Can you customize big guns? (ie more dakka etc)

3. If you twin link two shootas, they get a sustained fire dice between them, if you upgrade both of them to get "more dakka", they both have one sustained fire dice each, does this then mean that while twin linked, you use 3 sustained fire dice?

4. If you roll 3 sustained fire dice and get two ammo checks, do you check for both or just one? Do you still fire if the 3rd dice isn't an ammo check?

5. If a vehicle is out of control (no driver), can you leap out of it/jump into it at the start of a turn, then move the vehicle? Or does it move before any other movements?

6. Can bikes "rake" people on foot?

7. If hit in the gubbins and you have two ladders, ammo and a wrecking ball, do you roll for each gubbins to see if it is damaged or just one of all of them?

8. If you twin link two identical guns, but they have been upgraded to have different ranges or strengths from one another, can they be twin linked at all?
 

Zeebogie

Ganger
Nov 13, 2016
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1. Yes but each additional one would cost more as the cost of the weapon would go up (same for customized weapons)

2,3,8. Yes, under We can do it Vehicles, p71 of Da yvver book it refers to twin linked weapons being treated as a single weapon, twin linked weapons are only on vehicles so the implication is that you can customize big gun aswell.

4. Ammo roll for each jam and any jams mean no shots are made that turn p23 da roolz

5. Yes, movement is done in any order you like (e. G doesn't have to be vehicles then foot or the other way) you could bard and attempt to gain control however if you fail it will then swerve straight away p44 da roolz drivers and bike riders


6. Yes, page 39 of da roolz second paragraph of Squashing models on foot

7. Roll to randomly select a gubbinz if the hit penetrates p63 da roolz
 
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Ben_S

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On 3, my reading is that, once they're twinlinked, they're treated as one gun for all intents and purposes. So you can upgrade that twin-linked gun to have more dakka (a second sustained fire dice) but you can't upgrade each of the original guns separately.

As for 8, I don't think the writers ever envisaged twin-linking something that had already been upgraded.
 

Zeebogie

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Yep, that's what I meant, didn't write it all that well though (the twin linked count as one weapon covered it all in my mind since you have to buy them as a twin linked gun when I wrote it)
 
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Flamekebab

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I'll be dealing with rules as written because that's basically the only thing we have to go on. You may wish to change these rules for your campaign.
1. Can you buy more than one ammo gubbins for a vehicles big gun?
If you're willing to pay for it. It would cost the same every time. I'm not sure what @Zeebogie is basing the increase on but gubbinz, unlike kustom jobs don't increase the price of fixed weapons, just the vehicle's overall cost.

2. Can you customize big guns? (ie more dakka etc)
Yep - "any vehicle or gun can only be kustomised once between each game" (page 71 of Da Uvver Book).

3. If you twin link two shootas, they get a sustained fire dice between them, if you upgrade both of them to get "more dakka", they both have one sustained fire dice each, does this then mean that while twin linked, you use 3 sustained fire dice?
Page 27 of Da Uvver Book: "Once a pair of gunz are mounted up as a fixed weapon they are treated as a single weapon for ammo rolls, kustomisin’ and everything else."

They're one gun from the point they're linked so no sneaky extra sustained fire dice for you!

4. If you roll 3 sustained fire dice and get two ammo checks, do you check for both or just one? Do you still fire if the 3rd dice isn't an ammo check?
Roll the three dice together, check for any jams you get. If the third dice gives you shots then fire them as normal. @Zeebogie stopped reading too soon as the top of page 24 of Da Roolz covers this ;)

"When you roll a jam then no shots are inflicted from that dice. Other indicated shots from other dice are still valid and are worked out as normal. In addition, you must make a separate Ammo roll for each jam rolled."

5. If a vehicle is out of control (no driver), can you leap out of it/jump into it at the start of a turn, then move the vehicle? Or does it move before any other movements?
There's no set movement order, try grabbing the wheel if you'd like!

6. Can bikes "rake" people on foot?
Raking is a vehicle vs. vehicle thing. You can try squashing them though (@Zeebogie has this one covered (y))

7. If hit in the gubbins and you have two ladders, ammo and a wrecking ball, do you roll for each gubbins to see if it is damaged or just one of all of them?
Pick an item at random - that's the affected item.

8. If you twin link two identical guns, but they have been upgraded to have different ranges or strengths from one another, can they be twin linked at all?
Decide amongst yourselves. There's no canonical answer.
 

Ben_S

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Yep, that's what I meant, didn't write it all that well though (the twin linked count as one weapon covered it all in my mind since you have to buy them as a twin linked gun when I wrote it)
I figured that's what you meant, from your whole answer. But that's actually a no to q. 3, not yes.
 
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Zeebogie

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Yep youre right on 4. @Flamekebab I'd missed that bit so my bad.
For 8. Though there's no way it can occur as twin linked weapons have to be bought together so they're always a single upgraded gun
And basis for 1. Is from the description of loads ammo in the gubbinz section p61 of da roolz, refers to Loads ammo being attached to a weapon "A weapon with loads ammo ignores its first failed ammo roll" all other gubbinz are referenced as being attached to the vehicle somewhere in their description
And yeah my bad on that one for 3.
 
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Ben_S

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For 8. Though there's no way it can occur as twin linked weapons have to be bought together so they're always a single upgraded gun
I don't see anything saying that. Da Uvver book, p. 27, says they must be paid for separately, which if anything means not bought together. I certainly think you could take a shoota from your stash, and buy another shoota, in order to twin-link them on your vehicle.

So, this does raise the question as to what happens if you have a kustomised shoota in your stash.

Possibly you could argue that a kustomised shoota is no longer 'of the same type' as a regular shoota and can't be twin-linked. That seems a bit harsh though. I'd be happy with allowing them to be linked but losing the benefits of kustomisation.

(It is clear that, once fixed, they're one for kustomisation, so that addresses q. 3.)
 

Ben_S

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And basis for 1. Is from the description of loads ammo in the gubbinz section p61 of da roolz, refers to Loads ammo being attached to a weapon "A weapon with loads ammo ignores its first failed ammo roll" all other gubbinz are referenced as being attached to the vehicle somewhere in their description
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think being attached to a weapon means that the cost of the weapon itself is increased - the extra ammo is still a separate thing.

So, if you have a gun that costs 16, I'd say the first lot of ammo is 4, and a second lot of ammo is still another 4 (rather than being 5, i.e. 25% of 20).
 
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Zeebogie

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Yeah, I'd say both of them will come down to playing groups interpretation. I'd add it to the weapons cost as if you swapped the gun to another vehicle you'd take the ammo with it (logically extra ammo for a harpoon gun wouldn't help a new wavy shoota). As far as I can see that doesn't apply to any other gubbinz as you can't swap them out of a vehicle.
 
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Ben_S

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Can you not swap gubbins, the same as other equipment?

I don't remember it coming up, but having had a quick look, I don't see anything saying you can't.

(p. 70 of Da Uvver Book says you can't swap gubbins from a destroyed vehicle, but that's simply because it's lost. It's not a general prohibition on swapping gubbins - indeed, presumably it wouldn't even need stating if there were one.)
 
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Crowbarr

Juve
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I'd argue that the ammo doesn't add to the weapon cost because it is considered gubbins and can be destroyed if the gubbins is hit (page 61 of da rules). I would however be okay with it being added to the cost of the weapon if the loatsa ammo becomes "fixed weapon" and not "gubbins" on the vehicle damage chart.

It's not a major issue though as I doubt it's going to occur much during our battles, but it's an interesting point to argue none the less.
 
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Zeebogie

Ganger
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True, at the end of the day it's unlikely that more than one loadsa ammo will get bought for a gun anyway since most games are only 5 or so turns long and all the big guns except a rokkit launcher have a 4+ ammo roll anyway (that being said an old gang of mine that had a rokkit launcher with loadsa ammo and more dakka were well feared and still occasionally ran out of ammo)
 

Flamekebab

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And basis for 1. Is from the description of loads ammo in the gubbinz section p61 of da roolz, refers to Loads ammo being attached to a weapon "A weapon with loads ammo ignores its first failed ammo roll" all other gubbinz are referenced as being attached to the vehicle somewhere in their description
It's a gubbinz category item, not a kustom job. It adds to the vehicle cost like any other item of gubbinz.
 

Zeebogie

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Worse: Doesn't the wording [not at home to check] of the Loads of Ammo gubbins just say that the first failed ammo check is ignored? So wouldn't two just mean that that first failed ammo check gets ignored twice, not that you ignore the first two? Hm.
That is a very good point @Aulenback as the Weapon reload for muties specifically says "... Ignore one failed ammo test..." and loadsa ammo specifically says "...first failed ammo test..." so that would imply that you can only have (or there is only a point in having) one loadsa ammo

Can you not swap gubbins, the same as other equipment?

I don't remember it coming up, but having had a quick look, I don't see anything saying you can't...
Yeah I've looked through and you're right there isn't anywhere that says you can't swap between good vehicles only wrecked ones (my bad, it's never come up before same as you) which I guess kinda makes sense since orks aren't really gonna care how it looks, it does still leave the question for loadsa ammo though as it references the weapon cost so if you swapped it between different vehicles and it isn't moved with the same big gun how do you work that out? if you moved it from a eavy shoota to a harpoon gun do you gain 2 teef?
Hence the conclusion I'd reached that it's linked to the weapon but included in the gubbinz category as its only meant for mounted weapons
 
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Ben_S

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I'd assume that you buy 'loads ammo (eavy shoota)' - so you can swap it to a different vehicle/eavy shoota, but not to a harpoon gun. That does leave some unanswered questions if it's a kustomised eavy shoota though.
 

Ben_S

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I wouldn't expect it to increase in price if you later kustomise the weapon. RAW though, it should cost more to buy loadsa ammo for a weapon that is already kustomised - and that, in turn, means you probably shouldn't be able to swap it from an unkustomised weapon to a kustomised one.

For simplicity, I'd be tempted to say (house rule) that it's based on the base weapon cost only.
 

Zeebogie

Ganger
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Yeah id agree that that is the simplest way, probably makes sense too, I mean its not like the meks are giving you a ton of bullets to shoot further or hit harder.

Going on that line of thinking as well IF you did twin link a previously owned and kustomized gun realistically the spanner doing it could just copy it and you could roll on Da Big Day table for no cost (obviously this is a house rule suggestion) to see if the spanner had made a successful twin link or mucked it up e.g a roll of a 1 would mean he buggered the guns and you've got two normal guns twin linked (aka lost the kustomizing) 2-3 means he hasn't finished it yet so you'd have to wait a game and on a 4+ hes managed to copy and you can keep the kustom jobs on the twin linked gun