N18 Advice for getting into Necromunda

[SleepySnek]

Hi there,

So people have been trying to get me out of the Flat a bit more, and part of that has been getting back into Necromunda, and will be doing so with someone else. I've taken it upon myself to do all the hard bits (i.e: glue, paint and write up the lists) for them since I know how much of a wallet drain the hobby can be, but the area I'm having some head scratching over is the lists, and perhaps more pertinently, our gang choices.

I haven't played Necromunda in about fifteen years (and they haven't played a Tabletop Wargame at all in their lives, so it's blind leading the blind over here), so I went with the Gang I used to play - that is to say, Van Saar. Unfortunately, we went though and picked out a gang for them to use yesterday, and they picked out Orlock.

Suffice it to say, I am very aware of how brutal Van Saar shooting can be, and I am distinctly worried about completely crushing them. I'd try to avoid a one sided, wholesale slaughter of them as much as possible, and I am trying to write the lists in such a manner. The problem of course is that it doesn't change that I am more than likely going to horribly, brutally murder their gang in a string of very one sided skirmishes.

So I'm here to ask for advice on this. A prototype of the Orlock Gang has been written up here, while I am going to type out the Van Saar list so far below. I'm open to suggestions and toning down the lists if possible, or I may have to go with another gang. The only problem on that front is of the main six house gangs, the others that interest me are Orlock (which are taken) Delaque and Cawdor (who are going to be a total curbstomp in the opposite direction until Q3 next year). That said, the Van Saar List looks like this right now:

Leader
Combi-Pistol (Laspistol/Plasma Gun), Servo-Claw, Mesh Armor, Armoured Bodyglove

Archeotek Champion
Rad-Beamer, Servo-Claw, Mesh Armor, Armoured Bodyglove, Vascular Cyberteknika (Alpha)

Augmek Champion
Master Crafted Lasgun, Power Knife, Mesh Armor, Armoured Bodyglove

Ganger Specialist
Lasgun, Shock Stave, Mesh Armor, Armoured Bodyglove

Ganger
Lasgun, Shock Stave, Mesh Armor, Armoured Bodyglove

Juve
Las Sub-Carbine, Mesh Armor, Shock Stave, Armoured Bodyglove

Current round of ideas include dropping the Shock Staves on the two Gangers and replacing them with Laspistols, switching the Rad-Beamer on the Archeotek for the Spider Rig (and converting the model to give it proper Doc Oc arms) and the Leader's loadout is in a bit of a flux right now.

EDIT - Quick Jump to the revised Orlock Gang List post.

EDIT #2 - Quick Jump to the revised Van Saar Gang List post.

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

The lists both look balanced against each other. As long as there is enough terrain you should be fine.

There is definitely stuff in both lists you could drop for more bodies.

I'm more experienced with orlocks so I'd generally say dropping the stub gun and knife on everyone and invest in more gangers with autoguns or shotguns (combat or normal both are good).

I'd also swap the sawn off on the wrecker for a stubgun or autopistol for more attacks in close combat.

I'd also swap the combi weapon on the leader for a regular bolter. Or possibly give him a bolt pistol and chainsword and drop the rest.

 

[MrAndersson]

The one way Orlock can compete with Van Saar is to use the fact that they have got a superior weapon selection in their house list. Boltguns and grenade launchers are your main tools.

Also, I second what PossiblyNerdyRob said about dropping excess weapons.

 

[Scraplet]

Both of those gangs will match up fairly nicely, your gang is nowhere close to the abusive levels of shooting that can come out of van saars. i think there is a lot of wasted points here and there, in both gangs. But they look fairly fun, I am surprised by the lack of grenades, because yeah everyone loves grenades.

 

[SleepySnek]

The lists both look balanced against each other. As long as there is enough terrain you should be fine.

There is definitely stuff in both lists you could drop for more bodies.

I'm more experienced with orlocks so I'd generally say dropping the stub gun and knife on everyone and invest in more gangers with autoguns or shotguns (combat or normal both are good).

I'd also swap the sawn off on the wrecker for a stubgun or autopistol for more attacks in close combat.

I'd also swap the combi weapon on the leader for a regular bolter. Or possibly give him a bolt pistol and chainsword and drop the rest.

So while I'm working on an updated version of the Orlock list, I do have a few things I'd like to ask having not touched Necromunda in a while. Namely (and this why everyone has the Stub Pistols and Knives) Ammo Checks and Unarmed Combat. Because I'm typically looking these as bad things that can happen.

• A failed Ammo Roll means I can no longer use the weapon. Arming them with only one weapon seems a tad dangerous, as if the weapon runs out of ammo, it can no longer be used - and if they have only one weapon, then they're basically useless for the rest of the game (as opposed to Necromunda Classic, where everyone got a Knife for free).
• Speaking of that last point, Unarmed Combat also seems bad, as it basically means trying to punch people with fisticuffs. Which is typically bad and they're likely going to be stuck there until someone falls over. On the other hand, I did hear somewhere that Pistols can be used as Melee weapons now. If that's true, I can at least drop the Fighting Knives since that means the Stub Pistols cover the same job as well as acting as reserve weapons, and dropping the Shock Staves for Laspistols in the VS list may not be a silly idea after all.

Also, Merry Christmas BTW.

 

[Vonvilkee]

So while I'm working on an updated version of the Orlock list, I do have a few things I'd like to ask having not touched Necromunda in a while. Namely (and this why everyone has the Stub Pistols and Knives) Ammo Checks and Unarmed Combat. Because I'm typically looking these as bad things that can happen.

• A failed Ammo Roll means I can no longer use the weapon. Arming them with only one weapon seems a tad dangerous, as if the weapon runs out of ammo, it can no longer be used - and if they have only one weapon, then they're basically useless for the rest of the game (as opposed to Necromunda Classic, where everyone got a Knife for free).
• Speaking of that last point, Unarmed Combat also seems bad, as it basically means trying to punch people with fisticuffs. Which is typically bad and they're likely going to be stuck there until someone falls over. On the other hand, I did hear somewhere that Pistols can be used as Melee weapons now. If that's true, I can at least drop the Fighting Knives since that means the Stub Pistols cover the same job as well as acting as reserve weapons, and dropping the Shock Staves for Laspistols in the VS list may not be a silly idea after all.

Also, Merry Christmas BTW.

I played old necromunda too so here are some pointers using references.

Failed ammo rolls are not that big of a deal depending on the stat. You have the opportunity to reload by spending an action! Roll against ammo again if you succeed the gun is operational again (no back ups needed!) You can even spend both your actions in the new game doing this. Yeah 6+ bolters might want a back up but 4+shotguns are prolly only out a turn or so. Scarce is like old necromunda out of ammo is for the battle no reload action while plentiful auto passes! Think of plentiful as having weapon reloads from back in the day.

As to the knife thing unarmed these days is equivalent to having the free knife back in the day. Don't worry about a melee weapon unless arming with a pistol to gain extra attacks. Combat is also way different and unless you're toolled up for it you'll want to avoid it and can try to fallback then shoot reasonably well.

Save the creds for bodies with single guns especially to learn redundancy is good and leads to better learning.

 

[SleepySnek]

Failed ammo rolls are not that big of a deal depending on the stat. You have the opportunity to reload by spending an action! Roll against ammo again if you succeed the gun is operational again (no back ups needed!) You can even spend both your actions in the new game doing this. Yeah 6+ bolters might want a back up but 4+shotguns are prolly only out a turn or so. Scarce is like old necromunda out of ammo is for the battle no reload action while plentiful auto passes! Think of plentiful as having weapon reloads from back in the day.

Huh, I genuinely didn't know you could spend actions to do that.

As to the knife thing unarmed these days is equivalent to have the free knife back in the day. Don't worry about a melee weapon unless arming with a pistol to gain extra attacks. Combat is also way different and unless you're toolled up for it you'll want to avoid it and can try to fallback then shoot reasonably well.

Ah, so this is Games Workshop wording things in weird manners. Alright then, that suddenly shaves some points off both lists I can use to spend on things I actually want.

Thank you for the pointers. While I'm updating the lists, should I put the updated lists up top in the Original Post, or post them after someone else's response?

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

Huh, I genuinely didn't know you could spend actions to do that.



Ah, so this is Games Workshop wording things in weird manners. Alright then, that suddenly shaves some points off both lists I can use to spend on things I actually want.

Thank you for the pointers. While I'm updating the lists, should I put the updated lists up top in the Original Post, or post them after someone else's response?

I'd post them as a reply!

 

[SleepySnek]

I'd post them as a reply!

Cool. So here's the revised Orlock list based on everyone's feedback. I still have plans to get to the VS list, but at the moment with HoA lacking an entry in the Gang Builder, I'm having to work on it in an Excel spreadsheet and by hand. And I'm not that great at math.

Speaking of the Gang Builder, an oddity with the Orlock list is that apparently I have to buy their Mesh Armor now (i.e: no free armor). Is that correct as of HoI, or is this something that just hasn't been updated into the builder and I actually have more Credits to spend?

 

[Taxidermied]

Yup pay for armour separately now in the House books. You can always skip it on gangers to afford more guns or another body. Was the bolt pistol on the leader on purpose or is it meant to be a bolt gun? If pistol I’d swap it for plasma as you get so much more for 5 credits increase. I’d drop the wreckers maul, they ideally want flails or chainswords to help them hit.

 

[almic85]

The two lists so far look fairly balanced if only because they are not “optimised” in terms of points.

For the Van Saar list I would t bother giving any of them close combat weapons and would prefer to spend the points on upgrading the champions lasgun to a better special weapon. Plasma is your best bang for your buck, but some of the others are good fun even if they are not “optimum”.

For the Orlocks I would still be dropping all of the back up stub pistols. The two champions also don’t need close combat weapons, though it’s not bad on the arms master who is going to be in closer. I would be spending the spare credits on trying to upgrade the autoguns to boltguns where you can and upgrading the dual pistol ganger to having a basic weapon.

For the two gangs you have picked even though Van Saar are supposed to be the most shooty gang you might find that Orlocks armed with boltguns and grenade launchers may actually end up being better shooters. Orlock close combat is usually saved for counter charging rather than trying to get into combat and they are unlikely to be needing that against Van Saar.

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

Cool. So here's the revised Orlock list based on everyone's feedback. I still have plans to get to the VS list, but at the moment with HoA lacking an entry in the Gang Builder, I'm having to work on it in an Excel spreadsheet and by hand. And I'm not that great at math.

Speaking of the Gang Builder, an oddity with the Orlock list is that apparently I have to buy their Mesh Armor now (i.e: no free armor). Is that correct as of HoI, or is this something that just hasn't been updated into the builder and I actually have more Credits to spend?

Yeah the house of books removed free armour because it was a weird interaction later on.

Looks much more efficient with less wasted creds. I'd echo giving wreckers cc weapons that give a bonus to hit and I'd drop all the back up stuff (pistol and power maul) on the grenade launcher champ. He definitely doesn't want to be close and if he gets charged he's going to die and if he goes out of ammo the stub gun doesn't add utility.

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

The two lists so far look fairly balanced if only because they are not “optimised” in terms of points.

For the Van Saar list I would t bother giving any of them close combat weapons and would prefer to spend the points on upgrading the champions lasgun to a better special weapon. Plasma is your best bang for your buck, but some of the others are good fun even if they are not “optimum”.

For the Orlocks I would still be dropping all of the back up stub pistols. The two champions also don’t need close combat weapons, though it’s not bad on the arms master who is going to be in closer. I would be spending the spare credits on trying to upgrade the autoguns to boltguns where you can and upgrading the dual pistol ganger to having a basic weapon.

For the two gangs you have picked even though Van Saar are supposed to be the most shooty gang you might find that Orlocks armed with boltguns and grenade launchers may actually end up being better shooters. Orlock close combat is usually saved for counter charging rather than trying to get into combat and they are unlikely to be needing that against Van Saar.

Although wreckers can provide some excellent pressure to make the Van Saar change target priority.

 

[SleepySnek]

For the Van Saar list I would t bother giving any of them close combat weapons and would prefer to spend the points on upgrading the champions lasgun to a better special weapon. Plasma is your best bang for your buck, but some of the others are good fun even if they are not “optimum”.

Okay, funny fact about this one - it's supposed to be a Long Las, a weapon I'd associate as a VS weapon. He's basically supposed to be a Sniper. Why not just buy the Long Las? Because for whatever reason, the Long Las isn't available as a special weapon for VS from the outset, so he's stuck to a Lasgun as a "Counts As" for now. I've always found this to be a weird choice personally, as the rest of the special weapons are prohibitively expensive (i.e: none of them cost under 100 credits as of HoA since the Combi-Las weapons got nerfed into being very expensive Pistols).

Guess what I'm buying first trip to the trading post I get?

Yeah the house of books removed free armour because it was a weird interaction later on.

Just double checking that one, it did seem a bit odd.

That said, after selling the Power Maul and Stub Gun I've got about 40 credits to play with. I don't think I can hire a new Ganger, and I'm not terribly sure what to spend those on. So I have 40 credits free basically.

As for the VS, they're going to take a bit longer to rework - currently the Gang Builder hasn't updated for HoA, so I'm having to use an Excel Spreadsheet and dodgy math to figure everything out.

 

[PossiblyNerdyRob]

Okay, funny fact about this one - it's supposed to be a Long Las, a weapon I'd associate as a VS weapon. He's basically supposed to be a Sniper. Why not just buy the Long Las? Because for whatever reason, the Long Las isn't available as a special weapon for VS from the outset, so he's stuck to a Lasgun as a "Counts As" for now. I've always found this to be a weird choice personally, as the rest of the special weapons are prohibitively expensive (i.e: none of them cost under 100 credits as of HoA since the Combi-Las weapons got nerfed into being very expensive Pistols).

Guess what I'm buying first trip to the trading post I get?



Just double checking that one, it did seem a bit odd.

That said, after selling the Power Maul and Stub Gun I've got about 40 credits to play with. I don't think I can hire a new Ganger, and I'm not terribly sure what to spend those on. So I have 40 credits free basically.

As for the VS, they're going to take a bit longer to rework - currently the Gang Builder hasn't updated for HoA, so I'm having to use an Excel Spreadsheet and dodgy math to figure everything out.

Swap one of the autoguns on the gunner to a combat shotgun

 

[SleepySnek]

Swap one of the autoguns on the gunner to a combat shotgun

There we go, that should have updated now to account for the Combat Shotgun.

As for the VS, the good news is I have updated the list and taken into account the advice from people above (I've saved enough points to be able to squeeze in two extra Gangers). The bad news is we're still waiting on HoA to be updated into the Gang Roster so I have a version to share (and can start assigning skills, something the Spreadsheet isn't very good at doing), so that could be a while.

 

[almic85]

Quick heads up for the Orlock as well that the leader and champions get both a starting skill and a starting name.

The names aren’t great but there are a few interesting combinations hiding amongst them.

 

[SleepySnek]

Hi guys,

We're back in business! I've been tinkering with the Orlock list a bit more, and I've finally been able to put up the revised Van Saar list! You can examine that last one here.