Airing the possibility for NNCE/NCE20+

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Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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Changed my vote from d to b as it seems to have a wider appeal (and better probability of success) and I'd rather fix the core rules before we build upon them with a new campaign system. For me it's more of a matter of doing b before c than doing one or the other though, as both are eventually needed.
Actually, I'd like to go core rules -> weapon/fighter profiles -> scenarios -> core campaign system -> extra stuff (hanger-ons, hired guns, alliances, random events, tactic cards, etc. as optional rules)

The great thing about option b is that we already have a better starting point than GW's collection of books thanks to TopsyKretts' work on his compilation.
 

Pierric

Gang Champion
Jan 22, 2020
337
1,003
168
Berry, France
You tempted successfully to change the vote...

Hello Topsykretts.

With your permission, that's because you allowed it. ;)

You are the project leader. As such, you should never have submitted the core of your change project to a vote. As someone stated earlier, this is the very recipe for a disaster.

Your project definition is very clear :

I'm invested in N18 and want to improve the new edition.

So that's not to be voted. What's to be decided is how you convince people to join you and create a work team, how many milestones you want to define, what is your planned schedule and how you divide the tasks within the work team. Once you have defined work review frequency and how to perform them, you can start working on the N18 improved edition, which is the very project you want, and not another one.
 
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cardyfreak

Executive Officer in charge of Radishes
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
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Sep 15, 2012
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yaktribe.games
I always hoped to develop a system where weapons needed certain stats to be able to use them. For example, a plasma weapon with the new fighter stats would need high T (those things hurt when they vent), Intelligence (difficult to use), and Willpower (you know it’s going to blow at some point...), and this system would promote upgrading different stats.
Adds another layer of complexity to the maelstrom though, but perhaps the idea could be useful at some point. Or not :LOL:(y)
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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I always hoped to develop a system where weapons needed certain stats to be able to use them. For example, a plasma weapon with the new fighter stats would need high T (those things hurt when they vent), Intelligence (difficult to use), and Willpower (you know it’s going to blow at some point...), and this system would promote upgrading different stats.
If I were to design my own game, I'd do something like that instead of artificial limitations like "<fighter_type> can only be equipped with weapons from <weapon_list>". Heavy weapons would require Strength, tech weapons would require Intelligence, etc.
 

Ben_S

Hive Lord
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Honored Tribesman
Jul 26, 2015
5,867
10,038
208
Southampton, UK
Guess I'm just curious if NCE folks want to support GWs new mini's like pets and brutes or just happy with a stable game that works...

There are two potential things that people could do with NCE:
1. Try to change the core rules, e.g. adopt alternating activations.
2. Add in some new weapons types, pets, brutes, etc.

While 1 is quite a bit of work, 2 should be fairly straightforward really.

Changed my vote from d to b as it seems to have a wider appeal

I appreciate this isn't the whole of what you say, but I wanted to comment on one oddity of this bit.

We find out what has wide appeal if everyone votes for their personal preference. If everyone instead starts voting for what they think has wide appeal, there's a danger that the winner of the vote doesn't actually have wide appeal, but is falsely believed to have it (for instance, because it's the preference of a vocal minority).
 
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Crazy Ivan

Gang Hero
Nov 5, 2019
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I appreciate this isn't the whole of what you say, but I wanted to comment on one oddity of this bit.

We find out what has wide appeal if everyone votes for their personal preference. If everyone instead starts voting for what they think has wide appeal, there's a danger that the winner of the vote doesn't actually have wide appeal, but is falsely believed to have it (for instance, because it's the preference of a vocal minority).
For this reason, I'm sticking to my original vote of C. I prefer it both because I think there's a great chance it could be completed, because I think it will improve the game greatly already, will allow me to play with GW's "new toys" without needing to wait for the N20CE rules to be adapted to include them, and because I think it will be easiest to convince others to try the new campaign over a whole new version of the game.

That said, I do like the enthusiasm you all have have for going beyond just a campaign, and I'll be watching with interest if that's what it turns out to be, as many of the ideas here do sound very good.
 

JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
1,155
1,503
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Saint-Petersburg, Russia
But how did I become leader? The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Necromunda from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur TopsyKretts, was to carry Necromunda to a higher better standard.
I'd say that you and whoever was helping you out with rules compilation of N17+ have the most experience with current GW game and should be leading the project. If we were going with NCE upgrade, then I'd vouch for people who were involved in making NCE.

Also it seems like you got pretty high from all the sump's fumes and now see ladies rising from lakes of water (no such thing in the underhive, sorry). And as popular saying goes, "In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Sump look to the sumpiest madman to show the way."
 

JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
1,155
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Saint-Petersburg, Russia
If we are (hopefully) going with the remake of N20, we definitely need to start with simple testing ground: equal gang ratings, a shootout, whoever stays on the battlefield wins, no tactic cards or skills. Then I think the priority should go something like this:
  1. Make useless stats useful for fighting (Willpower and Leadership).
    • Possible suggestions: Willpower could be used for target priority instead of Cool; Leadership could be used to prevent bottling.
  2. General nerfs to shooting
    • Motivate players to be on the move. Implement a running bonus of some sort that provides defense for advancing fighters against shooting. Perhaps a nerf, or even removal of "Aim(Basic)" is needed, since +1 makes a huge difference in D6 system. A lot of beautiful scenery can't be fully utilized for games simply because in current system you need a 100% LOS blockers on the battlefield to get anywhere, otherwise you will get shot on approach.
    • Increase probabilty of ammo checks being triggered for all weapons. Current 1/6 is just too small: if your fighter shoots every round, then statistically they might run out by round 6 . From my general experience by 6-th round the game is already decided.
    • Nerf blasts by removing ability to target ground (perhaps making exception for hand grenades to give them utility). Allowing to target the ground, while thematic, is a nightmare to balance and would inevitably turn into a word salad if tried.
    • Fix all gamey aspects of target priority, stray shots and LOS. It should not be beneficial to miss on purpose to have an easier time to hit someone with stray shots. It should not be possible to cheese the system by manipulating shooter's vision arc.
  3. General buffs to melee
    • Get rid of 1" rule, it brings nothing to the game and is just archaic at this point.
    • Make it possible to engage from pinned state.
    • It should be possible to get into melee without tons of LOS blocking terrain, tactic cards or skills.
After all this is done we could get to more advanced stuff like correctly pricing fighters (looking at you goliath/van saar gangers), equipment, weapons, etc.
 

Ledward

Ganger
Jun 6, 2017
84
88
33
Belgium
It is indeed way to easy to score hits in the current state of the game. Might be an idea to change short range bonuses to long range disadvantages. Less lucky pot shots.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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We find out what has wide appeal if everyone votes for their personal preference. If everyone instead starts voting for what they think has wide appeal, there's a danger that the winner of the vote doesn't actually have wide appeal, but is falsely believed to have it (for instance, because it's the preference of a vocal minority).
That's the issue with plurality voting, it encourages tactical voting to avoid one's least preferred outcome.
If we could use a Condorcet method for forum polls, that would be better.
 
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TopsyKretts

Hive Guilder
Tribe Council
Dec 29, 2017
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The vote is still going, but let's settle it today? I forgot what limit I set. Then we continue with the most popular option. And hope it's not a tie! (roll-off? 🤪)
 

JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
1,155
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Saint-Petersburg, Russia
The vote is still going, but let's settle it today? I forgot what limit I set. Then we continue with the most popular option. And hope it's not a tie! (roll-off? 🤪)
This is not really a vote (for that you'd have to make it a global poll for forum, not just one thread). I think it is more of a info gathering procedure on who would want to participate in a project. After all, it will be initiative of a small dev team (only a handful people will actually write main bulk rules and put to a vote few key questions), so it falls down to whatever you pick really.

When I made a custom N17+ rulebook our group, we didn't have the vote. I just warned people that I plan to homebrew the crap out of GW ruleset, because I felt like doing that would improve experience for everyone and did exactly that. Obviously I had help and a lot of it got changed through playtesting and players pointing out bad rulewriting/overpowered choices, but most of the work was done by a few people, not the entire group. I think it is the same here.
 
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CaptainDangerous

Executive Officer in charge of Fraggles
Staff member
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Oct 30, 2016
3,918
12,806
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Durham, uk
There’s no time limit (I didn’t set one), when you are ready to move to the next big question, just give me a new list of answers and I’ll edit the poll! 🙂
 
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