N18 All them walmart overseer leaders

What is the ultimate leader status symbol?

  • Walmart Overseer Skill

  • Boltgun

  • Chainsword

  • Meltagun

  • Grenade Launcher

  • (Power) Sword

  • (Power) Axe

  • Plasma Pistol

  • Bolt Pistol

  • las/auto/stub pistol


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TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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This goes out to all you young'uns starting a new gang. To those of you who only give your leader a las pistol. This will show you a hallmark of Necromunda, take a trip through memory lane.

The Leader in your gang is the best fighter, the boss, the authority. And this is always reflected by their equipment. A juve or even a ganger is poor and have no respect. They haven't earned the right to spam plasma guns or grenade launchers! But the Leader has. Here are some examples of Leaders, which those of us who have played Necromunda for more than 3 years will recognize:


Look at those! A Goliath with meltagun. A Van Saar with Chainsword. An Orlock with Power axe and boltguns. These powerful weapons are status symbols that implies rank. No ganger should have such weaponry, particularly not if the leader doesn't have an even more impressive weapon.

This is mainly a rant towards the countless discussions of "starting a gang..." where the leader is given piss poor weapons. While some exceptions can be accepted, for example some sneaky cult leader using deception to rise to power, this is not the norm! Even if the Leader stays in the back out of harms way, it should still have the best weapons to be prepared for any situation. The Leader is the symbol of your gang's wealth and respect. If your leader has shitty weapons, your gang give a shitty impression as well.

So your leader got Overseer? So what!
 
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Mcnabb

Ganger
Sep 28, 2018
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Bournemouth
I had those!, I remember converting the pointing escher to give her a powerfist. It looked awsome (Although it was a space marine powerfist and looked insanely large on the model so i had to add servos.

However as you are refering to there are a number of models there very badly equiped for a leader,
1) Cawdor, Chainsword + Auto Pistol, (I have seen the underslung bolter)
2) Vansaar Laspistol + Autogun, (Mine was converted to plasma gun)
3) Escher Sword + Auto pistol (There was 1 leader model equiped with two swords)
4) Escher Laspistol (Ok she does have a bolter underslung and mine also had a Powerfist and a lasgun)

Of all my gangs (7 gangs atm) only one gang uses overseer, (Cawdor) and this is because it really is the only use of the Cawdor leader he sucks big fat hairy ones. Mine is currently equiped with a cult icon, an stub pistol and overseer (Similar to the one below)

The rest don't use it because the actual model has a use, Escher good close combat, Goliath amazing close combat, Orlock (Ok mine is dead but good shooting and tough!, Vansaar amazing shot, GSC mind control!)

All the other gangs
Escher leader: spring up
Goliath leader: Nerves of steel,
Orlock leader: (dead but the leading champion has Nerves of steel)
Vansaar leader: Fast shot,
Genstealer leader mind control
Venarator Goliath build: Bezerker,

The cult leader of Cawdor is almost useless, the only thing he's any good for is overseering. He cannot proc mentor because he sucks balls at taking people out, he could do inspiring but half the time he's the one thats broken as he has worse cool than the others! Regroup? It is so situational, Iron will, (Ok fairly good... but since i always outnumber my opponents, it's not always needed, Commanding Presence.... again not needed that + Cult Icon a bit of overkill.)

His champions are better fighters, and the number of peons he has make them better cannon fodder, so i sit him at the back directing the waves of fanatics to their pointless deaths. I should also add my Cult adept for GSC only has a familar mesh and a shockstaff but that's only because that all the model has probably going to equip a pistol soon.

full.jpg
 

TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
Of all my gangs (7 gangs atm) only one gang uses overseer, (Cawdor) and this is because it really is the only use of the Cawdor leader he sucks big fat hairy ones. Mine is currently equiped with a cult icon, an stub pistol and overseer (Similar to the one below)
Doesn't matter! I'm not arguing usefulness. This isn't 40k math hammer, min-max or WAAC. This is your leader and should always be equipped as such. A chainsword or boltgun are boss weapons symbolizing authority and leadership in your gang. A poor leader symbolizes a poor gang.

I have a Goliath Leader with Overseer, still equipped with a stub cannon and a freakin power hammer! Not because it's all that useful in combination with Overseer, but because this is the boss!
 
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=Angel=

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Oct 3, 2016
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Doesn't matter! I'm not arguing usefulness. This isn't 40k math hammer, min-max or WAAC. This is your leader and should always be equipped as such. A chainsword or boltgun are boss weapons symbolizing authority and leadership in your gang. A poor leader symbolizes a poor gang.

I have a Goliath Leader with Overseer, still equipped with a stub cannon and a freakin power hammer! Not because it's all that useful in combination with Overseer, but because this is the boss!
You know what else symbolises authority and leadership?
A lackey immediately improving performance by 100% when you glance in their direction.
Arriving to a battlefield unarmored with only a pistol in its holster and never drawing it.

I buy Goliath not respecting a leader who doesn't have the biggest pigsticker/hand cannon and perhaps some Khorne cults. Maybe Eschers. But the rest of the gangs aren't orks. Seems to me that if a gang leader has to carry a big weapon to inspire confidence, maybe he's not a very good leader. Maybe your Goliath can't attract the talent he needs to effectively use that powerhammer or stubcannon. Maybe he can but he doesn't trust them to use them, or maybe they won;t follow his orders without a constant threat of force.

If you want herohammer, houserule overseer to do something else.
 

Mcnabb

Ganger
Sep 28, 2018
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Bournemouth
I buy Goliath not respecting a leader who doesn't have the biggest pigsticker/hand cannon and perhaps some Khorne cults. Maybe Eschers. But the rest of the gangs aren't orks. Seems to me that if a gang leader has to carry a big weapon to inspire confidence, maybe he's not a very good leader. Maybe your Goliath can't attract the talent he needs to effectively use that powerhammer or stubcannon. Maybe he can but he doesn't trust them to use them, or maybe they won;t follow his orders without a constant threat of force.

If you want herohammer, houserule overseer to do something else.
I do stand with Topsy on most other gangs, i belive it is situationally in keeping for Delaque and possibly Vansaar to use overseer, but for the most part:

We nerfed overseer in our campaign anyway as a house rule you cannot activate and overseer someone you activated with and have to take a leadership test otherwise it fails, making it only really usefull for Cawdor.

Goliath Repsect Strength so big badass up front
Orlock Respect Bravery so tough badass up front
Escher Well they will run at the drop of a hat so it's a good idea to have your leader in the thick of it
Vansaar respect inteligence (but your leader is also your best shot but i guess keeping in theme he could get away with being a behind the scenes commander but not really useful)
Delaque, (Sneaky little buggers) as i said i can kind of see them using overseer but mostly i like the idea of them being assassins taking snipped shots from a distance or upclose and webbing
Cawdor.... Send my minons to burn the heretics! (Oddly enough one of my favorite gangs despite being horribly and horrifically outgunned,) Who ever threw cawdoor together clearly was drinking, champions who are crack shots but fold like cheap suits in close combat, a leader who cannot do anything for anyone except boss people about, i will say the house weapon polearm is my favorite, scatter, purguation and emperor's wrath are all amazing, untill the enemy charges you then you are screwed.
 

TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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You know what else symbolises authority and leadership?
A lackey immediately improving performance by 100% when you glance in their direction.
Arriving to a battlefield unarmored with only a pistol in its holster and never drawing it.

I buy Goliath not respecting a leader who doesn't have the biggest pigsticker/hand cannon and perhaps some Khorne cults. Maybe Eschers. But the rest of the gangs aren't orks. Seems to me that if a gang leader has to carry a big weapon to inspire confidence, maybe he's not a very good leader. Maybe your Goliath can't attract the talent he needs to effectively use that powerhammer or stubcannon. Maybe he can but he doesn't trust them to use them, or maybe they won;t follow his orders without a constant threat of force.

If you want herohammer, houserule overseer to do something else.
Take a look at imperial guard. Most units have easily identified leaders based on their weaponry. A commissar will often have a bolt pistol, power sword or similar. Other sergeants and officers have at minimum las pistol and chainsword. Very few units have leaders with same weaponry as the standard members. The higher up you go in rank, the more expensive and fancy weaponry is carried.

I can list up countless characters with excellent leader capacity with powerful/unique weaponry.

Same goes for Eldar, Space Marines, Chaos++ and of course Orks as you mention.
 
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Mcnabb

Ganger
Sep 28, 2018
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Bournemouth
Ok, if you have a cheap gang, a cheap leader is in order. But don't you dare handing out flamers and meltas to your gangers!
I don't hand out melters to my cannon fodder! The absolute best they can hope for is a blunderbuss and thats only if i have a spare on.
(Or the incendry grenades i strap to the suicidal juves who's sole role is to charge in and detonate themselves amongst the heretics)

Occationally a champion will get a crossbow, or a flamer.

There are many examples in 40k of back seat commanders:

Eldar farseers/warlocks used to just have a staff and maybe a shurkin pistol, you would rarely ever pull them into combat, (they would die alot if you did that)

Imperial guard sargents used to have the standard weaponary or a pistol and chainsword, (this was never really an 'upgrade' just diffrent weapons, usually your specialist carried the heavier weapon (Ie melta / flamer / grenade launcher)
While you are right the commisar's used to have a bolt pistol, that was only used to shoot their own men when they started to run away.

Magus: Staff and nothing else

I'm not saying Necromunda has to represent this but i feel you don't need to give your leader all the top gear, I wouldn't expect my leader to be carrying the heavy weapon into battle even though it's the most expensive. If i get carapice armour, it's more than likley being given to my shock troops rather than my commander, (Unless my commander is part of my shock troops)

If you take my current Escher gang,

My leader equiped with Powersword, Needle pistol and lasgun + Mesh
I have a Ganger equiped with Needle Rifle, Telescopic sight, + Stiletto Knife + Needle Pistol + ChemSynth + Photo Goggles + Smoke Grenade + Flak

Now my leader isn't my sniper (Infact due to eye injury she's got 5+ BS), For the most part she has no need for the photogoggles or for the telescopic site, however from your reasoning i should give her, those + the Chemsynth and the smoke grenade just because she's the boss and give my (2+ bs sniper) just a lasgun because she's not the leader. Now while i know the boss could say, "Hey little one give me yourstuff or else" An effective leader would say, Well your a better shot than me you run up their cover yourself in smoke and start shooting people. Mean while I'll sneak around the back with a few juves and we will supprise them.
 

TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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Backseat commanders carry impressive weapons too!
  • Eldrad's staff is a symbol of authority no standard eldar infantry is allowed to carry.
  • The pistol and chainsword are symbols of authority. The chainsword is an excellent leader weapon in Necromunda.
  • Regardless of who the commissar shoots, it is a symbol of rank compared to the standard laspistol or lasgun.
  • The Magus' staff is a symbol of authority no regular cult member is allowed to carry.
For your Escher leader, power sword and needle pistol (with lasgun on top!) are excellent boss weapons. It's perfectly reasonable to give another gang member a needle rifle. Needle is needle, the leader's pistol is not necessarily outranked by rifle/gun of the same type. Ref space marine sergeants can have bolt pistols while the rest of the unit has boltguns. Preferably you'd give the ChemSynth to the leader, but that's not really important. A weapon may be more effective rules wise or cost more from the trading post. I'm more interested in the "symbolic" value of the weaponry from a traditional view of the game/setting.

I'm not advocating exact science here, and you can surely find many border cases like you did. I can't draw a definite line, but I still know a leader with las pistol is all wrong!
 

Mcnabb

Ganger
Sep 28, 2018
83
70
28
Bournemouth
Backseat commanders carry impressive weapons too!
  • Eldrad's staff is a symbol of authority no standard eldar infantry is allowed to carry.
  • The pistol and chainsword are symbols of authority. The chainsword is an excellent leader weapon in Necromunda.
  • Regardless of who the commissar shoots, it is a symbol of rank compared to the standard laspistol or lasgun.
  • The Magus' staff is a symbol of authority no regular cult member is allowed to carry.
For your Escher leader, power sword and needle pistol (with lasgun on top!) are excellent boss weapons. It's perfectly reasonable to give another gang member a needle rifle. Needle is needle, the leader's pistol is not necessarily outranked by rifle/gun of the same type. Ref space marine sergeants can have bolt pistols while the rest of the unit has boltguns. Preferably you'd give the ChemSynth to the leader, but that's not really important. A weapon may be more effective rules wise or cost more from the trading post. I'm more interested in the "symbolic" value of the weaponry from a traditional view of the game/setting.

I'm not advocating exact science here, and you can surely find many border cases like you did. I can't draw a definite line, but I still know a leader with las pistol is all wrong!

* Eldrad isn't the only farseer, some of the others went into battle with nothing except a sword (I think it was a power sword but all eldar had powerswords even the rank and file) (See picture below) .
* Agreed (unless it's a close combat team, then it would be like giving your close comabt sargent a lasgun while everyone else has chainswords and laspistols) in my view it was idiotic to 'upgrade' you don't see platoon commanders armed with only a pistol going into battle zones not since the 2nd world war just leave them with a lasgun, Guards are cannon fodder anyway regardless of rank, (sargents had survived 1 battle perhaps)
* Agreed also they had the snazzy uniforms, but they also weren't the leaders, they were their to keep order (they were more champions than leaders) Also in some cases guard commaders had little, (See image below the farseer)
* My magus has a Shockstaff can be carried by anyone really but i get your point, but i think the old wargear card it was called a force rod or something and helped with the warp phase, i'm not going to lie to you i've not played 40k since 2nd edition and my memory is very hazy.

"I'm not advocating exact science here, and you can surely find many border cases like you did. I can't draw a definite line, but I still know a leader with las pistol is all wrong!"

Hehe it's odd you say that, because I toyed with a model escher gang and it was based upon an imperial unit, Leader had a laspistol all the squad had lasguns, 1 specialist(champion) had a needle Rifle, one champion had a heavy (stubber i think it was) She was distictive from the rank and file, (I think i couldn't afford a sword to give her) but this would be a case where the leader had a pistol to prove her rank. (Unfortunatly this gang got completly wiped out suffered massive injuries in play testing so never went through with it)

img46ba060b64c58.jpg

P29Efzs.jpg
 

=Angel=

Ganger
Oct 3, 2016
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Take a look at imperial guard. Most units have easily identified leaders based on their weaponry. A commissar will often have a bolt pistol, power sword or similar. Other sergeants and officers have at minimum las pistol and chainsword. Very few units have leaders with same weaponry as the standard members. The higher up you go in rank, the more expensive and fancy weaponry is carried.

I can list up countless characters with excellent leader capacity with powerful/unique weaponry.

Same goes for Eldar, Space Marines, Chaos++ and of course Orks as you mention.
One thing you've missed is that in an Imperial guard squad, The Sergeant will ordinarily be armed with a laspistol, whereas his squaddy may have a missile launcher, plasmagun, meltagun etc. He doesn't get that option. He cant even take the same rifle his men get. The laspistol is the smallest, most puny weapon available to the guard. The guard do require their officers and NCO's to have a sword or other such weapon for gesturing and striking heroic poses.

The higher up you go in rank, the more expensive and fancy weaponry is available to carried - A Colonel is still likely armed with a laspistol and chainsword. A senior officer may also have some fancy gun like a plasmapistol, but the Lord Castellan of Cadia has two fancy laspistols. Still, none of them are permitted to take the basic rifle their men carry, despite its greater range and rate of fire.

Hive gangs aren't part of a 10k year tradition of martial conduct with hidebound rules and regulations. They are illegal corporate enforcers and other scum living in the basement of an 11 mile high weapons factory. Therefore they get more leeway in what weapons are available to them than the men of the guard, and a wide range of personality and fighting styles are reflected in the number and types of weapons they choose to carry.

To be fair to you, I agree the game is likely more exciting when every gang Leader is a khorne berzerker or obliterator, and I do regret picking overseer for that reason. I do think it allows a conniving bastard/puppetmaster style of leadership which is highly appropriate for Tzeentch cults, GSC and others- where presenting less of an obvious threat is entirely in character.

It does run counter to some of 40k's themes of leaders hitting each other in the face while explosions happen around.
 
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Mcnabb

Ganger
Sep 28, 2018
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Bournemouth
One thing you've missed is that in an Imperial guard squad, The Sergeant will ordinarily be armed with a laspistol, whereas his squaddy may have a missile launcher, plasmagun, meltagun etc. He doesn't get that option. He cant even take the same rifle his men get. The laspistol is the smallest, most puny weapon available to the guard. The guard do require their officers and NCO's to have a sword or other such weapon for gesturing and striking heroic poses.

The higher up you go in rank, the more expensive and fancy weaponry is available to carried - A Colonel is still likely armed with a laspistol and chainsword. A senior officer may also have some fancy gun like a plasmapistol, but the Lord Castellan of Cadia has two fancy laspistols. Still, none of them are permitted to take the basic rifle their men carry, despite its greater range and rate of fire.

Hive gangs aren't part of a 10k year tradition of martial conduct with hidebound rules and regulations. They are illegal corporate enforcers and other scum living in the basement of an 11 mile high weapons factory. Therefore they get more leeway in what weapons are available to them than the men of the guard, and a wide range of personality and fighting styles are reflected in the number and types of weapons they choose to carry.

To be fair to you, I agree the game is likely more exciting when every gang Leader is a khorne berzerker or obliterator, and I do regret picking overseer for that reason. I do think it allows a conniving bastard/puppetmaster style of leadership which is highly appropriate for Tzeentch cults, GSC and others- where presenting less of an obvious threat is entirely in character.

It does run counter to some of 40k's themes of leaders hitting each other in the face while explosions happen around.
Yea this is pretty much the point, there is room for this in necromunda, if you want to nerf your goliath leader you are an idiot, giving overseer to most leaders would be a bad call Cawdor, Tzeentch, (Slaneesh?) GSC, these kind of make sense (although i wouldn't give it to a GSC alpha myself as i feel that would be a waste) (There is the posiblity of trying to get champion to have it but you will have burned a heck of alot of exp to get that skill). Everyone feels that Overseer is a little oped but one simple reduction in its power is when you cannot group activate and overseer someone in your group. (it prevents the flame/web rush or the 2x fire of a heavy weapon in one turn)
 

=Angel=

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Oct 3, 2016
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Backseat commanders carry impressive weapons too!
Eldrad's staff is a symbol of authority no standard eldar infantry is allowed to carry.
It's a stick
The Magus' staff is a symbol of authority no regular cult member is allowed to carry.
Also a stick.
Now because Eldrad and Magus and Ahriman are MAGIC their sticks hit harder. But they are still sticks, fundamentally, and they are carrying them as symbols of office. You can arm your Goliath leader with a stub gun and give him a big back banner that says 'Head Goliath!' and it will have the same effect.

The pistol and chainsword are symbols of authority. The chainsword is an excellent leader weapon in Necromunda
Not sure I agree. They are commonly officers weapons, but also pirate weapons. A chainsword isn't a particularly expensive weapon for scum to carry.

Regardless of who the commissar shoots, it is a symbol of rank compared to the standard laspistol or lasgun.
Commissars are commonly issued bolt pistols and plasmapistols to defeat Imperial guard body armour - but carry laspistols by default. They only need short ranged weapons because their job is to shoot the men beside them- if the guard fight hard enough, the commissar/officer will never need to fire his pistol at the enemy or his men.
In effect, Commissars and Officers are the Overseers of the guard, which is why they are lightly armed.

I'm not advocating exact science here, and you can surely find many border cases like you did. I can't draw a definite line, but I still know a leader with las pistol is all wrong!
Tell Ciaphas Cain, Hero of the Imperium that he is a border case. Someone like you must be doing his posters, because although he never carried one, he's armed with a bolt pistol in all the artwork.