N18 Are Dum Dum rounds an additional profile?

[Snoop_Hogg]

If you take Dum Dum rounds for a sub gun, do you choose which you are firing (like a shotgun) or do they replace the normal subs gun ammo?

Also, can you take Dum Dum rounds for the combi plasma/stub?

Snoop

 

[Vonvilkee]

They are a second profile type like a shotgun. They are listed as ammo and have a substitute stat line. Hotshot packs have a rule that changes the stat line of the las gun which is why it replaces.

 

[TopsyKretts]

So Combi, Ammo and Hotshot upgrade packs are all different stuff.

Combi is basically 2 guns built together. What you get with this is the 2 individual weapons which only take a single weapon slot (instead of 2). When one fails, you can continue fire the other one. The penalty you pay is rolling twice for Ammo Checks. In addition, a few select weapons have modified stats when part of a Combi weapon:

• Plasma: only low power mode.
• Grenade Launcher (frag): Single shot.
• Flamer/hand flamer: Unstable.
• Needler/Needle rifle: Decrease Short Range accuracy and AP with 1.

Hotshot pack is an upgrade to a lasgun/laspistol. The original las weapon is replaced/upgraded. This is a cheap way of improving the weapon Strength. Instead of buying a new S 4 weapon, you can upgrade one of your existing S3 (las) weapons.

Ammo is additional weapon profiles for existing guns. This can be used for any eligible weapons including weapons part of Combi. You can choose any available ammo type, the original(s) that come with the weapon or any you purchased in addition. But once the weapon fails, you must reload even if you want to switch ammo type.

 

[Thorgor]

This can be used for any eligible weapons including weapons part of Combi.

It has never been clarified one way or another. Some would argue that a combi stub/plasma is not a stub gun the same way a combi las/plasma is not a lasgun (and cannot be fitted with a hotshot pack).

 

[TopsyKretts]

I would say putting in different ammunition is something completely different than upgrading a gun that is built together with another gun. I would lean towards saying a stub gun by itself is exactly the same thing as the stub gun part of a stub/plasma combi (other than the double ammo check roll).

 

[Thorgor]

I would say putting in different ammunition is something completely different than upgrading a gun that is built together with another gun.

And I would say the wording is similar enough to assume both work the same way. There is no profile for using dumdum rounds with the combi pistol anyway, and we know that combi profiles are not always the same as their regular counterparts.
This could be handwaved flavour-wise as the miniaturization process weakening the structural integrity of the weapon, not allowing it to be safely loaded with dumdum rounds (didn't they use to have a chance to make the gun explode in Oldmunda?) It would be in line with other combi weapons getting Unstable or losing their Max power profile.
Also, if you allow the combi pistol to be loaded with dumdum rounds, then surely you also must allow the combi Autogun / Grenade launcher to be loaded with other grenades than Frag, which is obviously not intended.

If I were to house-rule it, I would allow the combi pistol to be loaded with dumdum rounds, but with Unstable added to their profile. But RAI I'm pretty sure it's not an option.

 

[Kitcar]

Also, if you allow the combi pistol to be loaded with dumdum rounds, then surely you also must allow the combi Autogun / Grenade launcher to be loaded with other grenades than Frag, which is obviously not intended

Why?

 

[Thorgor]

Why?

Why should you apply the rules consistently? Or why is it obvious that the combi grenade launcher is not meant to be used with anything but frag grenades?

Respectively because consistency is something that should be valued highly when writing rules (it makes them way easier to understand/learn/remember), and because the combi GL explicitly excludes the other standard GL ammo (Krak, that cannot be purchased on its own) and has a different profile from the regular GL Frag grenade (meaning you can't simply port the other grenade profiles as is and call it a day)

 

[Kitcar]

I am sorry, the question is "why didn't Zi read the rules?". Just played a game (first) where we agreed to study the rules. Now we have another dimension to pay attention to.

Thanks!

 

[TopsyKretts]

Also, if you allow the combi pistol to be loaded with dumdum rounds, then surely you also must allow the combi Autogun / Grenade launcher to be loaded with other grenades than Frag, which is obviously not intended.

That argument settles it.