Armour on Van Saar gangers...

[Orgrok the Butcher]

I just noticed that the Van Saar list from GW3 does not permit its gangers to equip armour, unlike Escher gangers who can upgrade to mesh.
Goliaths and Orlock cannot either, but it matters less since they do not have armour upgrades from their house list, although Goliaths could use some trading post common mesh.

But it's a big deal for the van saar, as their undersuit+mesh combo seems so ubiquitous.

Thoughts?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Any fighter can take armour at any and all times! What are you talking about?

 

[Thorgor]

@Orgrok the Butcher: be aware that you stepped in a minefield
This topic is... unclear at best, and the 'clarifications' provided so far by designers on facebook don't really help.

From what I've gathererd (I don't have GW3 yet, so can't give you a precise reference to check), there is a line somewhere in GW3 that says any fighter has access to Wargear. From what has been clarified, this 'Wargear' refers to the Wargear category, and not the Wargear sub-category, so it includes Armour, Grenades and Wargear.
Then you may ask, what is the point of the Van Saar Ganger entry specifically mentionning Grenades but not Wargear or Armour? Excellent question indeed. Apparently, things are not required to make sense in these books

 

[TopsyKretts]

Any and all fighters can always take wargear (wargear, grenades and armour) any time.

I'm gonna need clearly written rules or FAQ to convince me otherwise. So far GW is not able to provide either.

This game needs more simple stupid, less unclear. What's the "gain" of changing something simple to something difficult in this instance? Will it improve the game or make it more fun?!?

 

[Malo]

Gang War 3 page 8, Gang Composition bullet point 4. Any Fighter may take Wargear.

As @Thorgor points out, this is referring to Wargear (big font) not Wargear (small font), so it includes Armor and Grenades in addition to Wargear.

It couldn't be any clearer right?

So yes you can have your 15 credit 4+ armor.

 

[Orgrok the Butcher]

Thanks Malo and Thorgor!
As armour is specifically listed for escher, but not for Van Saar, I had some doubts.
To be fair, I hoped the answer would be different, as I feel that starting with the armour bodyglove and therefore reaching 4+ sv for 15 cred as opposed to 25/40 for other gangs (and having to get the rare armoured undersuit from the trading post) is borderline OP.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

I was put off by everyone wearing armor, but it does make powerful guns worth the cost.

And about Van Saar OPness, they can also g et extra armor from their shields.

 

[Draco]

Playing Van Saar as a gang, you fundamentally commit to being a shooting gang, and quality over quantity.

I personally feel that Van Saar are nowhere near as broken as Venator gangs can be, especially at higher starting point values where 5 weapons per ganger happens much quicker.

I'm looking at the 3000 point hive dome campaign rules and Im very intrigued.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

I don't even own GW3 yet, so I'm reserving my judgement until I've played against them for a campaign.

 

[ten_kage]

I am waiting to field test the Van Saar yet, but on the paper they do not seem OP at all.
They are very extreem. The best at shooting, the worst at fighting in melee. Also, it seems to mee that in Zone Mortalis, where keeping your enemy at range is not very easy, they do not stand a real chance against the other gangs

(edited: spelling)

 

[Orgrok the Butcher]

Yes, it truly depends whether one plays zone mortalis or sector mecanicus. Shooting is far more powerful in 3D battles.
It's also true that we have dumped the "put away the clippers" rule and authorize changing loadouts as long as WYSIWYG is mostly adhered to, so the 5 weapons rule is not an advantage in our campaign.

But 4+ sv for 15 cred remains a potent advantage considering how difficult and pricey it is for other gangs to reach that.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Possibly the best way to prevent carapace armor spam is going to be strict adherence to WYSIWYG, no armor without a custom model! How many carapace models does GW even sell... just the Scions I think...

 

[Vonvilkee]

Possibly the best way to prevent carapace armor spam is going to be strict adherence to WYSIWYG, no armor without a custom model! How many carapace models does GW even sell... just the Scions I think...

Which conveniently come with plasma...

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Which conveniently come with plasma...

Best thing to do, have your game group buy a collective pack of scions splitting the cost, and draft the bitz round robin style!

 

[Vegeta365]

Surely the Van Saar armour that the models are in is already set to 4+?

They aren’t just wearing armoured undersuits are they? It looks fairly beefy and people were saying 4+ before the rules were out.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Yeah... gives me a reason to mix old and new model though... old models have just the suit.

 

[TheSharp]

Hi @Thorgor are there any links to the mentioned designer clarifications on Facebook?
Or is there any update from GW?

 

[Thorgor]

Hi @Thorgor are there any links to the mentioned designer clarifications on Facebook?
Or is there any update from GW?

I've seen no link to the post (not that they would do me any good since I've vowed never to register on FB), but there has been a couple of screencaps floating around. Jonathan Taylor Yorke (the designer in question) have asked people to stop sharing his answers this way though (which should tell you a few things about the guy), so they may be more difficult to find now.

Sadly, no update has been issued by GW through the official channel (which would mean updating the FAQ).

 

[TopsyKretts]

Jonathan Taylor Yorke is quite active on talkfantasyfootball.org for Blood Bowl. He's been clarifiying questions and minor issues there quite often and recently. Would be great to have some officials engaged with Necromunda in this forum too.

 

[EAfirstlast]

Playing Van Saar as a gang, you fundamentally commit to being a shooting gang, and quality over quantity.

I personally feel that Van Saar are nowhere near as broken as Venator gangs can be, especially at higher starting point values where 5 weapons per ganger happens much quicker.

I'm looking at the 3000 point hive dome campaign rules and Im very intrigued.

I think a venator gang has the option of being built almost any way you want, including utterly broken and unfair. Van Saar, on the other hand, just end up breakable almost casually with not too much thought