N18 Badzone Enforcers and Enforcer Brutes/Hangers On

[SirWalterManny]

Recently updated Goonhammer article indicates that “Badzone Enforcers are cut off from the unique Brute, Hanger-On, vehicle and Exotic Beast options that Palanites enjoy…”

But I’m trying to understand why this is the case. In the rules.

Bastions of Law has the text:

“A Badzone Enforcer gang may not benefit from the Prefecture rules presented earlier in this book as they are too cut off from the chain of command to be considered part of the Prefect Provost Marshal’s forces.

In all other respects, including generating gang tactics, they are considered to be a Palanite Enforcer gang.”

The Palanite Enforcer Haunt and the Enforcer Sanctioner Patter automata both include the text “Available to Palanite Enforcer Gang Only.”

The Enforcer Tauros Venator also has the same text, and whilst the Palanite specific ‘crew’ doesnt seem to be available to Badlands Enforcers, a generic Racer crew is and as far as I can see there is nothing that would prevent them acting as crew for the Tauros Venator.

So what is preventing Badzone Enforcers from taking any of these options?

 

[Hobo86]

they updated the article? I'll check*

within bastions of law there are different unit descriptions (on the unit profiles)
-some like the ranger (the designated drivers of venators) / hardcase cybermastiffs are part of the enforcer gang so they're definitively disqualified
-some like hive scum, bounty hunters, imperial house, hangers on & house agent state 'for all gangs' so they're definitively qualified
-this leaves the lawbot, venator and haunts that state 'for palanite gangs only'... leading to a grey area, what rules takes primacy?

RAI i see the latter as specialised assets not available to cut-off precincts, but RAW it's a bit of a gray area

*edit:
this updated article is only about the palanite enforcers, a second guide about the badzone enforcers is still in the making

Necromunday: Gangs of the Underhive – Palanite Enforcers

Howdy scummers! It’s been a while since we’ve talked about Helmawr’s muscle on Necromunda – the Palanite Enforcers. While we brought you initial impressions before, we are b…

www.goonhammer.com

 

[SirWalterManny]

Can you explain your thinking as to why you see it as a grey area?

The rules say that:

“In all other respects, including generating gang tactics, they are considered to be a Palanite Enforcer gang.”

How are you interpreting ‘all other respects’?

 

[PalatineKatinka]

The Enforcer Tauros Venator also has the same text, and whilst the Palanite specific ‘crew’ doesnt seem to be available to Badlands Enforcers, a generic Racer crew is and as far as I can see there is nothing that would prevent them acting as crew for the Tauros Venator.

The Tauros Venator isn't on the equipment list for Scum Racers so, unless its rules say who can take it, it can only be taken by Crew that have it on their list i.e. the Palanite Ranger.

 

[Hobo86]

sure:
I interpret the statements on the fighter profiles of 'available for palanite enforcers gangs only' as quite literally that.
considering there are other fighters that allow 'for all gangs', (including house agents)
or that are specifically mentionned in the badzone enforcer rules (tactic cards/can't take prefectures)

they could've stated 'for enforcers gangs only' or something similar if they believed the haunt, venator, sanctionner are allowed for badzone enforcers.

there was some discussion about this as well in the discussion underneath this:

N18 - Badzone enforcers (what changed)

Hereby a short article analyzing what changed for the badzone enforcers and how they hold up against new enforcers. What changed: -More Flexibility: Each badzone enforcer fighter came with an inbuilt armoured undersuit* in the old WD rules. These can now only be taken from their equipment...

yaktribe.games

 

[Hobo86]

The Tauros Venator isn't on the equipment list for Scum Racers so, unless its rules say who can take it, it can only be taken by Crew that have it on their list i.e. the Palanite Ranger.

it might be possible if you buy it as equipment, store it and then assign a driver thereafter?
(not sure about this... I haven't read through the vehicle-rules in detail)

 

[PalatineKatinka]

it might be possible if you buy it as equipment, store it and then assign a driver thereafter?
(not sure about this... I haven't read through the vehicle-rules in detail)

I don't think you'd be able to buy it without a Ranger as it's not in the Trading Post so would need to be bought from the Crew's equipment list. Even then Scum Racer wouldn't be able to drive it as they can only be given vehicles from their list or the Trading Post.

 

[Hobo86]

I don't think you'd be able to buy it without a Ranger as it's not in the Trading Post so would need to be bought from the Crew's equipment list. Even then Scum Racer wouldn't be able to drive it as they can only be given vehicles from their list or the Trading Post.

ok, good points... so no venators for the badzone boys (maybe a custom rig venator?)

 

[SirWalterManny]

On Tauros Venators, and use with Scum Racers as crew, yes, that all seems to make sense with how rules are currently set up.

Tauros Venator as a vehicle is only available on equipment list for Palatine Enforcer Ranger (crew) fighter profile. The Palanite Enforcer Ranger (crew) is a fighter type within the Gang List for Palanite Enforcers, and not on the Gang List for Badzones Enforcers. So there is no mechanism to select the Tauros Venator for the Badzone Enforcers gang.

sure:
I interpret the statements on the fighter profiles of 'available for palanite enforcers gangs only' as quite literally that.
considering there are other fighters that allow 'for all gangs', (including house agents)
or that are specifically mentionned in the badzone enforcer rules (tactic cards/can't take prefectures)

they could've stated 'for enforcers gangs only' or something similar if they believed the haunt, venator, sanctionner are allowed for badzone enforcers.

there was some discussion about this as well in the discussion underneath this:

N18 - Badzone enforcers (what changed)

Hereby a short article analyzing what changed for the badzone enforcers and how they hold up against new enforcers. What changed: -More Flexibility: Each badzone enforcer fighter came with an inbuilt armoured undersuit* in the old WD rules. These can now only be taken from their equipment...

yaktribe.games

I think k with regards the Brute and Hanger-On I’m taking a different approach and allowing these to be selected by a Badlands Enforcer gang.

My interpretation:

The Enforcer specific Brute and Hanger-on state “Available for Palanite Enforcer Gangs only” in the same way that some other Hangers-On and Brutes are limited to other specific gangs, and others have different costs for different gangs.

However, the Badzone Enforcer Gang’s rules specifically state that:

“In all other respects, including generating gang tactics, they are considered to be a Palanite Enforcer gang.”

This seems to my reading an instance of where that would apply. I’m not if it didn’t what else it might apply to.

 

[Hobo86]

On Tauros Venators, and use with Scum Racers as crew, yes, that all seems to make sense with how rules are currently set up.

Tauros Venator as a vehicle is only available on equipment list for Palatine Enforcer Ranger (crew) fighter profile. The Palanite Enforcer Ranger (crew) is a fighter type within the Gang List for Palanite Enforcers, and not on the Gang List for Badzones Enforcers. So there is no mechanism to select the Tauros Venator for the Badzone Enforcers gang.



I think k with regards the Brute and Hanger-On I’m taking a different approach and allowing these to be selected by a Badlands Enforcer gang.

My interpretation:

The Enforcer specific Brute and Hanger-on state “Available for Palanite Enforcer Gangs only” in the same way that some other Hangers-On and Brutes are limited to other specific gangs, and others have different costs for different gangs.

However, the Badzone Enforcer Gang’s rules specifically state that:

“In all other respects, including generating gang tactics, they are considered to be a Palanite Enforcer gang.”

This seems to my reading an instance of where that would apply. I’m not if it didn’t what else it might apply to.

it would apply it to the 'for all gangs' options from bastions of law and a few campaign specific (law/outlaw/loyalty to helmawr) rules

but as I said... I see palanite haunts & sanctionners as a gray zone where either allowing them or disallowing them for badzone enforcers could be correct.
until gw clarifies this, there are valid points for both interpretations.

RAI I don't think disallowing lawbots and haunts would break the badzone enforcers.
an infiltrating ambot + a bunch of infiltrating scum can do some work

I'm happy they unf*cked the enlisted scum and heavy concussion ram ^^

 

[TopsyKretts]

For game play perspective, it may not even matter where you draw the line? But as a rules discussion, it seems highly unclear.

 

[SirWalterManny]

I think, if I’m honest in this instance I think it is very clear, but the fact that others don’t think so suggest a clarification is needed. Roll on the next FAQ in 2027/8.

That said, I am confused about what you say re “it would apply it to the 'for all gangs' options from bastions of law” and “an infiltrating ambot”.

The lists of Hanger’s On, Brutes, rules for hired guns etc. follow on from the Palatine Enforcer’s gang list, but as I think is the same in all books, aren’t a part of the gang list. They are reference materials, reprinted (sometimes updated) and supplemented across books. This can be seen in contents pages, and e.g. for Hanger’s On like ‘Bullet Merchant’ in House of Iron which is available for all gangs but only appears there. So the Ambot would be available to Badzone Enforcers, as it is to all gangs, irrespective of the mention of being treated like Palatine Enforcers or not. Unless I have completely misunderstood something?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Sure that makes sense, but you're taking some educated guesses there too. And that's often what we're left with in these cases.

 

[Hobo86]

@SirWalterManny
as Topsy said;
either of our ways of reading the (somewhat interpretable) rules could be correct.
I'll stick to my interpretation, but it is as such... a 50% chance I interpret the rules as intended.

I like the badzone enforcer gang and 'I would like' to have acces to certain things, but I am a bit careful to interpret rules in a way to give me said acesses
the 'gray areas' in the ruleset are and remain what they are. In longer campaigns I would talk with the arbitrator about it before a campaign.

 

[Beebopalulla]

So, Goonhammer can be wrong and they have been in the past according to comments below their articles.

Also, p95 Bastion of law,

BADZONE ENFORCERS, PREFECTURES AND GANG TACTICS

A Badzone Enforcer gang may not benefit from the Prefecture rules presented earlier in this book as they are too cut off from the chain of command to be considered part of the Prefect Provost Marshal’s forces.

In all other respects, including generating gang tactics, they are considered to be a Palanite Enforcer gang.

As i understand it, they have access to everything the regular enforcer haec acces to save the prefecture.

 

[Beebopalulla]

STATUS ITEMS

EXOTIC BEASTS

• 0-1 Hacked Cyber-mastiff ......................... 100 credits

That for badzone enforcer officer.

STATUS ITEMS

EXOTIC BEASTS

• 0-2 Hardcase Cyber-mastiff ......................... 130 credits

This is for the palanite officer. That and the rules abouy scarcity of some weapons is all i find explicitely different between the two.

 

[Hobo86]

I agree to disagree... there's specific descriptions with the unit profiles
but there's the inconclusive part about what rule description overwrites the other?

_____

reply to last message:

I already wrote out the differences here:
https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/badzone-enforcers-what-changed.15076/ (completed)
vs
https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/palanite-enforcers-what-changed.15078/ (not 100% completed)

but:
-stats and skill options vary (cunning)
-the weaponry acces is different (somewhere between palanite & subjugator)
-the enlisted scum instead off rookies
-the different precinct rules & dominion campaign 'extras'

 

[Beebopalulla]

Fair, it's fair but it's not the first time with disagree on that particular book?

I do agree on that.

but there's the question what rule description overwrites the other?

 

[Hobo86]

also... let us argue about 'pains au chocolat' and their bastardizations 'the chocolatines' like civilized people 'cough'.

 

[Beebopalulla]

also... let us argue about 'pains au chocolat' and their bastardizations 'the chocolatines' like civilized people 'cough'.

Alright alright i will answer the provocation "chocolatine" is the right name. So "BASTON"