Basic weapon loadout for starting Van Saar.

ClickClick

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Jan 29, 2018
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Basildon
Currently playing around with my first Van Saar list. Played a few games of Underhive and enjoyed it. Want to start a gang and have picked Van Saar on the grounds I like their look and they're shooty. (I usually always go close combat in 40k). We shall be following N17 rules...

So, basically, what's the pro's and cons of taking lasguns or autoguns. I am likely to take a mix, (even throw in a shotgun), but I'd like a better understanding of starting basic weaponry tactics with Van Saar, especially when linking it up with the skills I choose for my Leader and Champions.

e.g. Munitioneer allows re-rolls for ammo checks, so autogunners near a fighter with this skill become more reliable. Buuut is it worth giving a Champ or Leader this as their first skill over other stuff? i.e. 'connected', or even 'fast shot'. I am also minded that the 'Ammo Jack' hanger-on is coming out in GW2 so would it make Munitioneer more redundant?

Lasguns are more accurate and reliable at long range, autoguns are less accurate but likely deal more damage. What one in people's experience comes out on top?

Does what else I equip gangers with change what basic weapon I should go for? Ultimately I think a ganger with a basic gun, pistol and CCW will look dope. So if I give them autogun, autopistol and knife be reliable enough. Or is the lasgun, autopistol, knife a better rounded combo?

Questions, questions, questions. Thanks for your time!
 
Van Saar are fun to play. They’re the tech guys with the best gadgets...er...guns.

My advise. Plan your gang for the future. Skills for creds. Overseer on your leader to help a very shotty champion. Get a plasma gun.

For gangers. Lasguns help you pin, but rarely cause enough damage. Autoguns are good with aim/sights and can pin multiple people, but because of the rapid fire die are not 100% dependable in that way.

From what I’ve heard. Overseer action to double activate a plasma gun toting champion with fast shot is stupidly good
 
For your rank and file generic ganger, ideally go with autoguns. For secondary, autopistol x2 is suprisingly effective. You can change out one pistol for a close combat weapon, but If you are playing a truly "shooty" gang then getting into close combat is usually a mistake.

Your real choices are between primary weapon/pistol/ccw and primary weapon/pistol x2

For leaders/champions Plasma guns are classic Van Saar, but be extremely wary of the action cards. These can be seriously damaging. Click is almost automatic against Van Saar for this reason.

For your first skill, take fast shot on all three gangers. Your second leader advance should be gunfighter, and I reccomend bolt pistol x2. Bolt Pistol x 2 on fast shot + gunfighter with 2+ BS = lots of dead people within 12".

For your champions, I would consider a primary weapon, then power sword with either bolt pistol or plasma pistol.

As a primary weapon, you have 3 good choices: grenade launcher, boltgun, and plasma gun. Our house rules allow custom combination weapons, so I prefer a combination bolter/grenade launcher.

I would be careful to avoid putting two plasma weapons on one champion.

Your gang should be 6-7 members, with 1 leader and 2 champions.

Leader = bolt pistol x2, primary weapon. Fast shot for skill.

Champions = as leader or power sword + pistol + primary weapon. Fast shot for skill.

Ganger = autogun, autopistol x2 or autogun, autopistol, ccw
 
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Van Saar are clearly very abusable in N17 under the gangs of legend list. It will be interesting to see how they are balanced in the next 6 months when they get their own book.

Wouldn’t disagree with anything Draco has said above if you are in a win at all costs group that is ok with you fielding something like what he has shown. I have not seen it used so can not be certain but I struggle to see how anyone can compete with it. What I know for certain is that it isn’t too much my fun facing just one overseered grenade launcher being able to fire twice let alone a fast shot one that could fire 4 times (or two fast shot fighters firing 4 times, heaven forbid 3 firing 6 times). So depending on your group you may find people don’t want to play the game anymore.

I don’t want to sound too negative. I just want to ensure you are aware of how powerful it is and how many people would never want to face it.

From a pure WAAC perspective my only changes from what Draco describes is that I wouldn’t give everyone all of the guns to start. Instead I would have a larger gang. Gangers for me would start with just an autogun/lasgun. I prefer auto guns but lasguns feel more Van Saar. All those auto pistol credits quickly add up to a couple of extra gangers with an autogun and you quickly earn credits that can be spent on side arms. Getting the first couple of victories without losing champs/leader allows you to earn plenty of creds whilst limiting your opponent early on, setting you up for a great campaign start.
 
When I read your response Draco it reminded me of Conan's quote "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." Hearing this sort of loadout strategy was what I wanted to hear from someone, so I could really see the full effect of a Van Saar loadout. I hadn't considered dual wielding for anyone, it's so devastating on a leader.

It seems people favor autogun, as do I, and autopistol, and further Vegata's comment that lasguns feel more Van Saar, I dunno, Van Saar look after their equipment and them being armed to the teeth with plenty of bullets sounds fluffy. HOWEVER, those hot shot lasguns from the Scions kit just look so dope, and yeah, very Van Saar looking from the outset.

Its unlikely I will put fast shot onto all the gangers to start, as Vegeta says, it may be too good haha. I will only give gangers Autoguns/maybe a few laguns to start. Then I'll def go autopistol, then depending on how hardcore my opposition is I will go dual auto instead of auto and knife, because out of the two, Draco has made me think about dual wielding and in close with two autopistols... its pretty devastating.

As for champs and the leaders primary, I'm tempted to go 2 x plasma guns and 1 grenade launcher. I think grenade launchers are better value for money but I don't want to min/max, I may even get rid of a plasma and sling one a bolter to be a bit more 'chill' too.

As for skills, I'm thinking fast shot on one, connected on another, and then dunno for a third. Skills for creds as Boriel has said is a course of action I'm tempted to take at the outset not only for long term benefit but not to be too OP to start on the table. I may go for another connected, munitioneer, or even mentor for the leader. What's your thoughts on this? Or other skills? I am aware of how good overseer is thanks now to Boriel.

If I'm getting a pasting, I can start ramping up the fast shot/gunfughter dual pistol combos on champs. Provided it's not too late....

Cheers so far
 
Van Saar are clearly very abusable in N17 under the gangs of legend list. It will be interesting to see how they are balanced in the next 6 months when they get their own book.

Wouldn’t disagree with anything Draco has said above if you are in a win at all costs group that is ok with you fielding something like what he has shown. I have not seen it used so can not be certain but I struggle to see how anyone can compete with it. What I know for certain is that it isn’t too much my fun facing just one overseered grenade launcher being able to fire twice let alone a fast shot one that could fire 4 times (or two fast shot fighters firing 4 times, heaven forbid 3 firing 6 times). So depending on your group you may find people don’t want to play the game anymore.

I don’t want to sound too negative. I just want to ensure you are aware of how powerful it is and how many people would never want to face it.

From a pure WAAC perspective my only changes from what Draco describes is that I wouldn’t give everyone all of the guns to start. Instead I would have a larger gang. Gangers for me would start with just an autogun/lasgun. I prefer auto guns but lasguns feel more Van Saar. All those auto pistol credits quickly add up to a couple of extra gangers with an autogun and you quickly earn credits that can be spent on side arms. Getting the first couple of victories without losing champs/leader allows you to earn plenty of creds whilst limiting your opponent early on, setting you up for a great campaign start.

I would actually think that Delaque have the advantage as far as powerful builds. An infiltration build that focuses on getting 100% of models with infiltration or pseudo infiltration via tunnels/vents trumps the scenario system. The fact that they have secondary shooting...

Escher have a lasgun spam strategy that gives 55 credit lasgun gangers that allows for swarm tactics.

Goliath can run True Grit with Unstoppable, and toughness 4 matters, let alone a stimm surge/overseer offense.
 
I would actually think that Delaque have the advantage as far as powerful builds. An infiltration build that focuses on getting 100% of models with infiltration or pseudo infiltration via tunnels/vents trumps the scenario system. The fact that they have secondary shooting...

Escher have a lasgun spam strategy that gives 55 credit lasgun gangers that allows for swarm tactics.

Goliath can run True Grit with Unstoppable, and toughness 4 matters, let alone a stimm surge/overseer offense.

All options too and I would need to see a campaign with the Delanie one as it is too complex to compare without seeing it games but I don’t personally feel any of these touch the Van Saar build. Goliath true grit/Stim with unstoppable ince is great but doesn’t stand up to 6 plasma/krak shots from turn 1/game 1.
 
This is one of the starting gangs in my recent campaign.

His first game he just made sure to bottle early and not let the leader and champions get injured and from there he has raked in enough credits to expand the gang to 10 gangers.

Gang name: The Outer Defenders of Lasgun Ammo Production block MCCCCXIX

Leader
- Plasma Gun
Skill: Quick Shot,

Champion A
- Plasma Gun - Telescopic sight
Skill: fixer
- Medicae kit

Champion B
- Plasma Gun - Telescopic sight
Skill: fixer
- Medicae kit

Ganger 1
- Grenade Launcher


Ganger 2
- autogun

Ganger 3
- autogun

Stash = 20 credits
 
Telescopic sight is not starting legal equipment without a house rule to the contrary.
 
I've gone for bodies - including 3 Juve's with very minimal load outs (one of them has nothing but a club).

And instead of Plasma Gun I've gone with flamer on a champion. With Fast shot. I might give him an autopistol too because I've been caught out with "Click" on him and then he becomes useless.
 
Looking at doing a Van Saar gang myself. Leader w/ Plasma Gun and 2x bolt pistols (Fast Shot), 2x Champions w/ Grenade Launcher (Fixer), 3x Gangers w/ Autoguns, 2x Gangers w/ Lasguns, 2x Juves w/ Autopistol.
Gives me lots of shots downfield to pin the enemy down and alot of bodies. My concern is with ammo checks as i only have 1 ranged weapon on fighters, if they run out there kinda screwed (especially the leader and champs with their 5+ and 6+ checks.)
Is it worth taking out the juves and sticking some autoguns or pistols on the champs?
 
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@Anarchy33

Lose the juves, go with a power sword or bolt pistol on the champions, preferably both.

When hangers on happen, take an ammo Jack or 3 asap.
 
@Anarchy33

Lose the juves, go with a power sword or bolt pistol on the champions, preferably both.

When hangers on happen, take an ammo Jack or 3 asap.
Losing the Juves gives me 70 points so i can get a bolt pistol for wach champion with change. Or a power sword for one of them! Out of interest why lose the juves for more gear?
 
Juves in n17 are ineffective. It is better to have a cheap default ganger in support, and focus on leader/champs, especially in a campaign context. If a ganger hits a specialist advance, then that ganger becomes significant, and certain power combinations can be beyond broken.
 
Are juves not even worth using as cannon fodder / priority target? I get where your coming from though and it does make sense. From a fluff perspective it would probably be worth keeping them i would of thought
 
Targeting priority is bypassed with marksman, or a cool check. 6+ on 2d6? Not that hard. Gangers are simply better.
 
I would swap the Plasmas out for grenade launchers on a few of those.. cheaper.. and rare later. While plasmaguns are easier to come by down the road. Get another ganger with an autogun or a pair of juves with autopistols and clubs with the creds you save there. Having more heads can help and a juve screen can give you more time to pin those pesky toughness 4 goliaths.



This is one of the starting gangs in my recent campaign.

His first game he just made sure to bottle early and not let the leader and champions get injured and from there he has raked in enough credits to expand the gang to 10 gangers.

Gang name: The Outer Defenders of Lasgun Ammo Production block MCCCCXIX

Leader
- Plasma Gun
Skill: Quick Shot,

Champion A
- Plasma Gun - Telescopic sight
Skill: fixer
- Medicae kit

Champion B
- Plasma Gun - Telescopic sight
Skill: fixer
- Medicae kit

Ganger 1
- Grenade Launcher


Ganger 2
- autogun

Ganger 3
- autogun

Stash = 20 credits
 
Telescopic sight is not starting legal equipment without a house rule to the contrary.

My campaign house rules were that any gang can start with common weapons and equipment available from the trading post.

I also added the gang of legend weapons into the trading post with different rarity levels.
 
Given the preview orlock, I don't think that munitioneer is worth it given the hangers on preview.

For Van Saar, fast shot is the best skill to start with. 2+ Ballistic skill to start is to be abused...