N18 Bolt Weapons

Hawkins44

Gang Champion
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Helllo!

I'm interested in knowing your opinion on Bolt weapons, and special ammo, how effective they are, and if they are worth buying.

I don't speak about the Enforcer Boltgun, 4+ ammo check and reduced price make the weapon quite an effective, and perhaps even fearsome option.
I speak of the generic Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, and Heavy Bolter.

Would you give your fighter a Bolt Pistol or Boltgun even without the Munitoneer perk?
 
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JawRippa

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Mar 31, 2017
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Would you give your fighter a Bolt Pistol or Boltgun even without the Munitoneer perk?
Yes for bolter. On average you are going to take at least 2 shots with a it before you have to reload. And this is even not accounting for the fact that you might actually pass a 6+ ammo check or reload it with tactic shenanigans. STR4 AP-1 D2 and Rapid fire makes for the ultimate optimised champion popping profile. Boltgun is extremely underpriced for what it does compared to the rest of weapons from bolt family.

Bolt pistol is fairly overpriced for what it does though. Heavy bolter is okay, but is a lot more prone to running out, you can expect it to fire from 1 to 3 shots before having to reload, unless you roll 1 FP each time you use it. But at this point why not just use bolter?
 
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Kiro The Avenger

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Yeah the bolt pistol is pretty crap.
For 5cr more you can get a plasma pistol, which is just way better.

The bolter is one of the most cost effective weapons in the game.
Shatter shells (from the black market) are also extremely effective, giving the bolter a pretty effective blast profile.

Heavy bolters are okay. They hit harder than bolters, but they're much more expensive, take two slots, and are much more likely to run out of ammo.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
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The bolter is the second best basic weapon in the game (second only to the enforcer boltgun), there is no competition here.
The heavy bolter is one of the best heavy weapon in the game, if not the best. The only reason it's only okish is that heavy weapons in general are a bit overkill and everyone who can take one can also take the more cost-effective grenade launcher.

As a side note, Munitioneer is not that good for Am6+ weapon as it doesn't even make them 5+ (it decreases the probabilibiliy for the weapon to go OoA from 14% to 12% per shot (26% -> 22% for RF2) against 11% for Am5+ (21% with RF2). Not useless, but not fantastic (way better with Am4+ or 5+). It does help with reloading though.

Also, the tables linked by @JawRippa were made in the context of a proposed house-rule and the vanilla version should be less harsh. (edit: or not)
 
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JawRippa

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Also, the tables linked by @JawRippa were made in the context of a proposed house-rule and the vanilla version should be less harsh.
Your table did have a probability for a vanilla AM6+ check, unless I'm misunderstanding something?
Edit: Regarding Heavy weapons, not only they are overkill, but Plasma Cannon does pretty much everything you want for a price of a heavy stubber. Its like a scaled up bolter that wounds T3 on 2+ and with an option to fire a blast with unstable.
 
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Squee

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During our first campaign we figured regular Bolters are so cost effective, that they're basically an auto-pick. To alleviate that somewhat we houseruled bolters to be Special and not Basic in any future campaigns.

I wouldn't bother too much with special ammo to begin with, but later on do look at the Shatter Shells - blasts are overall a pretty useful tool and adding one to an already great weapon when you can afford it is definitely not going to hurt.
 

Kiro The Avenger

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The gas shells are garbage. You pay all those credits for one shot, and only one shot. Not only that but taking that shot jams your bolter! No thank you.

Gunk is meh, you could use them to set up a flamer or something, or you could just kill the target outright.
All the others suffer from much the same "why not just kill them anyway?" type stuff.

Shatter shells are great. They give the bolter some extremely valuable blast capability for when targets bunch up or you want to hit someone behind cover.
 

MrAndersson

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Sep 18, 2018
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Boltgun is an extremely cost effective weapon. Bolt pistol, like most short ranged weapons, is overpriced.

Specialty ammunition is pretty garbage. Most of it carries the Limited trait, so you pay extra for it every time it runs out of ammo.

I don't understand why some people are so fascinated by blast weapons. Yes, they can cheat cover. But going from strength 4 and damage 2 to strength 3 and damage 1 is not worth it. Especially since you lose rapid fire in the process. And you pay extra for it. Shatter shells are a trap.
 
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Petitioner's City

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It's definitely a case that all ammo can be useful, if it was properly scaled. I just wish
  1. it was better integrated into the game's scales of economy (so it didn't cost as much a quarter, half or more than the item it is being used for - i.e. ranged weapons are too cheap in general!)
  2. and/or all ammunition (included standard ammunition) was paid for and/or was costed into an upkeep system. Arguably (although it wasn't rating based) the old income chart did essentially account for 'buying ammo' among its tax on income earned, but upkeep systems could be determined in other ways too.
  3. Limited could be a great role-playing trait except that - in a hive situation where anything could break - it should be something which could affect anything and not just apply to ammunition and grenades. As it stands, it isn't very role-playing-y - it would be better if everything was 'limited' in that anything could break or erode between battles (roll a D6 for each fighter, on a 1 one random item they have has eroded beyond use and is removed from their fighter card). We did this in an uprising campaign's third phase and it was fun!
 

BadCompany000

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Jan 15, 2019
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This is just a thought and I haven’t checked out if it’ll work rules-wise, but if you bought gunk rounds for a Heavy Bolter and you rolled the ammo symbol, can you revert to normal Heavy Bolter ammo? Or do the gunk bolts completely replace the normal bolts?
 

JawRippa

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This is just a thought and I haven’t checked out if it’ll work rules-wise, but if you bought gunk rounds for a Heavy Bolter and you rolled the ammo symbol, can you revert to normal Heavy Bolter ammo? Or do the gunk bolts completely replace the normal bolts?
It completely depends on what ammo are you using when firing a gun. For example if you have dum-dums on a stubgun, you can announce that you are shooting with normal rounds to save dum-dums (obviously this should be done before measuring distance and rolling).
 

Heart of Storm

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I don't understand why some people are so fascinated by blast weapons. Yes, they can cheat cover. But going from strength 4 and damage 2 to strength 3 and damage 1 is not worth it. Especially since you lose rapid fire in the process. And you pay extra for it. Shatter shells are a trap.

Because a 4+ to hit S3 D1 shot is more reliable than a 6+ to hit S4 D2 shot.

Blasts help deal with heavy cover, and a good Necromunda board should have plenty of cover.
 
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MrAndersson

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Because a 4+ to hit S3 D1 shot is more reliable than a 6+ to hit S4 D2 shot.

Blasts help deal with heavy cover, and a good Necromunda board should have plenty of cover.
I hear this all the time.

The scenario you paint here is one of the few were shatter shells would actually be viable. But this discrepancy (4+ to hit for shatters, 6+ for normal bolts) only happens if ALL of the following are true:
- the shooter has a BS no better than 4+
- the target is in full cover
- you are shooting at long range
- the shooter has not been able to take an aim action
- the shooter does not have Trick shot

And even if you are in the situation you describe, regular bolts still have a better expected damage output, which means that for shatters to be an advantageous choice, you must have multiple targets under the blast, or pinning the target must be more important than dealing damage to them. And there are definitely situations where that is true, but are they common enough for the investment into shatter shells to pay off?
 
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