N18 Book of Judgement discsussion

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,947
1,643
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Kristiansand
A discussion for all things related to the latest release "Book of Judgement".

There are already some related discussions going on, but none of them are for the book as a whole.

Collected Errors/Typos in The Book of Judgement

Black Market's new stuff discussion/clarifications

Regarding xenos tech - the illegal trading post
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,947
1,643
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Kristiansand
There are many interesting and frustrating things in this book. The errors are nicely summed up in the discussion linked to above.

Recently noticed a very minor detail:
The Hypnosis and Unbreakable Will Wyrd Powers are now more "official", no longer being unique to Genestealer Cult. As expected, they are in the "Telepathy" category. Those categories have no in-game effects (yet), but it's nice to see them take a step up from pdfs and become more official. Unfortunately, the Scouring is still different from the Chaos Cult wyrd power. So we currently have 2 Scouring wyrd powers existing in parallel. Chaos got the better version.
 

el_guestos

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
184
97
28
Leeds, England, UK
Have to say I really like the book, not 100% convinced by Xenos weapons in the underhive but they do make a very nice arbitrators tool. All in all i'm loving all the new ideas GW are throwing at this.
 

Squee

Juve
Jan 11, 2019
18
20
8
The new book leaves MUCH to be desired, to tell the truth. They seemingly haven't fixed a lot of fundamental issues with Campaign system, i.e. Underdog mechanics. The new campaign is basically just a reskin of Dominion with Rackets instead of territories and a bit more emphasis on capturing enemy gangers and selling them, but only for lawful gangs. This and the fact that Chaos gets a permanent -2 on the regular market not being able to go lawful makes me a bit angry. Actually, very angry.

Granted new sub plots and rackets are much better thought out than Dominion sub plots and territories, but still not perfect. The new campaign also seemingly has flat out more cash flowing around, which, depending on your meta, might be a bad thing causing spam etc.

Unfortunately, the Scouring is still different from the Chaos Cult wyrd power. So we currently have 2 Scouring wyrd powers existing in parallel. Chaos got the better version.
I'd say that the version from BoJ is better than all previous Scourings - it allows you to immediately shoot a template on casting, thus you can move and burn things. Scourings from both Chaos PDF and BoP require you to cast it and then shoot with a separate action, which makes it AT BEST highly situational, but in reality actually unusable. In the meta around me it's inconceivable to use Template weapons without also moving, and we don't even have Van Saar gangs.
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
1,947
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Kristiansand
The new book brings a lot of new content:
  • Increased complicated rules, adding loads of new dimensions to the game. Specially related to Outlaws having a separate Trading Post (Black Market), separate Hive Scum (Outlaws) ++.
  • More new weapons, ammo and items (very difficult to organize, probably around 200 unique weapon profiles for the game now!)
  • 3 new pets (Black Market)
  • 1 new Brute which also has "rarity" (Illegal rating), guess all previous brutes were "common"?
Some reprints I'm never happy about:
  • Campaign core elements (injury, xp ++)
  • Starting/maintaining Alliances (now fully fleshed out, was limited to only Guilders in the previous book)
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
116
170
53
Ljubljana
Overall I like this book and the ideas it brings to the game very much.

That said, the amount of typos and errors make me think half of this stuff was copied directly from an unreleased 40k RPG source books' notes from 2 editions ago, when similarly named rules/traits had different effects than now (like the Unwieldy trait on Power fist).

I agree the Rackets and Intrigues seem to generate a lot more credits, reputation and more free hired guns and bounty hunters (I guess they finally realized that if you're not hiring them effectively for free, almost nobody is willing to overpay (in-game) to field those nice resin characters from FW), which can make for a very accelerated/explosive gang's growth (when a gang manages to 'unlock' some of the enhanced boons for controlling related rackets they can easily gain 200-300 credits worth of free items/recruits and by chance gets another 200-300 credits from 1-2 intrigues, you might very well see some gangs effectively doubling their rating in 1-2 games if they are lucky.

One important factor in my opinion is the introduction of Guild bond rackets, that assure the controlling gang to be able to always field the associated merchant guild allies' entourage (no random 'reputation' checks required), which actually motivates players to go an convert the entourage for the guild(s) they want to ally with, knowing they will actually be able to use them in game regardless of dice luck.

I am going to integrate the Law alignment, Rackets and intrigues in my group Dominion perpetual campaign, but since Rackets seem to be more profitable I was thinking of a 'limiting factor' of 'a Gang can't gain more Rackets than they control Territories, as in you need to acquire a new territory, before you can claim a new racket.

Starting gangs get 1 guaranteed Settlement territory and 1 randomly drawn racket. The starting Settlement can support one additional racket, so gangs can chose to challenge either for a territory or for a racket on their first game. Also the challenged gang can either stake the same thing the challenger or can declare they are staking a different rackets/territory on the outcome of the battle and after the game the winning gang gains whatever their own stake was (meaning both gangs can actually fight for the same racket/territory reward, or for different 'objectives'). This way order of challenges (who challenges others first) should work out in a more balanced manner I think...

Anyway, this book got me excited to actually convert a whole bunch of models I had ideas for (Slaver guild entourage, Corpse collectors, custom Bounty hunters and Hive scums), but didn't really consider making since my gang's Rep is already over 12 (meaning that Guild allies would never come to play for my gang, under the Book of Peril's rules).

All in all the BoJ is imo a great addition to Necromunda (only gripe is that it makes the Book of Peril somewhat lackluster in comparison, but that is probably just New-shiny-toy syndrome speaking:)
 

KA7777

Ganger
Jan 19, 2018
150
129
48
Canada
The new book leaves MUCH to be desired, to tell the truth. They seemingly haven't fixed a lot of fundamental issues with Campaign system, i.e. Underdog mechanics.

<snip>

The new campaign also seemingly has flat out more cash flowing around, which, depending on your meta, might be a bad thing causing spam etc.
It's worth noting that "more credits for everyone" is one of the single best solutions for addressing Underdog problems.

Scenario randomization prevents it from being an absolute solution. You'll occasionally roll a scenario where Rich Gang gets to throw 20 fighters at Poor Gang's 10.

But at this point in the game's life the Sec Mec scenarios break down roughly 1:1:1 between "limited crews," "full crews," and "limited crews that are gradually augmented by reinforcements." An actual quick count looks like 7:4:6, so "fair" scenarios actually have the highest representation overall (although every campaign probably practices a slightly different discipline for making the scenario roll).

Once a gang's wealth hits the ~1500 zone they become mostly capable of tangling with even richer gangs in all of the "limited crews" scenarios. That credit level is enough to cover 10 geared fighters, with armour and dangerous toys. For that reason I'm largely in favour of more money floating about in any campaign.
 

Squee

Juve
Jan 11, 2019
18
20
8
It's worth noting that "more credits for everyone" is one of the single best solutions for addressing Underdog problems.
Have to disagree on this one, as it's not the overall credits that's important but difference in credits. As it is now the gang with better rating stands more chance to win and as a result more chances to get the territory or racket and with it the ability to generate even more credits even faster. It's a catch 22 where in order to get more cash generators and catch up to topdogs you need to win games, but you need creds to get decent chance of winning. And increasing the rate at which those creds are generated doesn't necessarily change much here, cuz by the time you get solid equipment the topdog will be sporting Astartes grade toys and here we go again.

The new sub-plots seem to have the potential to alleviate that somewhat, especially with fixed rewards, instead of rolling them (for whatever reason I roll below average on most income rolls). Then again it's might be pretty difficult to achieve those plots if you're getting blown off the board with MC Multi-Meltas and Lascannons. We'll have to test that.
 
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TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Noticed my new favourite item: Reflec shroud. A 5+ save that ignores all AP from las, melta and plasma weapons! Perfect against cheesy Van Saar. Add Armoured Undersuit on top, and you have a very decent 4+ save.
 
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Scott Doyle

New Member
Apr 30, 2016
2
1
3
I'm probably being an idiot, but I can't find the full rules for the Vigilance Pattern Assault Shield anywhere. The stat line is given on page 100, which mentions it has the 'Assault Shield' trait, but I'll be damned if I can find that in any of the books
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
116
170
53
Ljubljana
I'm probably being an idiot, but I can't find the full rules for the Vigilance Pattern Assault Shield anywhere. The stat line is given on page 100, which mentions it has the 'Assault Shield' trait, but I'll be damned if I can find that in any of the books
The Weapon traits introduced in the BoJ are detailed on page 127: The Assault shield trait (first on the list) is the same as the Energy shield trait from the pre-existing Van Saar's energy shields.
 
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Scott Doyle

New Member
Apr 30, 2016
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The Weapon traits introduced in the BoJ are detailed on page 127: The Assault shield trait (first on the list) is the same as the Energy shield trait from the pre-existing Van Saar's energy shields.
You, sir, are a legend. I swear I read every page twice and still missed it! Thank you!
 
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TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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Yes, that's my impression. It's not gonna have any effect with the friends I play with, because we completely ignore fighter cards and equipment sets anyway.
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
116
170
53
Ljubljana
The void born scum look interesting, strength and toughness 5 armed with
Autopistol/laspistol and knife and two in a shore party. Are these meant to be Ogryns?
The general consensus is that their stat line is most likely a typo (maybe just mistakenly swapped with the Bosun's statline). The only other entourage with an Ogre statted bodyguard is the Water Guild's Syphoning delegation and they get only 1 such brute, so it make little sense for this other entourage to get 2 Ogre-statted grunts, especially for them to be armed with tiny knife and laspistols?
 

Chitriel

Ganger
Dec 11, 2017
160
192
48
Denmark
I think the general consensus is that the Bosun and the Void Born Scum have had their profiles switched around.

Two of the listed statlines in a shore party seem rather overpowered, and fluffwise Void Born are almost exclusively described as physically very weak (an effect of being born and growing up in low gravity).

Edit: Totally ninjaed by @Baffo