N18 Book of Judgement discsussion

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
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Ljubljana
The lack of a bond for the Iron Guild might be in part because they don't have a delegation (they just send Hive Scum) and because their benefits are solely $AVING$! HOT BARGAINZ 4 GUN! which, in the already higher-income Crime & Misrule campaign, could quickly get out of hand even if they didn't have an easily exploitable loophole. My group is leaning toward banning the Iron Guild outright since it would take too much work to fix them and even then, they would be far less interesting than the other Guilds.
Locally we're limiting the Iron guild's 'Guns, guns, guns' benefit to apply to one weapon bought per character making the Trade action at the Trading post (so effectively it becomes a more 'gun-specific' Savvy trader skill for leader/champions that go trade after battle) and you roll the D3 for the discount for each item separately as you commit to buying it (so you can't roll the max discount by luck and then decide you'll buy all the most expensicve guns, knowing you'll have the max discount for all of them). Granted it is still a powerful benefit but more restricted than RAW.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Guilder
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
Was looking at the Guild Bond Rackets. While controlling the Racket, the Law Abiding gang forms an automatic alliance with the Guild. What if there already is an alliance? That is broken/replaced? What if you control one Guild Racket, then claims a new one from winning the stake of a battle? Can you choose? Will the new one automatically replace the old one? What happens with the old one, is it discarded?

Let's say the campaign consists of 3 gangs, each gang plays 3 fights, and after Phase 1, each gang controlls 3 Rackets (including 1 Guild Racket) each. If in one gang steals a Guild Racket in Phase 3, the other gang loses it. The winning gang gains the new? And winning gang's existing Guild Racket is discarded, since there is no longer a pool of Rackets that the gangs can claim?

Even if the challenging gang does not want to claim the opponent's Guild Racket, if the opponent has the Whisper Brokers Racket, they can decide which Racket is at stake, so you could force an unaware challenging opponent to lose their existing Racket and Alliance?
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
135
218
53
Ljubljana
Don't forget the Bond rackets state 'a gang can never control more than 1 Guild bond racket', so if 2 fighting gangs both have guild bonds, they can't effectively take them off each-other.
About the 'Automatic alliance question', I'd say if you are already in a different alliance, you have to declare that you either keep your original alliance (and use the 2x Hive scums and 1x bounty hunter benefit instead of bringing the Guild's entourage) or use the Automatic alliance from the guild Bond to swap to the bond alliance. After that you can't take control any other guild bonds so this situation should not repeat.
 

TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
Ok. Keep in mind, in Phase 3, you can only steal Rackets from other players. Any leftover unclaimed Rackets from Phase 1 are discarded.

And, if you lose the Guild Racket, is the Alliance also lost/broken?
 
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TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
I'm a little bit uncertain about some of the Racket rewards.

Proxies of the Omnissiah
if the gang controls [...] all fighters in the gang may add either the Shock trait or the Seismic trait to one of their weapons for free. New weapons purchased later may also be given this Trait. These weapons also gain the Unstable trait. If the gang loses control of this Racket, the weapons that gained these additional Traits lose them.​
Witch Seeking
Whilst in control [...] all fighters in the gang may add the Shock trait to one of their weapons that has the Melee trait for free.​
The wording is different here. What happens to new weapons purchased later? What happens to the weapons after losing the Racket? Do you have to decide which weapons are affected first time when taking control of the Racket, or can you change your mind before each battle?
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
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218
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Ljubljana
Doesn't it say under the Racket's Boons 'general rules' that all Racket boons are 'in-effect' as long as the Racket that provide them are under the control of the gang (aka fighters gained from Recruitment boons leave the gang if you lose their racket, 'free' items gained from Equipment boons 'disappear' from your stash if you lose the racket, ecc... which is in line with similar boonson territories like Prometheum stash or Sludge sea).

Even in the specific wordings you mention it says 'If the gang controls' and 'Whilist in control' (wording more in line with the Territory wordings), meaning both effects/upgrades are available WHILE you keep control of the Racket.
Granted the wording in the second example seems to be incomplete (it doesn't spell out that you can add the extra trait to newly acquired weapons and lose it if you lose the Racket, but that is how this type of benefit seems to work in most other examples we know, aka Archaeotech device territory and the Proxies of the Omnisciah reacket), but in this case I'd say it is just GW sloppy writing.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Guilder
Dec 29, 2017
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Kristiansand
Yes, you are right. It's probably just inconsistent and sloppy writing. But it can be confusing when the rules differ. They would never have to specify that the Traits are lost when the Racket is lost, but still did for one but not the other.