N18 Book of Ruin Weapons Question

[MusingWarboss]

The question is whether the "Unique" title takes them OFF that "equipment list." And again, we still don't have anything on that sheet that says it does or that says it doesn't.

I don’t think we will until they explicitly publish it either way.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

The Core Rulebook however overrides any previous Trading Post as you would expect of any more recent update - that includes any weapons or wargear they’ve chosen or forgotten to put in it.

Annoyingly The New Core Rulebook does not say it overrides any previous Trade Posts. Any sane person (which may or may not include folk like us who insist orcs are fungi) would assume it does and it would have taken very little ink to state it was. Seriously all it would need was a single line at the opening saying "The following is the upto date Trading Post at Time of Printing". There is a lot of room on that first page for that one line.
There is a sidebar on there (I think i have mentioned it previously on this thread) where it acknowledge previous publications have Trading Posts and Black markets and how the Rarity and Illigallity of those products items is updated to the revamped mechanics so they acknowlege that they are still around.
Common sense vs. Copy/Paste
Isn't GW a FTSE 100 company now? Can they not get a proof reader?

Y’know, things you might actually want to quickly refer to. I’ve never ever needed a sheet to tell me what weapons are available to my gang. They’re in the books and I hardly need to refer to them mid-game.

So why did they feel the need to tell us this information specifically? Rather than putting in something unique and fun, like that booklet with three mini missions, or another tactics card?

How often do we need to quickly find out what weapons Van Saar have which are unique to them??? Or any other gang.

"Look some friendly gamer fish! Lets put some random probable pointless bait on the hook and see if they bite!"

I remeber when hardcore model gamers ran things. You got nice arcticles debating the most lucky way to roll dice and such.

The Core Rulebook however overrides any previous Trading Post as you would expect of any more recent update - that includes any weapons or wargear they’ve chosen or forgotten to put in it.

See above. Common sense says it does and then they put a little sidebar in to confuse things and give a shread of inconclusivness.
I wonder if they want to drive Rules Lawyers insane?.

How often have they updated something in this game only for it to bugger up something else because they didn’t take into account it would do that?

Often doesn't even start to cover it.

Don’t we have entire threads devoted to that kind of nonsense on each book release??


That seems to be a constant in these Necromunda publications!

I'm Convinved they are doing it with Clear Malice.
Maybe its because they work around so many deamon and monster figurines?

 

[MusingWarboss]

There is a sidebar on there (I think i have mentioned it previously on this thread) where it acknowledge previous publications have Trading Posts and Black markets and how the Rarity and Illigallity of those products items is updated to the revamped mechanics so they acknowlege that they are still around.

I think they have to, as they kept putting them in!

At one point they promised (somewhere) that they would create a rolling PDF of the Trading Post which would be the most up to date one and therefore the one to refer to.
Which they did release, then promptly ignored and continued printing Trading Posts in books!!

I think the notification that the Core books trading post details are updated suggests that the old ones are outdated. That’s common sense thinking though and clearly forbidden these days.

The landscape of the Trading Post has clearly changed over the years. It seems the initial idea was that there were to be multiple, then you’d choose which one to send your fighter to in the appropriate phase.

That explains a basic TP, Badzones, Black Market and probably this stuff from Ruin. All 2018/19 releases.

It seems though that they’ve been moving to bring it all into one as that’s probably easier to manage (and less confusing for people who don’t have access to them all) rather than multiple scatter access several publications.

The fact it now appears in the updated Core *suggests* (dangerous assumption) that this is now the Master List and any future references to access the TP/BM will just go tell you to look in your Core Rulebook.

But we’ll all know they’ll probably print another one in another book and confuse us all again!

I'm Convinved they are doing it with Clear Malice.
Maybe its because they work around so many deamon and monster figurines?

It’s possibly the worst ruleset they produce for clarity by a clear margin. Topics discussing that facet of their writing literally go back to 2017!!

 

[Aulenback]

I think the notification that the Core books trading post details are updated suggests that the old ones are outdated. That’s common sense thinking though and clearly forbidden these days.

I think the notification that the core book’s trading post details are updated suggests that anything that is changed has changed, and anything that isn’t, maybe hasn’t. That seems to be exactly the meaning of the sidebar saying that anything that has changed here has changed, but that there are other trading post contents in other books.

Something something common sense. Mileage, of course, may vary.

 

[MusingWarboss]

That seems to be exactly the meaning of the sidebar saying that anything that has changed here has changed, but that there are other trading post contents in other books.

It says:

THE BLACK MARKET, RARITY AND LEGALITY RATINGS

Older publications may reference the Black Market, treat any of those abilities as referencing the Trading Post instead. Additionally, they may reference Rarity or Legality ratings - in these cases replace them with Rare (X) and Illegal (X).

For example, a Rarity rating of 8 becomes Rare (8).

So it acknowledges them but doesn’t say anything about going off and using older lists.

The fact that there is an updated Trading Post in this very book suggests you use that - otherwise what’s the point of it being there?

There's no point in saying “when you see a reference to the Black Market in an older publication, go and visit the Trading Post in a completely different book - which doesn’t actually have any Black Market items in it”. Especially when this one in the Core Rulebook (clue in name) has all of the BM items in it along with the rest of the TP and it’s now just all called Trading Post.

All the Trading Post section says is this:

The following pages contain rules for all of the weapons and Wargear available to gangs and fighters through the Trading Post.

Players should note that, unless they are included alongside special ammo types, the various weapons unique to the Clan Houses of Necromunda (such as the advanced las weapons of Van Saar or the iconic polearms of Cawdor) are not included in this list. Such weapons are available only to gangs belonging to the Houses that manufacture them and can be found within the gang's own equipment lists. Such weapons are not normally available through the Trading Post and gangs of rival Houses would not consider using such weapons. These weapons are so closely linked to the cultural identities of the Houses that using such a weapon is simply not done in Necromundan culture. Profiles and rules tor these weapons can be found in the relevant supplements.

We’re quibbling over semantics here again though.

“The following pages contain rules for all of the weapons and Wargear available to gangs and fighters through the Trading Post.”

“But they don’t include the one from Book of Peril!!”

No, no they don’t. Presumably they didn’t bother putting in rules for anti-plant shells and grenades when there aren’t actually any rules for vegetation in any of the other books other than that one.

It sits back and it’s 2019 Hay Day of being a completely separate list which is to be used in addition to the regular list. Now, the question is does the things from BoR also still sit as an optional extra plug-in to a regular list or has it been effectively outdated?

The rest of that information in the trading post section in the core rulebook basically just reiterates exactly the same sort of thing we’ve seen printed time and time again, which is that there are various weapons unique (whatever definition that is supposed to be) to various Houses and that they won’t use any weapons from any other House and weapons unique to those Houses are to be found within the publications for those Houses.

The fact they keep using the word House or Clan Houses is actually quite annoying since outside of the main six, everybody else is a faction not a house and it would be nice to know if the factions follow the same rules as the houses - though I think we can probably assume they do.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Cheap filler? Yeah… but why a sheet telling you “these weapons are for these gangs” rather than something more useful in-game, like… a quick reference sheet of skills or traits.

There are no shortage of cheap filler quick reference sheets from GW! I got loads of them. All wrong and outdated. Just like this particular one. Some sheets may have skills, others may have traits. In this WD, GW decided to make a collection of weapons that you wouldn't find in a typical universal weapon profile tables. For example those in any random rulebook. So with this next to a rulebook, the idea might be as simple as to cover most weapons you'd normally see?

The goal isn't to say what weapons are available to each gang. The goal is to have a summary of weapons you wouldn't find in a normal/universal weapon profile table. You know, those GW reprints ad nauseam in rulebooks. This content wasn't instead of something unique, new and fun. It's in addition to. The WD itself includes "new" scenarios, underdog bonus system or whatever.

GW experiments with wepaon profile tables all the time. One time I remember seeing weapons split on type, for example shock weapons, swords, knives, power weapons. Of course this isn't really feasible because many weapons belong to a multitude of such categories (power sword for example). Yet they did it. That one time.

 

[Beebopalulla]

There is two things that I see in the comments. One that white dwarf is legit but the last time there was an article about necromunda date back several months and is therefore outdated.

So unlike kill team for example we can see release but no support at least not in terms of communication.

Also unlike more popular games who have regular balance cost necromunda does not.

What I understand of this is that GW understand that he has a population of gamer that is eager for content but not so much for publication.

In short they know we are mostly old men and we don't need that someone hold our hand. They know we don't need painting guide, update as often as other games.

Therefore our greatest strength, autonomy is their worst communicating weakness .They don't need much advertisement to sell us miniatures and books.