N18 Book of the Outcasts discussion

[Heart of Storm]

So, I've got my hands on a copy of the book, and am currently working my way through it, and noted that there are some tangential chats on the forum about some of the books contents, but no centralised discussion space about the book itself.

So I figured I'd create one so people can comment on the book and make observations and ask questions.

I did note that GW has stressed the optional and modular nature of this book and its contents, and its most controversial section (being able to turn anything into a leader) is heavily caveated with a "make sure people agree you can do this" disclaimer, so i get that even GW recognises the game-breaking potential here, on the flip side I applaud them effectively slipping the reins here and giving players the space in the rules to run hog wild with their imaginations.

My first thought (which probably shows how unimaginative I am) was that an Ammo Jack leader was going to be incredible value for money, 50 creds for a BS3+ model with a boltgun, mesh and a power hammer is silly. That said it has T3 and a single wound, and the leader loss penalties for outcasts are a thing...

I also clocked the M7 BS2+ optional leader statline, which is insane, I guess its so you can play Eldar? Still, utterly nuts.

Looking at affiliations, the noble, criminal and merchant ones allow you to access any unique weapons their various entourages come equipped with, beyond the Cold Traders Sling Gun, are there any other unique weapons worth noting?

 

[BranBuccarcher]

I was thinking of doing one based off of a tech trader, but like the ammo jack would be very poor survivability.
Being able to tailor you archetype is quite nice although shame the champs can't get savant tree only a mastermind LD can, that and 1A as well means brawlers not much of an option...

 

[Kross]

A question about the leader. The book says I can take any model to be my leader. When the leader is chosen do I equip him following the book of the outcast leader section or do I use the section from the book he is from.
For exemple, if I want an Ogryn boss to be my leader, am I limited to the equipment Ogryn have access to?

 

[Heart of Storm]

So, rules are you either give them the weapons they come with, or choose new weapons from the outcast gang leader list (e.g. the Trading Post)

However the book also says you should agree with your arbitrator (or if like most people you don't have one, the people you're playing)

 

[SweetOrbMace]

I really love this book, I think it’s 2nd after Book of Peril for me. Love the options and the scope it adds.

We’re going to start an outcasts campaign in our group in the next few weeks. One thing I noticed was that there doesn’t seem to be a mechanic for regular income - all seems dependent on territory rewards. This will be especially challenging if using the scenario generation table in the book as the new scenarios don’t have credit rewards.

I like the idea thematically (the gangs are out in the sticks and aren’t going to have access to cash and new supplies). However, to my mind it runs the risk of leaving out one of the most enjoyable parts of the game - upgrading your gang. Also, for Escher players, it risks really limiting access to their core gimmick.

Will be interesting to see how it goes. I’ll report back here with what we find.

 

[EAfirstlast]

Escher being kinda screwed is normal though XD

 

[TopsyKretts]

I'm tempted to believe Outcast having grenade launcher stun round with rapid fire as intentional. What do you think? It is a very weak ammo having S2, so rapid fire wouldn't necessarily hurt. It got rapid fire first in House of Chains (2020), but also in the trading post pdf (2021) after Outcast book. On the other hand it didn't have it in 2019 (Judgement, FAQ & Uprising rulebook).

 

[Tiktaalik]

I chose the Van Saar brute profile+ wargear as my leader. The twin linked weapon and four servo arms are quite nice so I left it at that. I have the figure already finished so I chose something that fit the look I was going for.

i have a question related to alliances with the Imperial Imposters:
If I am affiliated with the Imposters, Can I include the Master charlatan on the roster from the outset when I’m building my gang? Will I have to shell out the 300-something credits to run him?

 

[BearsWillEatYou]

I chose the Van Saar brute profile+ wargear as my leader. The twin linked weapon and four servo arms are quite nice so I left it at that. I have the figure already finished so I chose something that fit the look I was going for.

i have a question related to alliances with the Imperial Imposters:
If I am affiliated with the Imposters, Can I include the Master charlatan on the roster from the outset when I’m building my gang? Will I have to shell out the 300-something credits to run him?

As you've not elevated the Imposter to being Leader the only way to include him in battles is with the normal rules for allies/his allied party in particular.

Some groups have assigned values to allied parties that add to gang rating, but that's a house rule. As the Charlatan didn't get an exact credit value in Book of the Outcast unfortunately we're still left guessing the proper value. 300-something is what I've seen calculated by a few people before now though.

 

[Zewrath]

Despite how broken the "chose what you want" for a leader sounds, I think it's worth mentioning that the gangers themselves are basically trash.

The way our groups have seen this gang play out so far, have been 1 REALLY strong dude + 10 hobos, so any injuries on the leader or death is basically game over for that gang.
That being said though, that 7" Mov 2+ BS profile should never have been printed in my opinion.

Also, so far we've had a blast with their tactics cards. We think they are quite entertaining and flavorful like 'We Never Liked Him Anyway'

 

[Heart of Storm]

The way our groups have seen this gang play out so far, have been 1 REALLY strong dude + 10 hobos, so any injuries on the leader or death is basically game over for that gang.

to be fair i think thats how they're intended to work, as they have that whole "death of a leader" section where if the gang leader is killed, the gang disintegrates and has to get reformed by the player around a different leader

 

[Zewrath]

to be fair i think thats how they're intended to work, as they have that whole "death of a leader" section where if the gang leader is killed, the gang disintegrates and has to get reformed by the player around a different leader

Well.. DUH!

How did I not include that point and why did that go over my head?

 

[Tiktaalik]

As you've not elevated the Imposter to being Leader the only way to include him in battles is with the normal rules for allies/his allied party in particular.

Some groups have assigned values to allied parties that add to gang rating, but that's a house rule. As the Charlatan didn't get an exact credit value in Book of the Outcast unfortunately we're still left guessing the proper value. 300-something is what I've seen calculated by a few people before now though.

in the rules that we are using, MC costs 380 points. And I can just use him as the leader? Probably not the best choice, eh?

 

[EAfirstlast]

the gang might perform best with on of the allience delegations case it at least gives you a second and maybe third awesome dude

 

[Heart of Storm]

^ that's where my heads at, outside the leader profile the other mooks in the book are rather unimpressive, so bringing a group of models in may bolster the gang

 

[spafe]

I've been toying with a 'traditional' outcast gang for our next campaign idea. It'd be led by Kal Jerico, I'd run Scabs for 100 creds as a champ (once I've cleared that with the other players), and then its something like 6 or so other guys. Running a very traditional outcast style gang to start with, just to see how it goes.

I think while the rest of the gang is trash, there is something to be said for a scummer with a shotgun being a fairly decent investment. They arn't particularly bad shots, and yes, other gangs can d oit better, but they arnt terrible for it. Add a scope later on and/or some funky rounds and they become fairly efficient.

When I was looking at it from a silly point of view, a murder cyborg (keeping its special rules rather than swapping them out) could be incredible.

 

[BearsWillEatYou]

Very tempted to pick up the Ogryn pirate for Underworlds that went on pre-order this weekend, and make him (and his menagerie) the core of an Outcast sump-pirate gang.

 

[spafe]

That would be awesome!

 

[Tiktaalik]

So… i’ve played one multiplayer game and two normal games in a goon Hammer lost zone campaign. I’m using outcasts. I have to say that the gang is somewhat underwhelming. Having access to rare items when building the leader and champions is nice but the top gangs now have access to weapons and equipment that are just as good because they have pull ahead in terms of resources and credits. The basic gangers are cheap as chips, which is a plus; I will have a real army of goons (although only the two basic territories to occupy, because I have yet to win a match) The champions are also subpar stat wise, it would be nice if they had one or more extra stat line options similar to the leader…

off topic?
Despite the lost zone rules set addressing some of the issues of snowballing, the problems of balance describEd in this thread are still there.
https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/the-fundamental-flaw-of-all-campaigns.11829/page-1

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

I was making an Outcast gang and noticed that while the Champion rules state that they begin with a Primary skill (like all Champs), but Wyrds have no primary skill besides Wyrd powers. The Psyker rules say that all Psykers can start with a single power (assumed to be in addition to their starting skill), and they can select powers as Primary skills. So the Outcast Wyrd Champion, in summary:

• Can start with 1 power, and 1 skill
• Has no primary skill set, and so cannot select a skill per their rules
• Can count powers as primary skills, so they can select a power in place of their starting skill

So... do they Start with 2 powers and no skill, or 1 power and no skill? Seems like they really do get one less benefit than any other Wyrd, all of which get a skill and a power.