They are described as skin knives in the gw product description so I guess you are on the right track for wyswyg as gw intended.
Agree it would be nice if they had their own stats maybe strong user -1ap but hey can't have everything.
Agree it would be nice if they had their own stats maybe strong user -1ap but hey can't have everything.
They work equally well as fighting knives and skinblades. Not much else they are suited for though.
And both items are of questionable use.
The skinblade is very situational, and especially in starting gangs 10 credits that could be spent better.
Even if we assume that the Cawdor fighting knife at 30 credits is a misprint, 15 credits is still quite expensive for what a fighting knife does.
Not to mention that the two gangers GW have equipped with the bit (Hauberk and Journade) both carry an Unwieldy melee weapon. So that is just throwing 15 credits out the window.
And both items are of questionable use.
The skinblade is very situational, and especially in starting gangs 10 credits that could be spent better.
Even if we assume that the Cawdor fighting knife at 30 credits is a misprint, 15 credits is still quite expensive for what a fighting knife does.
Not to mention that the two gangers GW have equipped with the bit (Hauberk and Journade) both carry an Unwieldy melee weapon. So that is just throwing 15 credits out the window.
Yup.
It’s a Common weapon that costs 15 credits at the Trading Post. So you would only ever be paying the 30 credits if you were dead set on having fighting knives in your first battle.
I would even argue that it is a pretty bad weapon at 15 credits. There really is no reason for it to cost 30, and it would hardly be the first mistake in the N17 weapon lists.
I fall on it being a deliberate decision, not one I quite understand, but deliberate none the less. Like the 5 credits lasguns and 55 credit grenade launchers in Goliath's. Some will still argue its a typo despite it being repeated in a pdf and gw3.
It seems to be deliberate to incentives certain models and builds, look at goliaths more expensive axe. In this case I think it's meant to try and get us to take more halberds. Of course access to the trading post makes this approach a little fruitless.
It seems to be deliberate to incentives certain models and builds, look at goliaths more expensive axe. In this case I think it's meant to try and get us to take more halberds. Of course access to the trading post makes this approach a little fruitless.
I am also of the impression that the 15 credit Goliath axe is a mistake.
If it is not, the price hike on Common items such as the axe and the fighting is an example of mind-bogglingly bad game design.
You can just buy these weapons for their regular TP price after the first game…
I realize this is the same issue with Gangers and access to Special Weapons.
But at this point they might as well include in the rules that the first game for any gang is never actually played. The gang should just randomly select a Juve, who then rolls on the Lasting Injury table. After this is done, the game actually begins.
If it is not, the price hike on Common items such as the axe and the fighting is an example of mind-bogglingly bad game design.
You can just buy these weapons for their regular TP price after the first game…
I realize this is the same issue with Gangers and access to Special Weapons.
But at this point they might as well include in the rules that the first game for any gang is never actually played. The gang should just randomly select a Juve, who then rolls on the Lasting Injury table. After this is done, the game actually begins.
I agree it's the trading post that causes the issues rather than the gang list. In my opinion common items should be on everyone's house list either at a discounted rate or at trading post costs. That or you get rid of the idea of common items from the trading post with everything having a rarity value(even a very low one) to represent the vaguries or supply when weapons and kit are not purchased through house suppliers. After all someone could have bought the traders last knife just before you got their in theory...
As it is we are stuck with this slightly wierd situation of the first game of the campaign potentially be not worth playing.
As it is we are stuck with this slightly wierd situation of the first game of the campaign potentially be not worth playing.
Remember that gang rating is impacted by your house weapon list cost regardless of where you bought it. I just figured expensive things were that way to make your gang rating higher...
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Where is that stated? I was under the impression that the Rating was whatever you paid for it
GW4 defines Gang Rating as "the total cost of all of the fighters in the gang, including the cost of all alternative weapon sets a fighter has".
Nothing to indicate whether the HWL or TP price is used. I personaly read "cost" as what you actually paid for the item
Nothing to indicate whether the HWL or TP price is used. I personaly read "cost" as what you actually paid for the item
Don’t know about the axe for Goliath. Remember that the spud-jacker is the same price for practically the same thing, only difference being one has ‘knockback’ instead of ‘disarm’. If they lowered this price they would have to also bring down the price for brute cleaver to still make it on par. This would leave us with the issue of the stub cannon DEFINITELY being overpriced. But I don’t know, maybe a Goliath with axe and stub gun for 70c wouldn’t be UNDERpriced
Well even if the 15 credits in the HWL is intended, they can still buy axes for 5 credits at the Trading Post.
So if it is an internal balancing issue, it only helps in the gangs very first game.
True, which begs the question if we’ll see a correction of this possibility in the nex FAQ, or if all other things for Goliath is overpriced;-)
In general, most of the HWL increases are "mis-prints" either on the Trading Post or the HWL. It's just which way (meaning is the TP number inaccurate or is the HWL) is up for debate.
They've explicitly stated that costs sometimes differ between the TP and HWL. Twice. Check up the entry to both TPs (GW1&GW3). It's true that some items are more expensive in the HWL than in the TP contrary to the example/explanation/statement from the TPs, but to draw the conclusion form this that most of the discrepancies are "mis-prints" I believe is wrong. Apart from a couple of items, like the Cawdor Fighting Knife, I think that most is accurate, albeit at times poorly balanced. So with those statements from the entries to the TP:s I'd argue that it's much more reasonable to assume that they left out the bit that some items are also more expensive in the HWLs than in the TPs. So although that neither of us can make any certain assumptions (since we're not the rules developers) it's definitely NOT anything general that any discrepancies are mis-prints, some of the most talked of examples being the GLs for Goliath or the price of Lasguns for Escher that is clearly correct.
This goes back to a thought I had a while back about N17’s original designers intentions (not the current lot who have inherited it).
I suspected that they intended Gangers* to be armed from the HWL only. Hence why they could never change weapons, because there would be no need - they would never get access to anything else.
In that way I suppose it could be designed as a mechanism to balance gangs. Though to be honest, if it was, it’s crap.
*Literally. Not Leaders, Champs, Juves.
I agree with your thoughts on intentionality here, but I'm not sure how much 'crap' is/would be as a balancing factor. I think most of us have tried out too few variables to have a clear empirical understanding of it. Even playing 20 games might not afford one this insight if the meta and players stays the same. But since it's a campaign game that most of us are talking about when we discuss Necromunda '17 I think, to be fair, that neither might the designers had enough play testing experience of the system. While at the same time we can't possibly expect a campaign system to be a completely balanced game. It doesn't try to be 40k or anything similar, but has for all intents and purposes historically (and also now) been foremost a narrative format. There seems to be a lot of bitterness about the game, and I'm certainly guilty of expressing some of it. At least when this uncertainty of how they're dealing with the support of Turf War in the face of Dominion. But in these sort of threads I believe it's sometimes good to remind ourselves that it's a fun game and that with the right gaming group works. My only REAL wish list would be for them to give the future of the TW/Dominion formats some extra time and support and to release more frequent FAQs.
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