Cawdor/GW4 Speculations/Discussions

These models are growing on me but simply won't work for what I originally intended.
As religious zealots or 2000AD neo luddites I wanted to make purists the exact opposite of admech.
So the bionics simply won't work for that. However I would consider kit bashing these with Skaven and neophytes boxset.
 
Been thinking about how bionics will mesh with the “put away the clippers” aesthetic. Pure speculation here but what if bionics in N17 is something you include on your ganger at recruitment, not a means to fix injuries? That would jive with “no clippers” and the Cawdor legs.
 
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May as well just have 10 identical figures in the box in that case. At least then you can guarantee you won't waste a cool part.

Maybe something like this:

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Which amusingly has more different basic weapon options than the new boxed set.
 
May as well just have 10 identical figures in the box in that case. At least then you can guarantee you won't waste a cool part.

Maybe something like this:

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Which amusingly has more different basic weapon options than the new boxed set.

Ha! The memories :D

I still maintain the new Orlock gang is good for variety.

I've made up 18 Orlock and have managed to get all of them looking pretty distinct, have got a lot of unique builds with sprue parts (e.g. filing down of joints for new poses, weapon/arm swaps etc.) and totally new builds which were dead easy to put together with other 40k bits: meltagun, combi-bolter/melta, heavy bolter, flamer, plasma pistol & servo claw, sawnoff and power pick, bolt pistol and chainsword. With no greenstuffing either (can't be bothered for plastic).

The only drawback are the heads - this is something the model's character relies on really heavily, and there are already 10 unique ones in the kit as-is. It needs 15-20 though.

Also worth remembering that the original Necromunda ranges only really had 4-6 "distinct" bodies per gang, and all the remaining variation was mostly attained through different poses for the arms and heads.
 
Ive managed to get a ton of extra poses from my escher with just minimum leg cutting and reposing, I agree the coat is annoying, even more annoying is the weapon packs having some weapons attached to coat arms only (unless you do some cutting)
 
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Yeah, the new kits are pretty good as far as making 5 poses look unique across 20 minis. They could be better though. I found converting the Goliaths to be a pain in the arse due to wrist thingies stopping cuts at the wrist, mono-pose necks not allowing head turning and only a single stub gun as a basic pistol. I would have preferred ball / flat jointed heads and arms as opposed to keyed joints as just reposing the head and arms can create a completely different looking mini.
 
Yep, we need more heads, and Escher hair, but there can never be enough of that. There are some new lady Sigmarine heads coming out, which may have potential.

Those Goliath wrist things are pretty good for magnetization, though, and making them into cuffs for pit slave weapons.

For the Newdor, I saw a while back one of @Jaws conversions that used a clutch type trigger on a heavy. Neat idea, and with all of those scrappy pole arms in the kit could work very nicely both in terms of theme and physical models.
 
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Yeah, the new kits are pretty good as far as making 5 poses look unique across 20 minis. They could be better though. I found converting the Goliaths to be a pain in the arse due to wrist thingies stopping cuts at the wrist, mono-pose necks not allowing head turning and only a single stub gun as a basic pistol. I would have preferred ball / flat jointed heads and arms as opposed to keyed joints as just reposing the head and arms can create a completely different looking mini.

The sprues could obviously have been better, especially with the neck bits, but I'm quite happy with them so far. Maybe my memory is still to fresh from the era when you had to go to town with a saw blade and loads of patience to cut off that metal gun stuck to the front of somethings body though. Stub guns have been no issue for me to get to work with the new Goliath sprue. I also made a third conversion that I removed after wanting to try out a hand flamer instead.
 
The sprues could obviously have been better, especially with the neck bits, but I'm quite happy with them so far. Maybe my memory is still to fresh from the era when you had to go to town with a saw blade and loads of patience to cut off that metal gun stuck to the front of somethings body though. Stub guns have been no issue for me to get to work with the new Goliath sprue. I also made a third conversion that I removed after wanting to try out a hand flamer instead.

Well yes, being plastic and multi-part they are obviously a lot easier to convert than metals. That still doesn't make it easy. I have been chopping up minis for nearly 30 years and found them more awkward to convert than any other plastic minis.

Also due to the mono-pose heads, the arms on the sprues are actually pretty limited in terms of which arms go with which body. e.g. an aimed pistol looks bad if the head is looking off to the wrong side.

I get that by having similar arm joints to a Cadian guardsman, you don't get as dynamic a pose but they're a lot easier to pose and convert. Not that GW wants you converting them with anything other than Forgeworld weapon packs as evidenced by their "no clippers" policy.
 
A Cawdor Juve with twin autopistol is 30credits.

I guess that means 20 creds for the juve and each 'repurposed autopistol' is 5 creds.

It's refurbished autopistol. Note, in the previous paragraph, "Things like refurbished autoguns are a source of dirt cheap rapid fire weapons (so what if they jam more often?)"

It sounds like they really have taken something from the Scavvies of old - less reliable weapons at a discount.
 
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Heavy stubbers, Long rifles and flamers all seem to be options for cawdor would have liked one of those on the sprue though... ,. Hmm could I mount a spare orlock heavy stubber on the crossbow "body" as a super polearm....

Chain glaves ....

Also pleased they seem to have gone down the cheaper but more likely to jam route for slavaged weapons.
 
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The tactica article looks very much like the usual GW fare: Lots of how they want things to work, not so heavy on stuff that actually works. That's just a knee-jerk reaction of course, but based on how I've found the game to play out...

Give your leader melee gear to use his higher WS
Definitely don't aim to get your fresh new leader in melee. Don't get anyone important in melee until they have a lot of extra resilience, and even then... well, it's rarely going to be the best idea. Lead from the back.

Give your crossbow guy a melee weapon because he gets melee skills
He's not taking skills, why would he take skills

Take the icon for bigger multiple activations
The ability to burn through the opponent's actions and make all the important moves reactively is one of the biggest benefits to having a larger gang, and the smaller gang needs to minimise that advantage as much as the larger gang needs to maximise it; multiple activations serve a very niche purpose and are usually a mistake. This does not seem like a useful option at all.

I mean it's fine, but it does bug me when they write up this wisdom that says 'this faction is more manoeuverable' when it plays more like an IG gunline, or 'this faction wants to get up close' when it's probably better off not bothering to try. I know they're just marketing pieces and tactics articles about tabletop games are almost universally just aimless wording on a topic that can't be meaningfully discussed in general terms, but it does hammer home how the gameplay only matches the flavour when you take it as read. Like, Goliath are the melee gang so people build them as the melee gang, but their advantages are tempered by drawbacks which mean they're not actually especially well-suited to melee, and their most important advantages apply equally well to shooting anyway.
 
Yes... @DarkNwss has also magnetised his goliaths and his better half's Escher... hopefully he'll be kind enough to take some pics and document that at some point. They are really quite nicely done, and I think he's done the FW packs too so there is a lot of variety in what he can equip the models with.

For the Goliaths it was a pain as they've got these stupid wedge fittings on the shoulders (I can see why they have them but I can still be narked about it it made the whole thing more fiddly) I didn't take pics as I went but can put up some showing the joins I have, I honestly took my queues from a guy who had done the same thing for his Goliaths.

The Escher were so much easier! I have high hopes for the ease of magnetization for Van Saar lol with the amount of options here it's the way to go (in my personal definitely not crazy opinion)
 
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Warhammer TV 2nd August on Gang War 4

Andy Hoare, studio head, and Owen barnes, studio writer, worked together in main design studio and works on SG game, background, campaign scenarios, etc., with Ceri interviewing.

GANG WAR 4

Bionics

Cawdor Owen wrote background, Tom did miniatures, someone else did rules (sorry for not catching name!).

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Bionics – when gangers injured – then can fix effects of injuries but taken further. Strong part of 40k and also necromunda – see lots of bionics in artworks – lots of Cawdors, but not so great bionics.

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2 levels – more expensive, fixing lasting injury, repair certain effects, as long as functioning. If don’t have creds, then can get mundane bionics – dug out from a servo skull lying in bin, fixing some of problem.

If you take a lasting injury on a place with a bionic, it might absorb it – but if roll a 1 the bionic is damaged or destroyed.


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But the bionics help you fix lasting injured exceptional gangers.

AH’s Escher gangers – leader took a lasting injury first game – and then avoided combat – finally corrected now.

Cheaper than buying advances to correct an injury.

This is introductory – more will come definitely come later (so not written yet?) – these don’t give advances better than correcting the injury – no super strength or seeing in the dark. They will increase rating of gang – wargear.

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Skirmish

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More to playing Necromunda than playing basic gangers – so this is taken from tournament packs – context of saying we will play 1.1 or 1.2 million blood bowl team and allow a certain number of advances. Codify and do the same for Necromunda – expanded skirmish for 1 off games and for events. AH and John French playing a lot of these lately, buying rare up to a certain value and certain advances. Play up the character of that house.

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Added a load of additional content Owen says – so unfair that weapons, brutes and pets, etc, only available during a campaign. Also allows you to create best fits – states of fighters that taken a long to develop – but you can just create them. Building an army for other games similar too.

We wrote these in Jan, and then sent out to contacts in events world, and got feedback, and so these have been tried out in the wild. These should form basis of organised play onwards – not dictating it, but a foundation to build on.

Exotic beasts

Sheen bird – repeat of two weeks ago.

House Brutes

Introduced in GW3, that any gang can take, and these extended to specific houses. Exemplifying characteristics of those houses.

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House Escher – a chimera – genetic splice, from Escher’s famous experimentations, from things they like mixed together, with claws, feather, fur, man y colours, very attractive, acid, toxic gas, etc. Face inspired by clawed fiends of dark elder, for example. Mharaid loves drawing monsters – worked alongside designers – one day will be a mini – and they are recruiting designers now.

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Zerker – jacked up – too many steroids – he’s completely expanded and swelled up into massive combat drug fuelled muscle. Goliath gone wrong.

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Orlock Lugger – guard trade routes and the lugger is armed servitor for convoy missioin, take a bunch with them. A good example of kind of things appearing in necromunda – lots of things used by gangs are officially manufactured to be weapons. Put guns on servitors on servitors that don’t have business having weapons on them because tough and useful.

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Arachnarid – pushed beyond normal limits of human-machine engineering – huge spider multiarmed servosuit – influential member of house or one of those vansaars so old – pushing 30 - bodies so wasted and ruined by radiation – that you get one and lock yourself into it and pretend god of battle and crawl up walls. Can re[lace servo arms with other guns. Dave Thomas designed actual van saar plastics very keen to make this.

Cawdor – Stig Shambler – saw a bit last week. Stigs because they bear stigmata – a semi-mutation just about tolerated – ie no weird bits – big dim-witted shambling monstrosity with little guy on back shooting machine gun. Slaw-jawed behemoth, put a sack on head, couple of nails, a guiy with gun and you are away. Idea from original round of concepts in late 2016, mark Bedford did a whole lot of concept sketches including leaders and bounty hunters, including this one – mark called this grandad and initial idea, these collect stuff – relics – and that idea taken forward.

Dominion campaign (dc)

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GW1 turf war (tw) – gonna be first format of campaign and this is second one – tw is designed to be simple league structure like with blood bowl – number of games, with final. All quite simple. This idea – no wne winner, multiple prizes, different objectless for gangs, carving out territories in underhive complementing gang. Deck of gangs – including in book so don’t need cards – but useful as arbitrator at beginning of campaign determines no of territories and deals out pool of cards, each representing a territory to be fought over. Start with one card – this cant be taken from you. Bonus from it. In first phase of campaign all cards not dealt are unclaimed and so play games for a card to claim it (eg refuse tip), and territories have benefits for all gangs and enhanced benefit for specific gang types. Fight for number of games, and end of campaign, winners are in different categories – kills, territories, reputation, etc.

In Turf War – turf represented by abstract number – but special territories small bonuses.

In DC, essentially creating area you are fighting over. Cards at start depending on number of players – essentially a dome in underhive and everyone turned up.

In second phase of campaign, every game a challenge for a territory. Fun and interesting part – the different abilities the cards have – bonus money or reputation, others more interesting – tactical bonuses – the wastes doesn’t give anything, however it allows you when someone challenges you to choose which territory they go after – you can make them fight them over sump sea rather than refuse tip. Orlock toll bridges adds priority which can be sold to other gangs. Narrative detail. Plus inspiration for boards for games. Use Gangwar 2 hazards – what are appropriate for different missions in the campaign. Rather than one winner 4 or 5 categories – warmonger winner of no of battles, creditor who earns most, dominator most territories, slaughterer most kills, power broken highest reputation.

Background – written by John French – based on campaign he and his group did in evenings some years ago. This format thus does work. Orig 40K campaign but this works and played through to conclusion. 5 dif criteria, you don’t know who is necessarily or what they are going for – so different levels. Lots of really characterful stuff – iconic parts of necromunda. Gives scale of Necromunda – all these settlements around surviving however they can.

AH and Owen hope everyone enjoys it.

Scenarios

Included because people want more scenarios – these more narrative scenarios that people do put effort into.

The Hit – little bit like ambush – risky ambush. Isolated valuable fighter and trying to kill them. This one – attacker gets bonuses – closeness to target, first shot, downside – only small crew to start with. Opponent has a few more on table and start to get reinforcements. Race against time.

Settlement attack – fun one – one side paid to defend settlement, so wall with hefty defences, traps, mines, etc – other gang trying to break in. Essentially knock through wall, to win loot

Escape – one gang trying to escape, like Ceri and Ben played two weeks ago.

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Murder Cyborg – AH’s fav – cyborg hiding in gang, as soon as one fighter taken OOA, the cyborg sheds disguise and see what their mission is. AH played many times – seems to always be his gang – making a model to represent an escher turned into cyborg. Using an assassin model, sprayed silver.

Escort – uphive agent trapped in hive, get back to his people, other people try to take him/her out.

Fighter Down – pone of fighters wounded and separated start of seriously injured and you must rescue before other gang find them. Plus rules for carrion creatures who might eat your downed fighter.

Bounty Hunters

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Betrum Arturos – noble/guilder bounty hunter

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Ortruum 88 – psyhound – works for Lord Helmawr. Andy loves the model. First psyker using new psyker rules. 1

Psychic rules

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Basic foundation – Ortruum 88 uses that

Very soon will update GSC and Chaos cult rules – to bring them into line with this system.

Includes perils of the warp.

Introduces manifest psychic power action. ALso focus action – like aim for guns – focus so as to prepare then manifest power to get bonuc.

Uses willpower, higher better.

Abilities – some double actions, some single actions. More powers as they go forward. Otram 88 has own; Magus and cult leaders will have their own powers in future revisions.

Rather than staritng off with restrictive list, will keep adding more and more.

Finish off

2 page reference in skills tables. Psast books was for in games, this for when designing characters.

--

Q. Are these books required

AH – says no. They add more to it, with each part layering extra options on top.

Q. Almanac of gang war?
AH say it is ‘on the cards' but stresses there is no specific date planned.
 
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