NCE [CE Update] Proposed Rule Changes - 2018

[undertaker]

It seems a bit odd that ammo rolls are avoided for Krak and Melta Bombs by virtue of not having to make a to-hit roll. In fact, you can never run out of Melta Bombs or have one go off in your hand, since their only use is as demolition charges.

The more I think about this, the more it seems that demolition using grenades should be part of the preceding shooting section. Treating it as shooting will also mean that the Fighter cannot run, charge, shoot another weapon or be engaged in HtH while using grenades for demolition.

A structure can be shot at just like an enemy fighter. You must therefore roll to hit and score wounds as normal. Some structures will be easier to hit than fighters because they are large targets (+1 to hit). A Fighter in base contact with a structure can instead use Krak grenades or Melta Bombs as demolition charges. This is treated like shooting in all respects (no running or charging etc.), except the target is hit automatically. Make a roll to hit anyway to see if the they run out of ammo or the bomb explodes prematurely in the Fighter's hand.

A fighter can use Krak grenades or Melta bombs as demolition charges. The device can be placed upon a structure in base contact of the fighter during his hand-to-hand phase as long as he didn't run or charge. This is considered to be shooting although no roll is required to hit. The bomb is fastened to the structure by means of its magnetic casing, it explodes, and the target is hit automatically.

This change will mean that the demolition charge hit will now happen in the shooting phase rather than the HtH phase. But I from what I can see, this doesn't really matter.

 

[Anthony]

Huh wow, completely slipped my mind that this needs uploading.

Balance-wise I can't say I have an issue with demolition being the safe option, and the lack of an ammo roll does conform with HtH attacks not requiring them. I do agree with your previous post though.

I'll just grab some grub and get uploading.

 

[undertaker]

I don't really see your logic for allowing an infinite supply of Melta Bombs. The only similarity between HtH and attaching a demolition charge is that there has to be base contact. The reason pistols don't need ammo rolls during HtH is because you use less ammo at close range.

Although pistols used in this fashion are very likely to be fired point blank, its ammo expenditure is much less than if the fighter was making a regular ranged shooting attack.

The same is not true for grenades. Firstly, you can't use grenades in HtH. Secondly, grenades are always dispensed in single units, whether thrown or attached. And thirdly, pistols can't be used to attack buildings in HtH anyway.

It would make way more sense if attaching a Krak grenade had the same risks of running out of ammo as throwing one. It's already a safer option to attach it, rather than throw it, because it auto-hits.

 

[Ben_S]

This change will mean that the demolition charge hit will now happen in the shooting phase rather than the HtH phase. But I from what I can see, this doesn't really matter.

I guess it would matter for sounding the alarm in The Raid... It's an interesting point that you make. I'm not sure what I think, but looks like it's too late now.

 

[undertaker]

I guess it would matter for sounding the alarm in The Raid... It's an interesting point that you make. I'm not sure what I think, but looks like it's too late now.

It shouldn't matter at all for sounding the alarm, since the sentry rules are still followed until the end of the turn. So it doesn't matter if the alarm gets sounded during the shooting or close-combat phase.

You're right about it being too late for the current edition of NCE though!
With a view towards the next NCE edition, could one of the people with almighty admin powers make this discussion a separate thread please?

 

[Ben_S]

It doesn't matter when the alarm is sounded, but it matters for how. I believe (rightly or wrongly) we've normally counted the number of people attacking buildings in hth as people in combat.

Also, I thought this was supposed to be the final NCE for the foreseeable future at least...

 

[undertaker]

It's a bit of a mystery at the moment whether attacking The Raid objective using HtH weapons or demolition charges sounds the alarm. The rules do not describe that situation. Close-combat fighting specifically with a sentry can sound the alarm, and destroying the objective also sounds the alarm, but demolition attempts that don't destroy it are apparently silent, especially now that the notions of HtH and demolition have been separated. It is also a bit odd that throwing a krak grenade at the structure has 97% chance of sounding the alarm, but sticking it on the side from base contact makes no noise unless the thing collapses.

I would suggest treating demolition in base contact same as shooting. Roll 2D6 and add the strength of the attack, with the alarm being sounded on 11+.

Tidying up this sort of ambiguity is exactly why I believe development of NCE should continue...