N18 Chaos cult, some advice please.

[Wookiee417]

DEMAGOGUE with flak armour, sword and autogun. Skill: commanding presence (not sure if this is the best skill for him).

WITCH with flack armour, Sword. Skill Scouring (but thinking of changing this to either Dark shield or the Fixer skill).

DISCIPLE 1 heavy Stubber and Infiltrate

DISCIPLE 2 heavy Stubber and Nerves of Steel
Thinking of swapping this load out for a long rifle and evade and then getting my leader and champs Mesh armour and an extra helot

SPECIALIST with flamer

2x Helots with auto guns

2x Helots with flails

Any tips on how to improve this set up? Not sure if I am N17 or N18.

 

[Wookiee417]

Looks like I am doing N18

 

[Adenahmadi]

Take mentor. abuse the cool 5+. Id put overwatch on both heavy stubbers.
Id drop the flails and just spam auto guns like any other cult player.
don't bother giving the witch a sword. Dark shield is better lategame when you can actually buy armour from the trading post. fixer is probably better overall. I wouldn't bother with a flamer at all.
autoguns
autoguns
autoguns.

 

[Wookiee417]

Take mentor. abuse the cool 5+. Id put overwatch on both heavy stubbers.

Mentor is a good shout, but can a heavy stubber overwatch as that gives a basic attack while firing a heavy stubber is a double action. I originally thought about throwing overwatch on them both.

 

[Adenahmadi]

Why wouldn't you be able to?
overwatch you make a shoot basic action.
Basic actions with unwieldy count as a double action.
I don't understand why youd think you would be unable to overwatch with an unwieldy gun

 

[FlatMattie]

Why wouldn't you be able to?
overwatch you make a shoot basic action.
Basic actions with unwieldy count as a double action.
I don't understand why youd think you would be unable to overwatch with an unwieldy gun

The rule states that you can make a "shoot (basic) action", the unwieldy trait means that to fire that weapon you must make a "shoot (double)" action.
I used to run a heavy stubber + overwatch until this was pointed out to me, it's a shame because this is a great way to annoy your opponent. The heavy stubber + infiltrate is amazing on 3D terrain as you can just set them up in the best spot and have them pepper the battlefield from the start

 

[Adenahmadi]

The rule states that you can make a "shoot (basic) action", the unwieldy trait means that to fire that weapon you must make a "shoot (double)" action.
I used to run a heavy stubber + overwatch until this was pointed out to me, it's a shame because this is a great way to annoy your opponent. The heavy stubber + infiltrate is amazing on 3D terrain as you can just set them up in the best spot and have them pepper the battlefield from the start

reread.
A shoot basic action with an unwieldy turns into a double action
there is NOTHING suggesting that youd be unable to do so

You make a shootbasic action. Because of an unwieldy it turns into a double

 

[Thorgor]

@Adenahmadi: it's not that clear cut
First, Unwieldy uses "Single action" which technically means nothing (action are either Simple, Basic or Double).
Then, consider the wording for Suspensors (GotU p137): "An Unwieldy weapon fitted with suspensors is far more manoeuvrable. Firing it becomes a Basic action rather than a Double action." This implies that Unwieldy ranged weapons normally use a Shoot (Double) action.
However, there is also the interaction between Overwatch and Fast Shot. Since Fast Shot turns Shoot (Basic) into Shoot (Simple), does it mean that the fighter can't fire overwatch anymore? That would be ridiculous.

I think the simple solution is to consider that, whenever they say "Shoot (Basic) action", what they really mean is "Shoot action". If a skill disallows for the use of Unwieldy ranged weapons, it will explicitly say so, as is the case for Fast Shot and Hip Shooting.

 

[Scavvierising]

I like assail for the witch. You can't start with specialist's. A ganger can take a special weapon but he is still a normal ganger.
Personally I hate spam builds they quickly become boring to play with or against so all auto gun would be a no from me.
Try the second disciple build but instead of buying an extra helot buy guns for the flail dudes maybe just get rid of the flails and give them shotguns.
Would consider giving the flamer to the second disciple and infiltrate with him