Necromunda Chaos Cultists [take 3] Chaos Cultists Gang [4]

[jimjimjimmyjim]

hey folks, for the last 2 months I took the time to rewrite the chaos cultist gang to make it come more in line with the NCE rules. I have play tested these rules in my local group, and they seem relatively balanced.

if you could take the time to read thru and consider the gang let me know what you think or if anything requires changing, for the most part its still very similar to the old cultists gang but I toned down a lot of things that I thought were simply too powerful.

also I found a list of mutations while I was searching necromunda stuff online and discovered a list of mutations someone wrote up. initially I discarded it after believing it to be too powerful, but when I came back to it I rewrote and toned down a lot of the mutations or just flat out changed them.

the rules are here:
https://yaktribe.games/community/vault/chaos-cultists-take-3.288/

 

[Santos]

Just read though it and what struck me as extremely unfair is the chaos cultist can run away even after a botched rescue attempt but the same luckless ganger held onto by the cultist doesn't. Overall (and i'm not familiar with any updates to the original Redemptionist List in Outlanders supplement) it still seems a case of get all the boons of Redemptionist and add mutations/daemons and daemonic gifts to the mix. Slaneesh priest with unmodifiable Ld 9 converting people might be extremely fluffy but its also ridiculously overpowered in a game where a lot centres around.

To be honest i stopped reading it once i hit mutations and daemon summoning.

I'd like to see a list where the chaos cultist are a little more ambigous, they aren't necessarily 'known' to be heretics but perharps they get knife edge boons until they are discovered in which case they are persecuted hard. (Maybe if they sucessfully sumon a daemon ) I don't see why the average cult wouldn't exchange and ransom for its members, but when they tell you they 'sold their capitives to slavers' they actually are sacrifising the captives. I always felt the average cultist was motivated by easy power in an opprsive imperium and foolishly turn to the dark gods.

Sorry to be such a drain but maybe the input is constructive to you

 

[spafe]

Under profile values, Could you not just say:

Standard maximum profile applies to all members of the gang, however mutations may take them above these maximum characteristics. No stat may go above 10.

Under corrupter:

You have if the captives rolls equal to the priest then he resists, and in the next line, if the priest rolls equal to the captor he converts. Which is it?

Also, would it be easier to just say you may not attempt to convert redemptionists, enforcers or rival cultists.

Why does the Zealot have access to the Techno skill table?

Under sacrifices, in modifiers. If the ganger has 100 exp or more, which one? the host, the guy performing the ritual or the sacrifice? Same goes for each group of exp the model doesnt have at the bottom, which model?

Okay, so you have rolled up lesser deamon.... so does the host take some characteristic changes and that it, then you get some other lesser deamon model (if so, what stats?) or does the host become the lesser deamon. At which point, can he use his original weapons I assume.

Should the mutation albino have a full stop after 'it suffers minus 1 ws and bs'? otherwise that sentence doesnt read properly

burning body typo: other can than hand weapons

how does cloud of flies work in combat? you roll, compare ws then roll to wound, there is not 'to hit' to be modified

is it intentional that a model may roll up daemonic visage and hideous appearence, leading to causing fear twice (basically a negated upgrade)?

I would think that plague carrier should possibly have a higher cost for scavies buying the mutation, as its quite a powerful one, but thats just a gut instinct on it

two heads probably shouldn't read that he can only target the same mutant, but that he must fire on the same target

under gifts of chaos, what does mighty blow do in weapon of chaos?

This was jsut my thoughts as I read through it on any errors I could see. Sorry if it sounds like I'm being harsh but I only mean it so it can be easier for others to read as you will know what you mean to write, but others might not.

Hope this helps

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

It's probably actually worth while you read the original cultist gang to see how much more this is toned down from the original it's based off.

Here's the old list:
http://www.yakromunda.com/index.php?pag ... Chaos+cult

The way it goes is the cult have always been paranoid of others, they worship and practice in secret. The cult have always been suspicious so even going to sell captured models to slavers is too much for them to do. But they were never given the option, in the previous roster it says they just sacrifice the captured ganger, but nothing else came of it from there. Atleast by this method they have an option.

Another thing that stood out in the old one is once you loose the original leader the new leader doesn't get the same abilities. They just get the leader ability. Whereas in my list I thought it important to stipulate how a leader turns into a priest.

Also cultists have always been a gang that gets all the similar bonuses just like redemptionists (minus the income). They were initially created as a challenge/counter to redemptionist gangs.

Anyways it's better you read the original chaos cult coven roster and then read it compared to this one.

 

[metalface13]

Just because you toned down the rules doesn't mean that can't be toned down more. Eight pages of rules for one gang seems like an awful lot. I know the Necromunda and Mordheim vary in a lot of ways, especially in the heroes/henchman aspect, but have you looked at how Mordheim treats the Cult of the Possessed warband for inspiration?

I would see a Cultist gang following similar rules to Redemptionists. The conversion rules fit for Cultists and I like the idea of adding sacrifices in somehow. Maybe a sacrifice can give the gang a leadership bonus or something for the next scenario? The cult leader could have access to a special psyker/wyrd table instead of one of the normal skills (maybe replace techno?), they should have a heavy/deacon character but instead of the Redemptionists zealot they have Possessed (you could even use the same stats/rules from Mordheim). Then you have brethern and acolytes.

Having recently read the Eisenhorn series, Chaos Cults often work in secret and behind the scene, I don't see any reason why a ganger can't discretely visit the regular trading post.

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

Under profile values, Could you not just say:

Standard maximum profile applies to all members of the gang, however mutations may take them above these maximum characteristics. No stat may go above 10.

Under corrupter:

You have if the captives rolls equal to the priest then he resists, and in the next line, if the priest rolls equal to the captor he converts. Which is it?

Also, would it be easier to just say you may not attempt to convert redemptionists, enforcers or rival cultists.

Why does the Zealot have access to the Techno skill table?

Under sacrifices, in modifiers. If the ganger has 100 exp or more, which one? the host, the guy performing the ritual or the sacrifice? Same goes for each group of exp the model doesnt have at the bottom, which model?

Okay, so you have rolled up lesser deamon.... so does the host take some characteristic changes and that it, then you get some other lesser deamon model (if so, what stats?) or does the host become the lesser deamon. At which point, can he use his original weapons I assume.

Should the mutation albino have a full stop after 'it suffers minus 1 ws and bs'? otherwise that sentence doesnt read properly

burning body typo: other can than hand weapons

how does cloud of flies work in combat? you roll, compare ws then roll to wound, there is not 'to hit' to be modified

is it intentional that a model may roll up daemonic visage and hideous appearence, leading to causing fear twice (basically a negated upgrade)?

I would think that plague carrier should possibly have a higher cost for scavies buying the mutation, as its quite a powerful one, but thats just a gut instinct on it

two heads probably shouldn't read that he can only target the same mutant, but that he must fire on the same target

under gifts of chaos, what does mighty blow do in weapon of chaos?

This was jsut my thoughts as I read through it on any errors I could see. Sorry if it sounds like I'm being harsh but I only mean it so it can be easier for others to read as you will know what you mean to write, but others might not.

Hope this helps

No thanks for that, I have explained in another thread I am dyslexic so I tend to get confused. I will make these changes as soon as I'm able

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

So everything in this list is purely based off the original cultist roster. Even the language (with exception to my typos and grammar).

Zealots on the original roster have access to techno. I wasn't sure why either but I thought maybe the idea of them using the flame canisters may have been enough!

But I do like the idea of calling the zealots possessed or something like that.

The original cultist roster was 15 pages long I have tone it down to 8 and 2 those are mutations, which you could say are not expressly part of the gang.

The sacrifices for summoning daemons fits quite well as a mechanic I have found. It's not common to capture a model it's about 1 in 12 chance of happening (assuming I have my maths right) so I honestly don't think it will come up often.

The chaos weapon has mighty blow cos I feel it's a chaos weapon! It should be good in some ways, means very little in comparison to taking a model OOA but for the sale of rolling injuries it means a lot

 

[spafe]

Ah ok, yeah you've done very well (depending on the severity of your dyslexia), as there are minimal typos that I found.

Zealots still seem strange to me with techno, and bearing in mind if you are changing things, then those tables arn't set in stone. having said that, if your happy with them having access thats fine.

ah okay, I think you are meaning high impact? thats the increased chance to outright kill the other ganger on any double on the injury table yeah? As atm I don't believe there is a mighty blow rule in necro.

Overall it seems like they get a lot of bonuses and not many downsides. They have a wide access to techno skills, access to heavies, and to heavy weapons. They can summon deamons, have mutations, and have some psyker access. It seems like it combines the best bits from house gangs, redemptionists, scavies and even gives you some monsters so you can have a level footing one on one with a spyrer. I might be wrong but it seems like a very tough gang.

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

I have made some changes and corrected many of my typos. With your help.

The way I see it is, yes it is possible to get some bad mojo with having spawn, but it's hard to make spawn survives. Nearly all the mutations have good and bad things going for them.

And daemons are good but instability can bite you in the bum as well as that fact you have to loose a decent ganger in order to potentially receive anything decent in return, and even then the model may just end up suffering from stupidity! But in order to summon a daemon you gotta capture a model after playing and rescue mission. Because cultists don't trade or negotiate.

Anyways I don't feel they are that bad they look impressive on paper but certanly aren't as the game progresses.

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

ok I made some re-edits and here it is...

I am considering making a rule where a bounty hunter will come to the aid of the enemy gang for free of charge on a d6 roll of 5+, but only if the cultists have a daemon in the gang. the bounty hunter will search out the daemon and if captured he will offer a bounty to the gang +10 credits!

what do you think?

im just looking for stuff that may balance the gang a bit. or make things tougher for the gang. I don't wanna remove the daemon entry or the spawn entry as I have put the spawn in there as a balancing device to prevent models being too powerful especially if they get several mutations as well as several chaos gifts...

the daemon entry is more so because this is what all cultists should hope to aspire too. it makes sense especially fluff wise. anyways I hope to continue to get your feedback. let me know your thoughts I have found them quite constructive

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

Anyone have anymore thoughts and feelings about the cultists?

 

[spafe]

The capture rules seem needless. They dont help with, and arn't extremely fluffy (the cultists would jsut arrange to store him somewhere that doesnt give away cult activities before they sell him back).

Also what happens if both sides capture? do they auto swap still?

I Dont think cultists should get the extra chance to escape, it makes no sense that they get this chance but other gangers dont when captured.

Can a cultist gang still attempt a rescue against redemptionists?

Is there anything to stop the gang jsut looting their territory every turn? it kind of means they can stave off having a poor roll by re-rolling a new one next game. Why do they get to do this when other outlaw gangs cant?

You need to update the text about exterminator cartridges in the equipment selection bit as it still has redmeptionist titles for who may use them.

I'm not sold on the gatling cannon being needed. If you are adding it to your capaign then fine, but as a weapon unique to cult is doesnt make sense.

I dont know how to resolve this, but the sacrifice knife and tome (mainly knife) will work/have use so rarely that I dont know if they are worth the cost, but equally they are good so should cost a lot. I guess what I mean is that I cant see many people taking the knife for the off chance it becomes useful.

is the deamonettes claw mutation factored into her profile or does she strike with str 5?

How do injuries effect deamons? what happens if they roll captured, or miss some games? if they miss some games do they still need to roll for instability after each?

Equally do they roll for instability after games in which they were not present?


Sorry, I'm mainly jsut trying to look for ways in which its abusable/things arnt clear. I've mentioned what I think of the overall strength of the gang above so I'll jsut focus on wording and how rules will interact with others?

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

I appreciate your feedback, I will endeavour to answer all your questions:

It should be pointed out that this gang roster is a revision of the previous roster. Simply because I feel it's too over powered. So I felt they needed to be balanced aloe better and have some of their costs revised. The only new thing is the ability to summon daemons.

I have tried to explain everything in its own procedure as to how cultists deal with captured gangers. The rules are simple. They don't negotiate, they will perform rescue missions, but I understood a swap of gangers - when both gangs capture models they can't swap them as this is still negotiating.

Gangers which are captured have a chance to escape slavers, this was a rule that was part of the initial roster. I felt the need to keep it in the gang rules, tho I think it worth while increasing the costs of the priest, apostle, and deacon by 5 creds to follow along with the same way that a novice and brother is more expensive.

Why wouldn't cultists be able to rescue against redemptionists?

It was my impression that all outlawed gangs were able to loot their territories if they chose to and reroll a new one. Am I wrong? The last outlaw gang I played was pitslaves (not the Anthony Case version) the way it read for them implied that they could do this, so assumed all outlaws could do this...?

Thanks for the exterminator cartridge heads up.

Once again, the Gatling cannon was part of the 1st edition ruleset. I always felt it to be useless so I have attempted to make it better via the tracer fire rule. I'm all but happy to remove it altogether!

I wanted to make the knife and time very expensive on purpose. I think they are very fluffy and can help a bit. There main focus is for summoning a daemon. But I thought they should be tweaked a little as well, by allowing them to have some in game use as well.

A daemonette is S5 in combat, due to the claw saying that its only +1S in combat not +1S to your profile. I have only included stats to profiles where it is a permanent increase.

Regarding playing in games and injuries for daemons. I said daemons that play in a scenario must roll instability. This is on the basis that not all missions allow all your gang member to take part. Eg: rescue missions, or if it has an infected wound etc...

I also said daemons are treated as normal gangers so yea they can take serious injuries, yes they can get captured, etc.... They just can't gain xp or use other wargear, even a knife.

Please don't feel the need to apologise. I appreciate the feedback.

Also I think my balance to have a daemon in the gang will be they are not able to go looking for rare trade while the daemon lives. They simply become too paranoid of getting caught by the fuzz

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

so I have tweaked things including posts of various stuff

please provide me with your feedback, I take any feedback as good/constructive cos it broadens my perspective and can also make any changes/typos or grammar I may have overlooked.

please remember this is a revised roster of the otherwise older version of the cultists gang. I have referenced the link further up the page. I felt the old gang was way too powerful and needed several revisions including costs.

enjoy

 

[spafe]

Looks really good, also reads a lot more clearly now.

Just a few points, which are pretty minor but might help a bit more with clarification:

What happens if your priest already has demi ability when summoning? is it a wasted roll as he has skill, or does it count as 13-14 and you get a lesser deamon instead?

I would put in burning body that it cant be taken with rotting flesh mutation (jsut a copy and paste with names reversed so people dont forget if they get the upgrades the other way round)

Gift of chaos - Weapon of chaos, is that an upgrade to an existing ccw? or they gain a weapon? some clarification could be needed here.

Gift of chaos - plague carrier, as this mutation can be taken more than once, is a re-roll required if they have it already and roll it on the gift of chaos table?

Should the priest have access to special weapons like all other leaders? I dont see why he wouldnt, but not sure if this was intentional or not.

Hope these help, I think thats pretty much everything I can see on it. looks like a very interesting gang to play against, I certianly would love to have a cult in a campaign

Oh and I asked about the rescue against redemtionists because it says the redems kill him 'immediately', but tbh thats prob jsut me reading it wrong, as I cant remember how thats worded in their own list etc.

 

[Margorach]

ive found a small continuety mistake

you have 0-4 apostles abut underneath it says
Zealots are subject to frenzy

you have nothing in your list named zealots :_ youve renamed them apostles

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

thanks guys I will try to amend those asap

they were called zealots but I renamed them as all the names were too close to being redemptionist names - if not exactly the same

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

also the priest does not have special as an option due to try to balance him out to prevent him from being overpowered

 

[jimjimjimmyjim]

Looks really good, also reads a lot more clearly now.

Just a few points, which are pretty minor but might help a bit more with clarification:

What happens if your priest already has demi ability when summoning? is it a wasted roll as he has skill, or does it count as 13-14 and you get a lesser deamon instead?

the list says "A Priest cannot choose to use himself as the host but will perform the sacrifice" its important to stipulate the difference between a priest and a leader, I have chosen the wording very particularly for this.

I would put in burning body that it cant be taken with rotting flesh mutation (jsut a copy and paste with names reversed so people dont forget if they get the upgrades the other way round)

thanks I have corrected this

Gift of chaos - Weapon of chaos, is that an upgrade to an existing ccw? or they gain a weapon? some clarification could be needed here.

I have clarified this, thanks again for the input

Gift of chaos - plague carrier, as this mutation can be taken more than once, is a re-roll required if they have it already and roll it on the gift of chaos table?

this is what it says above the gifts part:

"Roll 2d6 on the table below. If a model already has that same gift of chaos, roll the result again (this reroll only applies if you have the gift or mutation). If the gift comes in the form of a piece of equipment, the equipment cannot be sold, traded, captured or used by any other model other than the one that receives it. Gifts can only be received once."

but I have added a note just so folks don't get confused.

Should the priest have access to special weapons like all other leaders? I dont see why he wouldnt, but not sure if this was intentional or not.

this is a balancing device, purely used to prevent would be wyrds from having a plasma gun and awesome wyrd powers as well.

Hope these help, I think thats pretty much everything I can see on it. looks like a very interesting gang to play against, I certianly would love to have a cult in a campaign

Oh and I asked about the rescue against redemtionists because it says the redems kill him 'immediately', but tbh thats prob jsut me reading it wrong, as I cant remember how thats worded in their own list etc.

thanks a lot I hope I have ironed out some creases, I really appreciate the feedback

 

[Santos]

While i think the scavvy, ratskin and the redemptionist list all make good straight proxxies for a more balanced chaos cult in campaigns i will try to help what you are doing here by using the redemptionist list as a baseline.

#Priest
Getting a gift is a bit like an advancement roll or two over every other leader type, he is a little more expensive true but maybe bump the starting exp into the next tier of 80+d6 exp (or even 100+d6)
Omitting the special weapons ability wouldnt be nescessary
Also rename to Demagouge like its been in various chaos codexs, it differentiates it from the redemptionist list a bit more, similar thing swapping out the Novice for Initiate and Brother for plain Cultist/Cultsman/Culter

#Chosen
In general 'heavy' specialist always get shooting+muscle, losing stealth to do this might be a good idea since infiltrating heavies with a heap of mutations is OP . I think the idea of putting the cultist on the combat chart is to be the opposite of the redemptionist being 'shooting'. Given their zealots swap this for combat having the chosen shooting works here too.

#Gatling gun
Given that no other gang has access to it might it be easier to just make only the Heavy Stubber/bolter available instead? i understand the gatling might of been in the original list but its a lot stonger than a Heavy Bolter in its current form for little restriction in range. Is the need there for more variety to the list? You get to bring daemons for thrones sake!

#0-4 apostles (zealots)
Is it nessesary to put a 0-4 limit given half the gang has to be plain brethren/novice cultist anyway? It would need to be 11 member gang to break that number into 5 zealots, which if someone did do they would still be missing Chosen(deacons) from the gang. If the limitation is there to account for the other boons of chaos make it smaller than 4.

#Exterminator
Very much a purge the heretic with cleansing flames item. Given that you can summon daemons, take on mutations and tote heavy weapons perharps just ommiting them would diverge this list more from being
Redemptionist + Power

#Boltguns
Along with lasguns these are in the special weapons catorgory of a redemptionist list. Shifting it to a basic weapon spot makes it possible to field it in much greater numbers, given bolt weapons are traditionally restricted in other outlaw list putting it back in special weapons might be a good idea. In the redemptionist list novices could wield shotguns/ autoguns that ability seems gone for the chaos types. There are no bolt pistols in the old list either but making it a leader only weapon could work.

#Smoke grenades
Isn't this usually considered a rare trade item? why would chaos cultist readily have more access to them?

#Mutations
Why do they have cost of credits? Isn't it a unique advance roll?
They generaly consist of a huge amount of unique buffs that stack on each other making overpowered models.
Atrophied limb, mindless and albino seem the only real negatives in the 36 options they should probably be sitting as 11,12,13 (with mindless making excellent meatshield bodyguards)
I don't particularly like the idea of time gate allowing a model to teleport

In general for mutations maybe drop the 2d6 test to simple d6 after 3 mutations to make the chance of self-culling to many über-cultistist with a double edged sword. Alternatively d6+1 so if a model miraculously gets 7 mutations they would be Auto-spawn.

#cultist advance table
Simplify things by making a result of 2 pick any skill and 12 for gift of chaos/mutations.
Given that they get so many unique bonuses with mutations and gifts of chaos removing the ability to take any skill table completely would work well. Priest and chosen are already able to get techno which is more than the poor ratskins. If you do this the previous mentioned autocull could be set using 6+3 or 2d6

They are all things that could be toned down and/or simplified to bring it closer to what everyone else is running with. Hope it helped with your project.