NCE Charging up ladders. Blocking hatches.

[ImOutside]

My group and I may have found a rules hole last night and I would like some help with clarification.

The situation; Van Saar ganger is standing on a platform with his base partially covering the hatch above a ladder. There are 2 Escher gangers below waiting to Charge! On the Escher turn the Escher gangers attempt to charge up the ladder into HtH with the Van Saar ganger.

After some reading in NCE 2018, Moving (pg 10) says 'models cannot move through the bases of enemy fighters'. Charge! (pg 11) says the charging 'ends with the attacker touching the enemy base-to-base' and that 'models are engaged if separated by a low wall or obstacle.

My questions; is the Escher charge legal or is the Van Saar blocking the hatch preventing HtH as the Escher cannot reach base-to-base? Is it possible to block ladders and thus prevent someone from charging you?

 

[Stoof]

There's nothing specifically covering it that I can think of, but we've always played it that you can charge up ladders even if there's someone at the top. There may be some mild nudging required to get people to fit, but nothing untoward. I can see it being one that might divide opinion though! After all, charging up a ladder at someone waiting at the top would be a difficult thing to pull off in reality.

 

[ImOutside]

This is why we want to clear it up. A guy standing on a hatch is going to stop you from being able to open it.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Hmm. As @Stoof says, charging up a ladder is not exactly ideal if you meet your adversary at the top! In fact you’d be at a distinct disadvantage really as they would not only block you but you’d be clinging onto a ladder (so only one hand free) and they would be able to strike down at you from a stable platform.

Thing is do you want to rule for reality? Or do we say that in the underhive these people are so used to climbing, scrambling and so on that we just count it as normal combat.

In regards to hatches: are there any rules for them with ladders? There wasn’t unless the NCE has been updated since I last downloaded a copy. It’s not like you can lock one and prevent someone climbing. That would add a whole new dynamic to the game. Possibly a very abusable one.

 

[Stoof]

There are no official rules for hatches, doors etc in NCE. We have a house rule where you can either sacrifice your move or your shot (if you havent run) to open/close a hatch/door/portal, but it's not official. Opposed strength test (D6+S, higest wins) if someone wants to keep it shut and the other wants to try and open it or vice versa. We only need this because we quite like using space hulk tiles & doors for tunnels. We've never counted hatches on the original card scenery as being useable for example (i.e. you can always go right through without having to try and open it). There are quite a few bits of the old scenery where the ladder doesn't actually lead to a hatch, but we allow people to climb through anyway, so long as they emerge at the ladder side of the bulkhead.

Likewise there is nothing in the game about becoming engaged in H2H whilst on a ladder (I'm imagining gangers blu-tacked half way up bulkeads!)

With ladders, just letting them flow past and become engaged at the top is a simple and easy solution, which is why we've done it that way for 20 odd years

Does anyone handle it differently?

 

[Ben_S]

Here's a previous discussion:
https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/close-combat-and-ladders.4198/

My 2p worth is that you can charge up the ladder and into combat. The ladder is open ground and the target is at the end of it, so nothing stops you moving into combat with him - he stops you moving further, but once you've 'hit' him, you're in combat.

 

[Punktaku]

it’s a suicidal ganger that charges up a ladder through a hatch to an enemy that’s waiting for them...

 

[Ben_S]

Not quite 'top of a ladder' but I once had a Malcadon do a 12" charge right up the side of a tower into the face of an overwatching Heavy on the top. I don't remember for sure what rules we were using, but the Heavy must have needed a 6 to hit and maybe an Initiative check too.

 

[Blood Donor]

I like the mention that ladders are open ground and to avoid the extra particularities of heavily detailing a charge to the top. You want to stuff a charge, you should use Overwatch to do so.

...We have a house rule where you can either sacrifice your move or your shot (if you havent run) to open/close a hatch/door/portal, but it's not official. Opposed strength test (D6+S, higest wins) if someone wants to keep it shut and the other wants to try and open it or vice versa...

This is actually quite clever and could be used for some cool custom scenarios. Against hoard creatures or baddies, every additional one could increase the Strength test... roll against an objective test while trying to keep the monsters outside the room sorta stuff.

 

[undertaker]

And what happens when the second Escher wants to charge up the same ladder if the van Saar already had to be nudged out of the way to make room for the first? It's a tricky situation for sure. The best way is to decide within your group and stick to it, since the rules don't cover the situation. As far as I know NCE does not discuss fighters ending their move on a ladder either.

If I had to arbitrate I would let the first Escher charge, but the way up is then blocked for the second (as if it was a narrow walkway, except it's a ladder). Also, even though the first Escher ends up on the same level as the van Saar, give her a -1 combat score penalty for the first turn, as if the van Saar was defending an obstacle.

@Llewy posted some houserules here that cover this situation similarly. If you want to go even further you could say the fighters on the ladder can only use one hand and thus don't get the +1 attack from an extra weapon.

 

[ImOutside]

For simplicity we ruled that both charges were possible. House ruled that from now on charging up a ladder through a hatch incurs the obstacle modifier for the charger and the higher ground modifier for the chargee, totals out as +1 in favour of the chargee.