N18 Close combat attack calculations

[Tk421wayayp]

Hi all - looking for a quick check of my understanding of attacks on the charge in 2 different scenarios.....Scenario 1.) 2 attacks in base character stats, armed with a weapon with the paired trait such as spider rig, plus another close combat weapon or a sidearm. On the charge paired traits doubles base attacks to 4, plus 1 for the charge, plus 1 for having two weapons (the spider rig plus the other weapon) = 6. Reaction attacks would be base attacks of 2, plus 1 for two weapons= 3 i.e. no bonus for charging or paired as the charge action is not used so these rules don't come in to effect. Scenario 2.) 2 attacks in base character stats, armed with 2 identical e.g
swords, plus another close combat weapon or a sidearm. Do the two identical swords equate to "paired" and give the same calculation as above, OR do I only get a plus 1 attack for having 2 melee weapons? So on the charge it would simply be 2 base attacks, plus 1 for the charge, plus 1 for two weapons i.e. "paired" needs to be explicit in the weapon stats, I can't create "paired" by buying 2 separate but identical weapons? Reaction attacks would be the same as Scenario 1.)

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Scenario one. Correct as I read it.
Scenario two. You are correct in that Two identical weapons such as two power swords do not give the paired trait.
Two identical weapons does make it easier when allocating attacks so all strikes would be power swords in this case where as the if you had a power sword and a power hammer you have to split the strikes between each weapon.

 

[Tk421wayayp]

Scenario one. Correct as I read it.
Scenario two. You are correct in that Two identical weapons such as two power swords do not give the paired trait.
Two identical weapons does make it easier when allocating attacks so all strikes would be power swords in this case where as the if you had a power sword and a power hammer you have to split the strikes between each weapon.

Many thanks!

 

[Torahn]

Oh, I'd thought that Paired weapons counted as two weapons for determining how many weapons can be used in melee? As in you can only used a weapon with that trait by itself, not in tandem with a second weapon. It seems weird if you could do so, as models only have two hands (how can a model have a chain cleaver in each hand, and attack with another weapon?).

But are the rules not explicit about that by also giving Paired weapons the Unwieldy trait? As otherwise I'm not sure there's a mechanic to prevent Paired weapons yes being used with another weapon. ...So yeah, a model could have a cleaver in each hand and a third weapon in their mouth or something if that's the case.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Unwieldy doesn't work because there are ways to bypass it. Most paired weapons that are available for purchase (and combinable with other weapons) are marked as taking two weapon slots (*). Psychomantic claws are special because they are only purchaseable as included with that harness, and that has additional limitation of reducing weapon slots by 1 (so the harness including the paired claws effectively take one weapon slot) and prevent equipping Unwieldy weapons.

I think you just gotta read between the lines of the trait and with common sense it's obvious you need to split a paired weapon in both hands and so it's also used when declaring which weapons to use.

A fighter that is armed with Paired weapons counts as being armed with dual weapons with the Melee trait for the purposes of calculating the number of Attack dice they will roll. Additionally, when making a Charge (Double) action, their Attacks characteristic is doubled

 

[Torahn]

Ah right, so I wasn't mistaken. A Paired weapon takes two hands unless its an exception. Hmn, though the wording of the rule could be clearer, as it could be read as allowing a second weapon to be used (it could just say "counts as being armed with dual weapons with the Melee trait", The extra bit about attack figures opens it up for interpretation on if the Paired trait is there to give a bonus attack, or if its to count as two weapons and give the extra attack).

Curious then that the Van Saar Spider Rig wouldn't be usable with other weapons. Or rather that its Paired at all. As the model itself is just a small bionic arm that attaches to the model's shoulder I believe. Not the larger multi armed rig that their Brute wears.