N18 Collected Errors/Typos in Book of Outlands (Nomads & Squats)

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
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Sounds like an oversight. It is common for rules writers to not be aware of the full extent of the rules.
 

Matt Spencer

Ganger
Oct 4, 2016
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Nottingham
Not sure if it's an error, but it's a bit vague as to whether a fighter is pinned when taking a hit from the exhausts of a Gas Promethium Engine. Body Spikes specifies "This attack does not pin them" and Wheel Scythes specifies "if they are a fighter they are Pinned", but there's no mention of pinning in the description of Gas Promethium Engine. It functions more like Wheel Scythes, but I don't know if that means it should pin (because Wheel Scythes do) or shouldn't (because the book feels the need to clarify that Wheel Scythes do, as though it's an exception).

I guess RAW it doesn't pin (until I saw the description of Body Spikes I was confident that was the right interpretation).
 
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TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
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Someone alerted me that the Ironhead Heavy Flamer got 1 point reduced Ammo. This is the only (?) Ironhead weapon to have its profile modified other than the standard Rapid Fire (+1) (aka Firestorm for template weapons). So my dream of streamlining Ironhead that way is shattered. 😫
 

Jam Warrior

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An interesting error just surfaced on Facebook. RAW the Sky Mantle gives you hidden every turn for the rest of the game once used because the copy/paste of the Pitch Black rules into Hidden/Revealed rules says that once you have the Revealed condition you automatically become Hidden again at the end of the round. Clearly not the intent.
 
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JayTee

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Jun 14, 2015
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Not sure we can say for sure that isn't the intent, if it was a "hide for the rest of this turn" effect that would be frankly utterly shit as you're trading your entire activation for not being shot at.

Besides, the restriction that it goes away when you move or shoot means it has to be for more than the remaining turn. Given that there is no time restriction on the effect, it has to be intended that it is permanent.

Is this balanced? Unsure, not played AWN enough to judge
 
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TopsyKretts

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Good point. And to add to it, trading the entire activation to hopefully not be shot at as you're not even guaranteed due to certain ways to circumvent hidden?
 

Jam Warrior

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Not sure we can say for sure that isn't the intent, if it was a "hide for the rest of this turn" effect that would be frankly utterly shit as you're trading your entire activation for not being shot at.

Besides, the restriction that it goes away when you move or shoot means it has to be for more than the remaining turn. Given that there is no time restriction on the effect, it has to be intended that it is permanent.

Is this balanced? Unsure, not played AWN enough to judge

? It’s not a hide for the rest of the turn effect. It’s a hide until reveal effect. You can stay hidden as long as you don’t move or shoot for as long as you want. The issue is with then perpetually re-hiding for free for the rest of the game.

If AWN can sacrifice turn 1 to start every subsequent turn with their entire gang hidden that would be crazy powerful.

Plus makes no sense narratively.
 

JayTee

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Jun 14, 2015
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I'm not sure it is crazy powerful. AWN can with their Stormcallers already give their entire gang, Helamites and Stormcallers included who don't have sky cloaks, a similar effect but also adjust the range it works at plus affect shooting modifiers, though it's two-way as opposed to the one-way Hide. If a "free" hide for most of your models at the expense of doing nothing for a whole turn with them is crazy overpowered, then a free hide for everyone with the ability to fiddle with the range at which it works, and the extra effects it has on shooting, is surely even worse.

Giving up your whole first turn, minus any Stormcallers or Helamites, gives your opponent a fair bit of initiative. In some scenarios not doing anything for a whole turn can be enough to lose the match if you're not contesting objectives or putting down opponents.

A Double action is a lot; you're halving your actions to not be shot (directly) at. Without the "re-hide for free" I can't think of too many scenarios it would be useful given that (most) useful actions make it go away.

As said, I've not played enough to firmly judge if it's is a broken tactic. So far with how many ways there are to affect Hide/Visibility, and the emphasis AW scenarios puts on this, I feel it's in a good place based on the ~6 games I've played since AW was released. YMMV.
 

Jam Warrior

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You can’t see the use? It’s crap on offence but a great defensive move. You know like hiding would be in real life. You take the action when you have a nice position but no current in range visible target.

Camp objectives and fire corridors and guaranteed get first shot when someone enters them before they can shoot you. That’s impressive board control.

Plus it just makes no logical sense. You take time to hide in the environment, expose yourself by moving/shooting, and now magically get re-hidden instantly every turn no matter what actions you’ve taken?
 

JayTee

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That's the problem, there are very few occasions where "defence" is worthwhile in Necromunda. In the AW Scenarios only one of them that the AW can play, noting they don't have vehicles, puts emphasis on being static and "defending" (Looters). Around half have you needing to push forward to grab objectives, and while yes you could go static and 'cover' them particularly in the Fuel Hunt scenario where the objectives are going to be less in cover, not contesting them I feel is a mistake.

Arguably hiding has use in the Rescue Mission if you're attacking but god this scenario already crawls; I'd hate to play someone who spends half their turns doing nothing.

The rolling road scenarios you are never going to waste a turn hiding, you need to be moving forward though the AWN do have quite a steep hill to climb with these given their lack of vehicles.

Also, battlefield conditions. If it's Season of Flame there's a ~56% chance to have Visibility in effect, for Ash it's ~93% chance with ~7% chance of being Pitch Black, and for Flame it is more complex due to some of the results but there's a ~25% chance to be Pitch Black, ~47% chance to be nothing and some other numbers it's too early in the morning to work out. Adding all that up it's around 65% chance to have some sort of Visibility/Pitch Black in effect. At which point the use of the Sky Cloaks is pretty low and given the high probability of these effects gangs are going to come with photogoggles and infra-sights which counter the cloaks equally. Plus Stormcallers mean you can guarantee Visibility is in effect, so I feel if you've got a AWN gang in your campaign you need to be prepared to counter Visibility which also counters Sky Cloaks in the same way.

All in all I'm so far not concerned with the balance of the 'free hide', though this whole thing could do with errata given that there's implication that you can only hide in Ash Wastes games not SM/ZM games in the Born to the Wastes skill.
 
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Rvianarpg

Juve
Jan 4, 2020
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guys . The power fist is the book is not Unwildely. It´s a miss or it is really not Unwildely? thanks
 

Jam Warrior

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guys . The power fist is the book is not Unwildely. It´s a miss or it is really not Unwildely? thanks

Given that this is one of many stats changes for the weapon, most of us have taken the squat power fist to be an entirely different weapon to the black market imperial power fist. Smaller and less powerful.

I propose we rename it the power glove to help differentiate.

It's so bad.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
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Yeah this happens all of the time all the way back to 2017. We can't know for sure until further reprints of the profile. There were weapons that had this problem of 2 different profiles in the same book and nobody knew which was correct until multiple books later.

I can see many possible reasons for this, all indicate how messy GW choose to make the rules:
  • Update: Meant to update Power Fist, so the old one no longer exists in it's current form (get stats and probably cost changed to be identical to the squat one). This is bad because it's not explicit. Also, why change an already existing weapon? Balancing? If so, why spend the effort here, the game got much bigger balancing issues than this.
  • Custom: This weapon is supposed to be a different version so both old and new versions exist in parallel. This is bad because nothing should ever have identical names if it's not identical.
  • Forgot: GW simply forgot they had an existing profile several years and many books ago. I'm amazed they can remember anything with so much content scattered about.
In general, models seem to dictate rules for Necromunda. Which means if a new shiny squat model has a power fist, the rules for power fist must also support whatever else the model comes with, for example a 2nd melee weapon or a pistol. We have seen the same again and again when new minis are released, the rules bend accordingly.
 

Jon Reinhardt

Gang Champion
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Oct 19, 2016
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As for the ash cloak i have played maybe 10 battles whit the nomads in the hive. And have not used the hide ability once. Maybe i should try a bit more. But understood is as it last until you shoot or move. And if thats so its not worth much. Same whit the mighty leap on the bug. Was maybe used one silly that you cant use it to jump up and down then it would be very interesting. If nothing else its still a cheap and good unit whit 2a and ws +4 fro 80 c. Thats 30 c for the fighter .
 

Bodhigomo

Juve
Mar 30, 2018
46
32
33
Copenhagen, Denmark
I find it strange that the Squat leader has Wisdom of the Ancients as Secondary skills, when Squat champions have it as Primary skills. Have I missed the errata on this?
 

mateyboy3000

Gang Champion
May 29, 2017
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There is no errata because that's par for the course with special skill sets, a champion has it as primary and the leader gets it as secondary.
I'm 99% sure none of the house gangs leaders have their special skill list as primary, can at minimum list escher, goliath van saar and traditional cawdor. Can't remember what way nomads have it set up
 

Bodhigomo

Juve
Mar 30, 2018
46
32
33
Copenhagen, Denmark
There is no errata because that's par for the course with special skill sets, a champion has it as primary and the leader gets it as secondary.
I'm 99% sure none of the house gangs leaders have their special skill list as primary, can at minimum list escher, goliath van saar and traditional cawdor. Can't remember what way nomads have it set up
Hm, well okay then.
 

Xisor_of_Karak_Izor

New Member
Mar 30, 2021
7
4
8
Squat Diggers (Juves, pg 34):
Movement 5"?

That seems a bit speedy.
Sure, they're the Necromunda Young Team, no even halfway to a dozen decades auld...

But 5" does seem a bit undignified.

Even for them.
 
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Alharan

Juve
Oct 21, 2018
20
5
3
France
Hello,

In the N22 rules it says that the extra trailer for the ridgehauler costs +70, but in the Outlands book it costs +130.
Is this on purpose, a typo or did I miss an errata?