N18 Collected Errors/Typos in Book of the Outcast

[TopsyKretts]

They are fully usable as the leader! But they don't include any fighters for the rest of the gang, so aren't covered by the delegation rules. I think it was a missed opportunity for the sake of completeness to give all alliances a rating, but at least they can be calculated using the standard leader rules:

• Charlatan: 385
• Mind-locked Wyrd: 140
• Rebel Lord: 420-490 (depending on equipment)

On a different topic, looks like market stalls can be carried or at least the rules treat it as a loot casket that can be opened and with different content, but doesn't mention carrying it, perhaps it goes without saying?

A "new" weapon trait is introduced, Force (for Force Weapons). The effect is both Power and Sever. Making new traits as combinations of existing traits opens up endless possibilities for new content... not impressed!

 

[TopsyKretts]

A lot of campaign mechanics are repeated here, including the Trading Post & Black Market visits in the post-battle sequence. Still not sure how it works Interested to see if anyone else understands it.

 

[SirWalterManny]

A lot of campaign mechanics are repeated here, including the Trading Post & Black Market visits in the post-battle sequence. Still not sure how it works Interested to see if anyone else understands it.

It is incredibly poorly written and difficult to parse. I’ve played in 3 different campaign groups, each has interpreted (or re-worked entirely) differently.

I have interpreted as below:

<STEP 6 - POST BATTLE ACTIONS>

OUTLAW GANG

• Has automatic access to common, illegal and rare items in the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST.
  • All common items.
  • Rare and illegal items as determined in <step 7(b)>
• Can make a REGULAR TRADE POST ACTION
  • Taking this action has two effects:
  • If successful (cool check), will grant access to the REGULAR TRADING POST
  • If taken (successful or not) will provide a bonus to the roll for ‘Seek Rare Equipment’ in <step 7(b)>
    • If unsuccessful can still purchase common, illegal and rare items in the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST only.
    • If successful, can purchase common, illegal and rare items in the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST or the REGULAR TRADING POST.
• More than one fighter (leader of champion equivalent) may make this action, only one needs to succeed in order to gain action to the REGULAR TRADING POST.
  
  
• Can make a BLACK MARKET TRADE POST ACTION
  • No test is required.
  • Taking this action will offer a bonus to the ‘Seek Illegal Equipment’ action in <step 7(b)>.
• More than one fighter (leader of champion equivalent) may make this action, and each fighter taking this action may provide an additional bonus to the ‘Seek Illegal Equipment’ action in <step 7(b)>.

LAW ABIDING GANG

• Has automatic access to common and rare items in the REGULAR TRADING POST.
  • All common items.
  • Rare items as determined in <step 7(b)>
• Can make a BLACK MARKET TRADE POST ACTION
  • Taking this action has two effects:
  • If successful (Intelligence check), will grant access to the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST
  • If taken (successful or not) will provide a bonus to the roll for ‘Seek Illegal Equipment’ in <step 7(b)>
    • If unsuccessful can still purchase common and rare items in the REGULAR TRADING POST only.
    • If successful, can purchase common, illegal and rare items in the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST or the REGULAR TRADING POST.
• More than one fighter (leader of champion equivalent) may make this action, only one needs to succeed in order to gain action to the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST.
  
  
• Can make a REGULAR TRADE POST ACTION
  • No test is required.
  • Taking this action will offer a bonus to the ‘Seek Rare Equipment’ action in <step 7(b)>.
• More than one fighter (leader of champion equivalent) may make this action, and each fighter taking this action may provide an additional bonus to the ‘Seek Rare Equipment’ action in <step 7(b)>.

<STEP 7 (B) - UPDATE ROSTER: VISIT TRADING POST>

Each gang separately makes two rolls:

1. Seeking Rare Items
   1. This roll determines the rarity of items they can access at both the Standard Trading Post AND the Black Market Trading Post.
   2. It is a single roll which determines the maximum rarity of items available at either location which the gang could purchase.
      1. Note however, that a gang will only have access to both trading posts if a successful relevant test was made in <step 6>.
   3. The roll is modified dependent upon the action taken in <step > and the gangs alignment:
      1. +2 if gang’s leader made a successful (or automatically successful) REGULAR TRADE POST ACTION
      2. +1 if gang champion made a successful (or automatically successful) REGULAR TRADE POST ACTION
      3. +1 for every full 10 Gang Reputation of the gang
      4. +/-X for any special rules (skills, Wargear etc.)
   4. This is the ‘Availability Score’. This score is the highest rarity value of items available to each trading post… but:
      1. For an OUTLAW gang, subtract 2 from the score when comparing to items in the REGULAR TRADING POST (note, this additional modifier is not applied to the ‘availability score’ for rare items in the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST).
      2. For a LAW-ABIDING gang, subtract 1 from the score when comparing to items in the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST (note, this additional modifier is not applied to the ‘availability score’ for rare items in the REGULAR TRADING POST).

1. Seeking Illegal Items
   1. This is a single roll determines the maximum ‘illegal’ rating of items they can access at BLACK MARKET TRADING POST.
      1. Note however, that a LAW-ABIDING GANG will only have access to the BLACK MARKET TRADING POST if a successful BLACK MARKET TRADE POST test was made in <step 6>; if not, they do not need to make this roll as have no access to illegal items.
   2. The roll is modified dependent upon the action taken in <step > and the gangs alignment:
      1. +2 if gang’s leader made a successful (or automatically successful) BLACK MARKET TRADE POST ACTION
      2. +1 if gang champion made a successful (or automatically successful) BLACK MARKET TRADE POST ACTION
      3. +1 for every full 10 Gang Reputation of the gang
      4. +/-X for any special rules (skills, Wargear etc.)
      5. -2 if the gang is a LAW-ABIDING gang
   3. This is the ‘Availability Score’. This score is the highest ‘illegal’ value of items available.

NOTE: Once the rarity/illegal seatings have been determined, any number of items with a rarity/illegal rating below those scores can be purchased during <step 7(b)>.

I think that works, RAI and RAW. But it is awful (It can mean a gang with 1 leader and 2 champions makes 3 tests in <step 6>, and then 2 further rolls in <step 7(b)> to end up with 3 different scores for items depending on which trading post they are in, and if rare or illegal.

 

[Jayward]

Just spotted one in a video review; the cost of a WS/BS advancement is listed as +5 credits, and the cost of a Willpower/Intelligence is listed as +20 credits

 

[TopsyKretts]

On page 71, it has WS/BS +20, Will/Int +5. This was incorract (as you describe) in N17, then correct in N18, then incorrect again in N19, and now looks like it's correct again in N21.

 

[Jayward]

In the ganger advancements on pg71. I don't have the book but you can see it in both the GMG and Sprues and Brews videos

 

[TopsyKretts]

Thanks!

 

[TopsyKretts]

Trading Post is mostly the same, missing many items from N19.

Here are my findings of new items (previously unavailable from the Tradig Post):

• Grav pistol: Rare (11), 70 - What happens to Delaque paying 90?
• Sawn-off shotgun (solid): Common, 5 - What happens to Cawdor and Orlock paying 10?
• Grenade launcher: Krak (combi) Rare (8), 25
• Grenade launcher: Stun (combi) Rare (8), 20
• Melta-bolter (combi): Rare (12), 170
• Cleaver: Common, 20 - What happens to CGC paying 25?
• Greatsword: Rare (10), 40
• Heavy club: Common, 15
• Polearm: Rare (9), 30
• Power claw: Rare (11), 55
• Whip: Common, 15

Some items have weird/old formatting:

• Servo harness partial/full: Rare (11) for Goliath & Orlock, Rare (10) for Van Saar (copied from N18)
• Heavy rock cutter: Rare (8) for Goliath and Orlock (copied from N18)

 

[Jayward]

The Whip is a weapon in House of Blades on the Wyld Runner list, with the only difference being Strength S on this one compared to 2 on the Wyld Runner one. Given that all other aspects are the same I suspect that's a stealth upgrade, as people called out the HoB version for being incredibly bad

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yup, that sounds exactly like a stealth upgrade. Since it's not declared, it will be categorized here as an external conflict with the suggested stealth update in comments.

 

[DamianK]

Trading Post is mostly the same, missing many items from N19.

Here are my findings:

• Grav pistol: Rare (11), 70 - What happens to Delaque paying 90?
• Sawn-off shotgun (solid): Common, 5 - What happens to Cawdor and Orlock paying 10?
• Grenade launcher: Krak (combi) Rare (8), 25
• Grenade launcher: Stun (combi) Rare (8), 20
• Melta-bolter (combi): Rare (12), 170
• Cleaver: Common, 20 - What happens to CGC paying 25?
• Greatsword: Rare (19), 40
• Heavy club: Common, 15
• Heavy rock cutter: Rare (8) for Goliath and Orlock (copied from N18)
• Polearm: Rare (9), 30
• Power claw: Rare (11), 55
• Whip: Common, 15
• Servo harness partial/full: Rare (11) for Goliath & Orlock, Rare (10) for Van Saar (copied from N18)

It`s really annoying how they simultaneously are aware of the problems and are trying to fix them while also doing it in the most confusing way possible - by amibiguous stealth erratas. Sawn-off shotgun going down to 5 creds would actually make it somewhat worthwhile. But nobody knows if it`s intentional or just a typo. Shame.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Note that it's the solid ammo, not the weapon itself. Also makes it weird for some gangs to pay a higher price for it.

 

[Thorgor]

Note that it's the solid ammo, not the weapon itself. Also makes it weird for some gangs to pay a higher price for it.

Only at gang creation, or for fighters who cannot equip weapons from the TP.
But obviously the reduced price should also apply to any pre-existing HWL.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Only at gang creation, or for fighters who cannot equip weapons from the TP.
But obviously the reduced price should also apply to any pre-existing HWL.

I agree for common trade post items.

If an item is cheaper in the trading post as a rare item then I vote any increased cost on the HWL as the cost of easy access.

 

[Thorgor]

If an item is cheaper in the trading post as a rare item then I vote any increased cost on the HWL as the cost of easy access.

Yes, good point!

 

[Sundown Dreamer]

Such differences also unsettle me. Every time new and every time it takes away a piece of the anticipation. However, I have made up my mind not to be angry about such things anymore. I just wish that they at least would use one of their many sites and opportunities to communicate.


P.S.: I am assuming that someone does their job normally as well as possible and GW also has an Office suite. When things or differences like this come up, I sometimes think that not only is there a lack of proofreading or information, but the company may also lack someone who can use and program the powerful functions properly. For example, for file, template, master and version management. Or there is a general lack of software trainings.

 

[Guydob]

Maybe it shouldn't count but I am mildly annoyed that Hagar Freelord (p.87) is armed with a mysterious weapon called "two plasma pistols", as opposed to Cor Coran's "Autopistol (x2)" (Book of Judgement p.91)

 

[TopsyKretts]

I hear what you're saying but I'll refrain from listing it for the time being

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

They are fully usable as the leader! But they don't include any fighters for the rest of the gang, so aren't covered by the delegation rules. I think it was a missed opportunity for the sake of completeness to give all alliances a rating, but at least they can be calculated using the standard leader rules:

• Charlatan: 385
• Mind-locked Wyrd: 140
• Rebel Lord: 420-490 (depending on equipment)

On a different topic, looks like market stalls can be carried or at least the rules treat it as a loot casket that can be opened and with different content, but doesn't mention carrying it, perhaps it goes without saying?

A "new" weapon trait is introduced, Force (for Force Weapons). The effect is both Power and Sever. Making new traits as combinations of existing traits opens up endless possibilities for new content... not impressed!

How are you coming up with those costs? Are you taking 122 for a leader and adding the equipment (don't have my other books at the moment to check)? If they don't have a base cost they can't actually be upgraded to a leader according to my reading of the book.

So far I have found there a few things that aren't addressed:

1. If you use an Outcast Delegation as the core of your gang. can you rehire the unique fighter types when they die?
2. If you use an Outcast Delegation as the core of your gang. can you hire a second special champion, or more special gangers?
3. The rules for upgrading a model are incomplete IMHO. It says you can either have them keep their equipment or replace it with those available to an Outcast Leader. OK, so I hire an Ammo Jack and get a power hammer, boltgun, mesh armor, great ammo roll ability, and solid profile for just 50 credits. I can choose to replace all that gear with... nothing... and they still cost the same? The whole sentence about replacing their skills and equipment with those available to an Underhive Outcast Leader just brings up so many questions.
   • Are we to assume the equipment for hangers-on in NOT included in the cost now?
   • What about dramatis personae, we know they generally have their equipment costs included, but don't pay full price for skills and characteristics.
   • What happens if my upgraded leader loses wargear or equipment through campaign play... is their cost reduced? This is the same problems with built in armor in 2017.
   • Lets say I use Kal Jerico as my leader. He has 2 master crafted Laspistols and a sword (if i recall). I pay his hire cost and get all that stuff. I then decide to give him a plasma pistol and make a new equipment set consisting of that gun, one of his laspistols, and the sword. What the hell is the cost of that equipment set card for crew rating purposes?

 

[TopsyKretts]

I didn't come up with those, but borrowed them from a comment on discord by someone who seemed trustworthy, and I didn't question it much. The Rebel lord was too complex that I bothered to do the math, for the mind-locked wyrd I think it's as easy as you suggest, take the Outcast leader cost, get free wyrd power access and add cost for mesh armour (it's a rather naked character). This won't be exactly correct, but accurate enough?

My impressions for your other questions are (not 100% sure, please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. No. But you have access to the same equipment as those fighters as common (if they are available from the trading post), so you could re-buy most of it and give to standard Outcast Champ/Ganger.
2. The special characters are typically overcosted, so cost should not be an issue.
3. Yes, that's incomplete. And it's way too much details to solve completely in one single book. I think you gonna have to either accept that you lose the equipment, stash it and replace it with what you really want (be a proper outlaw and break the rules!) or simply set a strict limitation to take the character as is (don't remove or replace anything). In general, I think it's more about using anything you want rather than having the correct costs for everything. Err on the side of caution! And yes, you are correct the same problem with built-in armour (and other equipment) is the same problem here. The dilemma is, do you want this imperfect option to use anything you want, or a perfect system without this option.

I'm gonna list up some of these points as errors, because they are, but for once I think there are more important things in the game to handle.