You're referencing rules from Dominion. Articles of Faith or any other House gang special rule didn't exist then. N18 Dominion campaign is obviously not intended to include N21 House gang special rules. Instead, it's intended to cover what was already available, the resource bonuses divided into the 6 house gangs.
N18 Collected Errors/Typos in Book of the Outcast
- Thread starter TopsyKretts
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I'm referencing the post by Petitioner's City. He used the rules from Domination to show that "founding a gang" is part of "campaign purposes". If the example that he used is not intended to include the house gang special rules then it does not support the stance of including the house gang special rules.
The rules under "clan house" for outcasts also does specify that the gang can "purchase weapons and wargear normally restricted to their house lists" in the second paragraph. If the "campaign purposes" in the first paragraph meant that it included gang creation (weapon/wargear, house special abilities, etc) then why would they need a second paragraph concerning the house lists?
The other question is, where would you draw the line on who they can recruit. Can an outcast Escher gang recruit death maidens or wyld runners like a normal Escher gang can?
The rules under "clan house" for outcasts also does specify that the gang can "purchase weapons and wargear normally restricted to their house lists" in the second paragraph. If the "campaign purposes" in the first paragraph meant that it included gang creation (weapon/wargear, house special abilities, etc) then why would they need a second paragraph concerning the house lists?
The other question is, where would you draw the line on who they can recruit. Can an outcast Escher gang recruit death maidens or wyld runners like a normal Escher gang can?
I just got Book of the Outcast, excited about the Outlander campaign. But the descriptions of the Settlement Locations seems contradictory.
"Factorum Run-Off" says "rich in resources but also often highly toxic" but has a Toxicity of just 3.
Then "Boneyard" says "not as rich in resources as run-off, they are less toxic and therefore safer to work". But has Toxicity of 4!
Then Ghost Town has a whopping Toxicity of 5, the highest of any location, despite the description mentioning nothing about toxicity.
The Depths have a toxicity of 3. The Edge of the Hive has the lowest toxicity, 2.
It makes no sense that Ghost Towns and Boneyards are more toxic than Factorum Run-Off, which is only as toxic as The Depths. It seems like the toxicity values are all completely scrambled.
Has anyone else noticed these issues? Has anyone already done an altered list? I was sure there would be an Errata for it (either official or unofficial) but I don't see any discussions regarding it.
"Factorum Run-Off" says "rich in resources but also often highly toxic" but has a Toxicity of just 3.
Then "Boneyard" says "not as rich in resources as run-off, they are less toxic and therefore safer to work". But has Toxicity of 4!
Then Ghost Town has a whopping Toxicity of 5, the highest of any location, despite the description mentioning nothing about toxicity.
The Depths have a toxicity of 3. The Edge of the Hive has the lowest toxicity, 2.
It makes no sense that Ghost Towns and Boneyards are more toxic than Factorum Run-Off, which is only as toxic as The Depths. It seems like the toxicity values are all completely scrambled.
Has anyone else noticed these issues? Has anyone already done an altered list? I was sure there would be an Errata for it (either official or unofficial) but I don't see any discussions regarding it.
They aren't scrambled. Because of the way the values work the lower a locations toxicity the more toxic it is.
The number is the cap on how many of that type of structure you can have. A toxicity of 4 let's you have 4 buildings while a toxicity of 2 only allows 2.
The number is the cap on how many of that type of structure you can have. A toxicity of 4 let's you have 4 buildings while a toxicity of 2 only allows 2.
Ooooh! Silly me. That's what I get for not reading the whole campaign section before posting!
Certainly counter-intuitive though. For the other stats of Defence and Resources, higher is better. So you wouldn't expect something with a Toxicity of 5 to be the least toxic. But maths-wise it does make sense.
Thank you!
Sorry for not responding for a few days - this line of thought just really tired me out, and tbh I couldn't be bothered getting into a more lawyerly discussion. It's not me, really.
I think the best way to explain my perspective is that - always - I am fluff and world-building ideas-driven. That's how I respond to the game, how I feel it should work, and is entirely where I enjoy and do not enjoy aspects of it - and naturally this mediates how I both respond to the core rules and how I (as seen upthread) have rewritten them.
For me, how can a Goliath fighter be a Goliath - now, in modern fluff - unless they are "Unborn", "Natborn", "Vatborn". To remove that from a Goliath Clan Underhiver Gang does remove the fluff from the gang. This is the same with the other special rules - at what point does a member of the house diaspora stop being part of that diaspora, as the rules present them. Maybe all clan underhiver goliaths are Vatborn - and un-smithed - but it seems much more intriguing, and more narrative, to let players craft stories out of the upgrades for their fighters. Equally the same with archaeo-cyberteknika, chem-alchemy and so on - although you can add in restrictions, randomness, etc., to make them a bit more "poverty-chic" too (perhaps Goliath fighters randomly generate their gene-smithing, almost confrontation-/Rogue Trader-style, and the gang's starting gang rating is then adjusted accordingly before the first fight)
So ultimately I cannot answer your questions; I think it's up to you how far you push the envelope/break it/be conservative. Book of the Outcast is a great toolbox - but even the thing you quote - there isn't a "house list" for any house gang "anymore" - unless you agree to go back to GotU, Hive War or even Gang War (and this is a choice that the book leaves up to you). Instead, there are separate lists and if you use them - you can decide possibly your outcast leader can take equipment from their House Leader list, the champs from the champ lists (although which?) and the Hive Scum from the ganger lists (and which again for Cawdor?) - but it's your own unknown territory that you have to work out, since there likely never will be (an adequate) FAQ.
But that ambiguity, as much as it is very problematic, is grand because it can go in so many weird, or "wyrd", directions. That's for me partly what this game is about - not finding abusive combos, but having a narrative reason why X or Y occurs, and trying to "play the story"/pick and choose from 30 years of work, back to Confrontation, even.
I even worked more on this, on "playing narrative". In our ruleset, all items which are normally rare become rare after a gang is founded - you can't pick and choose in the way standard Necro runs, and we have a rare trade table (or rather, many tables). This "baked-in" narrative tool, inspired by oldmunda, mordheim and the like, kinda helps to further the narrative for players and ensure we don't end up with paramilitary mobs identikit-armed.
Something I would also emphasise is that Necromunda isn't a RAW or often even RAI game - it's a "Rules as Story", "Rules as Starting Point" and "Rules as Fluid" system. We are told this again and again in the books, since Gang War 1, and also on online tools like the Arbitrator's Gudie.
Wrangling over language in Dominion - years older than the new gang ideas - results in no conclusive way to decide this. It's up to you, your friends and colleagues - to really follow that final invective - "is it more fun?" "Yes, it probably is." "Great, try it! If it doesn't work, you can always try it differently next time".
Hence my very positive response to the idea of Cults using rules like you suggested - it could be a great fun thing! Similarly in terms of death maidens and wyld runners - I added a rule to our house rulebook that a Clan Underhiver gang can Elevate one Champion and up to two Prospects from the house list (although I'd mention that DMs are, alongside anything with a starting WS of 2+, are nerfed (and cost adjusted) in our rules too). It has led again to narrative potential, but of course it can be abused too. But I know my group are not really gonna do that.
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So don't take my own wrangling with the rules as gospel - as I said, they are mediated by my own preferences. Instead, just take an idea and run with it - or don't, perhaps. Just have fun!
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Can’t see a thread for collected errors in Ash Wastes Rulebook - realise may be intentional as new Rulebook brings in a hold new tranche of rules for vehicles which update or adapt existing rules.
But spotted one error so far:
p109, Maintain Control (simple) - theyve used the original text from Rulebook (power ends at end of fighters activation if they don’t successfully make this action), and forgotten the errata which ‘Corrected’ this to ’ends at the start of this fighter’s activation’
Still don’t understand how making ‘maintain control’ an action (rather than a free action) makes any sense, given that it makes several psychic powers which require maintaining fully or partially redundant (foreboding, flame blast, quickening, arachnoasis), but hey.
But spotted one error so far:
p109, Maintain Control (simple) - theyve used the original text from Rulebook (power ends at end of fighters activation if they don’t successfully make this action), and forgotten the errata which ‘Corrected’ this to ’ends at the start of this fighter’s activation’
Still don’t understand how making ‘maintain control’ an action (rather than a free action) makes any sense, given that it makes several psychic powers which require maintaining fully or partially redundant (foreboding, flame blast, quickening, arachnoasis), but hey.
I was hoping someone else would step up, because I'm getting really tired, however since I'm unable to let go, here it is:
yaktribe.games
Since this book doesn't seem to be sold separately, it won't be digital (like N17 Rulebook, N19 Rulebook & N21 Rulebook). So it will be a problem to get a proper overview and read all details in it.
N18 - Collected Errors/Typos in N22 Rulebook (Ash Wastes)
The 5th rulebook, this time introducing vehicle & mount mechanics. Previous discussions: Book of Outcast Errors General Discussion House of Shadow (Delaque) Errors General Discussion House of Faith (Cawdor) Errors General Discussion Hive War (N21 Rulebook) Errors House of Artifice...
yaktribe.games
Since this book doesn't seem to be sold separately, it won't be digital (like N17 Rulebook, N19 Rulebook & N21 Rulebook). So it will be a problem to get a proper overview and read all details in it.
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