N18 Collected Errors/Typos in Desolation (N24)

T

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
7,923
8,577
193
Norway
The 28th book, giving more complete rules to the new gangs introduced in the previous book (Spyrers and Malstrain from Hive Secundus).


A summary of various findings (contributed by several yaktribe champions).

INTERNAL CONFLICTS
  • Roaming Horrors arrive at the start of rounds (p82-83). Underhells Encounter (p96): "If a weapon with the Blast (3"/5"/*) trait was fired during the round, add 1 to the roll to generate Roaming Horrors."
    • Comment: Surely meant to be Blasts fired in the previous round?
EXTERNAL CONFLICTS (CONFLICT WITH PREVIOUS PUBLICATIONS)
  • Flamer/Man-catcher combi (p129): The flamer part got S -1,AP blank and no Combi. Mancatcher part got S-1 AP blank.
    • Comment: Flamer should have S4 AP-1 and Combi trait. Mancatcher should have Str S and AP-1. Also "Man-catcher" is previously spelled "Mancatcher".
  • Outlaw gangs (p56): Cannot purchase gang-specific Exotic Beasts or Brutes.
    • Comment: Why make the distinction for Brutes and not Hangers-on? The reason is probably because this wording is copy-pasted from Ruin (N19), and gang-specific Hangers-on didn't exist then. But they do now. So this wording is at best misleading, as it should specify Hangers-on and not just Brutes. Same restriction also applies to Hired Guns which is also left out.
ERRORS
  • Toxin whip / paired toxin whips (p129): Long range 2" but no Versatile.
    • Comment: Obviously has Versatile (the trait itself is redundant, but is supposed to be included).
  • Malstrain gangs are not flagged as automatically Outlaw.
    • Comment: Should obviously always be Outlaw, compared to Malstrain Corrupted gangs and available hangers-on.
  • Underhells Encounter scenario (p96): If a weapon with the Blast (3"/5"/*) trait was fired during the round, add 1 to the roll to generate Roaming Horrors.
    • Comment: Should be previous round? Otherwise it will be almost impossible to fire any blasts before generating roaming horrors.
NOTES
  • Malstrain Coalescence Genestealer: Finally aPsyker as core gang fighter that starts with skills and 1 wyrd power. Can get additional wyrds powers as Primary skills. This is the correct way and indicates a couple of things: The XP costs for Wyrd Powers as Primary skills in Outcast is wrong (should be 6/9XP instead of 9/12XP). And Champion psykers should start with skill(s) and wyrd power. Note that Outcast still unlocks all universal wyrd powers, but this is only through advancements, not as a starting wyrd power which is limited to Malstrain powers only.
  • Malstrain can't normally have Group Activation, Post-battle action, however a possible loophole promoting a Ganger (Specialist to Champion or Ganger to Leader (using Death of a Leader) could bypass this.
  • Trazior Sentry Gun (Gang Equipment) has a fighter profile, but nowhere is it declared as a fighter. Does it cause Cool checks to friendly fighters if taken OoA? Does it grant XP for taking it OoA? Arguably it doesn't trigger Cool checks, but should grant XP? It seems to be affected by Toxin as normal, but how does it interact with Graviton Pulse when it doesn't have Strength stat?

CHANGES AND IMPROVEMENTS
  • Spyrer (p28): More details for the special rules. An example of Hive Secundus being a simplified version as a result of being a "box book".
    • Reflex Enhancers (p28): Better explanation for Spyrer's 2 activations per round, any effects that removes activations only removes a single activation.
    • Master of the Hunt: Cannot be Captured.
    • Ignore all effects and addictions from chems.
    • Kill Count: Added explanation that this is in addition to XP.
    • Caryatid Prime: Got 2x activations like spyrers (reflex enhancers).
 
Last edited:
Not sure whether to call these commentary or Notes.

Page 56: rules for Malstrain corrupted gangs differ significantly to those of Genestealer Cult and Chaos Cult corruption in the Book of Ruin (pages 8-11; 12-13 respectively) - prior gang corruption options are more similar to each other than this new option:
  • Gang leader psyker upgrade is 35 credits (5 less than GSC)
  • No 0-1 gang member aberrant hiring option, replaced by unlimited 30 credit brood scum available as gang members (gang fighter hierarchy rule)
  • Only the psyker-upgraded leader in GSC could access 0-3 25 credit psychic familiars, this has been replaced by any Malstrain leader and Champions being able to access 0-2 Tyramites each (70 credits per 'mite)
  • Malstrain Genestealers and Coalescence accessible as Brutes, but strict limits specified
  • No access to Cult icon (Corpse Grindlers and Cawdor still have access to those in their lists)
  • No access to 3 armed juves
  • Access to House lists outside of Brutes and Exotic Beasts maintained so implicitly House Gangs can still access some of their special sauce (eg: Escher chems, Goliath Genesmithing, etc), but no mention made of the exceptional specified Articles of Faith lockout that Chaos and GSC corrupted Cawdor gangs suffer (House of Faith Page 97, paragraph 3). Probably rule-as-intended Malstrain corruption would lock out Cawdor Faith access, but Corpse Grinder Cult are pulling on a variant of the same source so there's an argument to be had either way for unique and special snowflake gang crafting...
  • No notes as to whether Malstrain corrupted gangs can become Chaos corrupted or Crusading gangs (latter option from Vaults of Temnos Page 51 specifies Chaos and Genestealer corrupted gangs are not eligible, so unlikely).

Page 112: Custom Rig costs 215 credits, 15 less than the Cargo 8 Ridgehauler. Custom Rig has 1 less Toughness in front and rear locations, one less HP and Save, no Transport Bed, but a choice of wheeled or tracked (the latter for -1 move) and an extra weapon hardpoint (2 total, arc and operators unspecified). Probably of interest to balance fans.

Page 128: Orrus powerless talons continues, but on a different weapon traits table. Probably needs to be renamed to plain Orrus Talons?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TopsyKretts
NOTE
Crew selection for standard scenarios may be unbalanced by the involvement of Spyrer gangs as their Gang Composition rules (page 24) means they are not required to fill 50% of their numbers with models with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule. All of their fighters are roughly equivalent to Champion strength so they will benefit from random selection more than other gangs, which will likely be felt in early campaigns.

A possible means of balancing this could be to select fighters for crews based on their activations rather than their models (eg: a Spyrer counts for two, a ganger from Escher would count for one).

Thoughts?

[@TopsyKretts : please feel free to kick this comment into another thread if you don't think it belongs here].
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drake48653
libratorr said:
POSSIBLE ERROR
Page 129. As pointed out in this thread, toxin whips don't have versatile, despite having a range of E and 2" (without sidearm rule).
Click to expand...
I think that's the best way of writing it, as the Versatile trait is redundant (together with Template and Melee). But it is an error according to how GW writes the rules.
 
I don't think there are any other dedicated discussion about this book, so feel welcome to discuss anything related to it here 😎
 
TopsyKretts said:
    • Reflex Enhancers (p28): Better explanation for Spyrer's 2 activations per round, any effects that removes activations only removes a single activation
Click to expand...
I suppose previous rules interact with Ready markers. You know those little tokens we never bother using .
It does separate effects that key around the word activation rather than than ready marker.
TopsyKretts said:
    • Master of the Hunt: Cannot be Captured.
Click to expand...
By adding the phrase "for any reason" it prevents you trading your Spyrer for another fighter as well (why on earth would you?). It also rules out potential loopholes around interactions with older rulesets, Delaque and other sneakiness
TopsyKretts said:
    • Kill Count: Added explanation that this is in addition to XP.
Click to expand...
It does say it's in addition to gaining XP.
It's the start of the second sentence of that section.
 
Lunarcruiser said:
Isn't that a given assumption automatically?
Like it raining when you left your coat at home?
Click to expand...
We can discuss a lot of things, but to say Versatile weapons shouldn't have Versatile trait in official rules is not something you'll find support for in the existing litterature 😛
 
Lunarcruiser said:
I suppose previous rules interact with Ready markers. You know those little tokens we never bother using .
It does separate effects that key around the word activation rather than than ready marker.
Click to expand...
Yes I called it activation but you are correct the rules use the term Ready marker. It just irks me to have rules talk about markers for some reason. Not sure the distinction is meaningful?
 
TopsyKretts said:
We can discuss a lot of things, but to say Versatile weapons shouldn't have Versatile trait in official rules is not something you'll find support for in the existing litterature 😛
Click to expand...
Oh I know. I was just mocking GW writing and editing. Have a nice day.
 
Lunarcruiser said:
By adding the phrase "for any reason" it prevents you trading your Spyrer for another fighter as well (why on earth would you?). It also rules out potential loopholes around interactions with older rulesets, Delaque and other sneakiness
Click to expand...
Yeah the change makes sense. I think it would make even more sense to have it in the previous publication also.
 
Malstrain gangs are not flagged as automatically Outlaw. It's obvious that both narratively and mechanically they must be: their two House Agents are both Outlaws so the gang must be Outlaws otherwise they can't hire them. Malstrain Corrupted gangs are flagged as automatically Outlaws so it's a weird omission.

Main thing this affects is the gang's access to Hanger-Ons: so no Rogue Docs or Bullet Merchants, but yes to Hereteks and Cadaver merchants.
 
  • Like
Reactions: libratorr and TopsyKretts
JayTee said:
Malstrain gangs are not flagged as automatically Outlaw. It's obvious that both narratively and mechanically they must be: their two House Agents are both Outlaws so the gang must be Outlaws otherwise they can't hire them. Malstrain Corrupted gangs are flagged as automatically Outlaws so it's a weird omission.

Main thing this affects is the gang's access to Hanger-Ons: so no Rogue Docs or Bullet Merchants, but yes to Hereteks and Cadaver merchants.
Click to expand...
Genestealer Cults (original flavour, three armed champs and alphas, aberrants and weirdo psychic familiars and all) are listed as being optionally law abiding or outlaw at creation in the Book of Judgement's Law and Misrule campaign, and are law abiding in the Dark Uprising campaign.

Genestealer corrupted gangs on the other hand are automatically Outlaw based on their Book of Ruin rules, despite likely not having any three armed fighters from the outset (and never more than one aberrant or three psychic familiars total).

Genestealer alignment has never made a lick of sense in the rules, it is not unexpected that the Malstrain break with this pattern.

That said, given pure Malstrain gangs can't send their genestealer Champions shopping it makes sense for them to be able to "maintain cover" as law-abiding.
 
Interestingly Caryatid Prime (pet) got same double activations as spyrers now. Didn't have that in the previous book? And is it really needed? Pets must activate with owner anyways, so almost doesn't even need ready markers.
Group Activation (Exotic Beasts): When a fighter with this special rule is activated, their controlling player must activate all Exotic Beasts belonging to this
fighter as well, as part of a ‘Group Activation’
Click to expand...
 
I believe the previous caryatid was not called prime, did not have duouble activations, did not cost credits, but required a trading post roll of 15+, then a 2D6+Rep, if this second roll totals 20+ the caryatid joins the leader of a gang as a pet. (Pg 304 of the 2023 core rules). Obviously spyrers are more likely to have exotic pets which is why they can buy them, and if spyrers chop themselves up to fit in a suit, I don’t see why they wouldn’t experiment on a pet too…
 
TopsyKretts said:
I'm speaking specifically about Caryatid Prime in this book (Desolation), compared to Caryatid Prime in the previous book (Hive Secundus). You are right there is an older one. Made some comparisons with the old and new here: https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-rules-incoming.12709/post-321810
Click to expand...
After reading that my hope for a revision of the various exotic beast profile ability rules has really intensified.

Probably needs to go in its own thread, but for those keeping score at the moment we have in the Exotic Beast-as-meat-shield design space the following interesting choices*:
  • 100 creditsCyber-mastiff (House of Iron p 47): can't coup de grace the owner if CM is within 3" and Active or Engaged
    • [Crazy overpriced with crap stats - 55 credits would be reasonable given the below?]
  • 90 credits Caryatid Prime (Book of Desolation p 39): reroll one failed armour save and one failed ammo test per round
  • 75 Credits Van Saar Cyberarachnid (House of Artifice p 49): grants perpetual Fearsome to owner if active within 3" of owner.
    • This is fine - reasonably costed as the included web projector is strength 2 and scarce.
    • Horrific rule prevents it from being captured, which means it notionally tags alongside rescuers in the Rescue Scenario if its owner is captured? Or do they sit in a loot box carried by the rescuers? Maybe Rescue Scenario requires a loot box dragged by the rescuers for the captive's gear delivery?
  • 55 Credits Cawdor Cherub-Servitor (House of Faith p 50): allows perpetual transfers of ranged hits from owner to Cherub-servitors if Cherub is within 2" of owner.
    • Rule is silent as to whether the Cherub-Servitor gets to make its Nimble save against a transferred hit (but RAI probably not as it's meant to be hit).
  • 25 Credits Chaos/Psychic Familiars (Book of Ruin pages 33 and 47, rules identical except for Clamber on PF rather than Psychic Manifestation...because the Chaos Familiar is more psychic than the Psychic Familiar!): allows avoidance of one successful hit per turn on a Willpower Save per turn.
The 90 credit Caryatid Prime has similar stats to the 25 credit Familiars aside from flight (clamber on the Familiars semi-compensates for this), 1 extra movement, better will, inferior cool - but the inclusion of reflex enhancers makes up the difference in value. That said, people worried about power creep from Spyrers should probably look elsewhere for specific examples.

But the Familiars' Omen of Fortune per turn save RAW is looking more ridiculous with every subsequent release.

*I haven't forgotten the Sumpcroc, just angry it doesn't have a lengthened range of activation to reflect it's big-boy base!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Matthias404
N18 Threat Response and Exotic Beasts?
Replies
2
Views
108
Rules & Mechanics
Matthias404
Matthias404
T
N18 Collected Errors/Typos in Hive Secundus (N24)
Replies
46
Views
4K
Rules & Mechanics
Curess
Curess
P
N18 Roaming Horror+Take Down (delaque skill)
Replies
35
Views
1K
Rules & Mechanics
paxmiles
P
T
N18 Collected Errors/Typos in N25 Halls of the Ancients (Squats)
Replies
27
Views
2K
Rules & Mechanics
TopsyKretts
T
T
N18 Collected Errors/Typos in N25 Tribes of the Wasteland (Ash Waste Nomads)
Replies
6
Views
470
Rules & Mechanics
Lunarcruiser
L
Top Bottom