N18 Collected Errors/Typos in N23 Rulebook

[PalatineKatinka]

Something that came up in a recent game is that the Watchtower (rules in Book of the Outcast and Gang Stronghold instruction manual) say that any sentries on the tower count as rolling a 12 when it comes to spotting enemies. The new spotting rules for Sneak Attacks no longer require rolling for spotting distance and the only roll made is a D6 roll with modifiers for cover to see if you successfully spot a target in line of sight and/or within 3". Obviously rolling a 12 blows all the modifiers out of the water!

 

[Ben_S]

Know's Arc

So, geometrically, which is what we're discussing, the arc is the edge (length) of the circle described, not the area.

So in this case, the arc is implied with the most obvious one (per the little cardboard markers), being surely the arc described on the edge of the base (as proxy for the 0-length[¿] arc at the centre of the model's base? God knows...).

If they have defined the arc as part of the edge of the base then yes, that would indeed make sense. That's why I had to ask for that definition. It's not how they've defined it (even if what they've defined isn't actually an arc).

 

[Ben_S]

This is from the messaging distance section (official GW Rules ebook):

I don't see the relevance of this, since there's no distance measuring going on here.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Eh? I was composing that but never posted it! How did that happen??

Yeah, I realised that before I was finished that you’re talking TLoS so deleted it in the entry box.

Just ignore it.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

I have a few quick questions for those with the new rules.

Do gangers get a free skill when they become Specialists now?

Have they updated the Death of a Leader section to match the House Of books?

Previously it was highest LD in the following priority: Champions, Specialists and Juves, finally Gangers.

Since 2020 it has been: Gang Hierarchy, Tools of the Trade, any other.

The effect of this is that Prospects have taken the rank Juves used to hold, who have been demoted to ganger rank.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Ganger Specialist: "The fighter becomes a Specialist and gains a random skill from one of their Primary Skill Sets."

Hmm, they didn't get a skill before?

Loss of a Leader is same as N20+, primarily Gang Hierarchy (X), secondly Tools of the Trade, and last anyone else.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Something that came up in a recent game is that the Watchtower (rules in Book of the Outcast and Gang Stronghold instruction manual) say that any sentries on the tower count as rolling a 12 when it comes to spotting enemies. The new spotting rules for Sneak Attacks no longer require rolling for spotting distance and the only roll made is a D6 roll with modifiers for cover to see if you successfully spot a target in line of sight and/or within 3". Obviously rolling a 12 blows all the modifiers out of the water!

Would make sense that something breaks when changing universal rules. Surprised it was only this niche terrain piece. It also had problem previously if spotting enemies on the ground, as measuring 12" from the top and downwards doesn't give as impressive range as the rule might imply.

 

[PalatineKatinka]

Yeah, gangers that randomly roll promotion to Specialist get a random Primary and increase their value accordingly. Doesn't apply to the one Specialist available at gang creation or to Juves promoted during downtime.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Ganger Specialist: "The fighter becomes a Specialist and gains a random skill from one of their Primary Skill Sets."

Hmm, they didn't get a skill before?

Loss of a Leader is same as N20+, primarily Gang Hierarchy (X), secondly Tools of the Trade, and last anyone else.

Yeah, gangers that randomly roll promotion to Specialist get a random Primary and increase their value accordingly. Doesn't apply to the one Specialist available at gang creation or to Juves promoted during downtime.

And so the rating increase would be 20 credits as if they were purchasing it as a champion or specialist?

 

[TopsyKretts]

The rating increase seems to be 20 credits for the result of 2 & 12, and includes the promotion and skill. So it's not directly "increase value accordingly" to Champion's skill cost, but indirectly since the cost is effectively the same.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Loss of a Leader is same as N20+, primarily Gang Hierarchy (X), secondly Tools of the Trade, and last anyone else.

This update was first introduced in a rulebook last year I think with the N22 Ash Wastes rulebook.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Thanks I am finalizing my next campaign rule set and I just wanted to adhere to what changes I could without having the new book. One change I've made is that all skills add only 20 to a fighter's credit rating rather than some being much more.

 

[almic85]

Just to be clear on the updated advancement tables for gangers and leader. The only thing that has changed really is that gangers becoming specialist gain a random skill for a 20 credit increase.

Gangers cost increase is 20 credits for becoming a specialist, but the cost increase to upgrade a specialist to a champion is 40 credits.

The cost increase for primary skills is 20 credits regardless if they are chosen or random.

The cost increase for secondary skills is 35 credits whether they are chosen or random.

Champions can also now select a secondary skill for 12 xp as well, which finally makes secondary skill access somewhat useful.

Also BS and WS has always been a result of 3-4 since the last hardcover rulebook.

 

[Jacob Dryearth]

Just to be clear on the updated advancement tables for gangers and leader. The only thing that has changed really is that gangers becoming specialist gain a random skill for a 20 credit increase.

Gangers cost increase is 20 credits for becoming a specialist, but the cost increase to upgrade a specialist to a champion is 40 credits.

The cost increase for primary skills is 20 credits regardless if they are chosen or random.

The cost increase for secondary skills is 35 credits whether they are chosen or random.

Champions can also now select a secondary skill for 12 xp as well, which finally makes secondary skill access somewhat useful.

Also BS and WS has always been a result of 3-4 since the last hardcover rulebook.

I deleted my comment, I was looking at my advancement table which had an error. Although I've always found it odd that WS and BS are so rare compared to Initiative and Movement. Also there is the fact that GW has now published about 8 lasting injury tables without including an Initiative injury...

 

[Ruskins]

An observation/grumble that I have just had with my group.

On the Lasting Injury table the word 'decrease' is used to describe both adding and subtracting from fighter stats

For example Humiliation says decrease Leadership and Cool by 1 but actually means increase these values by 1.

Hobbled/Enfeebled/Spinal Injury say decrease their stats by one and this time means decrease values by 1.

Impressive Scars says increase Cool by 1 but actually means decrease the value of Cool by 1.

I cant find anywhere that explains that decreasing certain stats actually means increase the value, its really confusing language.

If it said something like "add 1 to Cool check rolls" or "subtract 1 from Cool check rolls" or "worsen" rather than decrease it would make more sense.

 

[MusingWarboss]

An observation/grumble that I have just had with my group.

On the Lasting Injury table the word 'decrease' is used to describe both adding and subtracting from fighter stats

I have a feeling this type of language has been in and out of use since 2017.

It seems to be a holdover from general GW games where the counting did go the other way for most stuff.

So you often get decrease when they mean increase as the older games you did need to do that. I think it’s such common language within GW that they haven’t realised it didn’t make sense any more.

So for example ORB-NCE era BS 3 is the same as N17-23 BS 4+

So the hit modifier of -1 in the earlier game was applied to the statline, in the newer game it’s applied to the dice you roll. If you tried it to the statline, you’d actually end up with an easier shot.

Those things you mentioned are imported from classic Necromunda into the new game (as far as I can remember this is the first modern edition they appear in) so when they transferred them over I think they just forget which direction the modern stats go. All the double dice stats wasn’t in the older editions, bar Ld.

Impressive scars was +1 leadership in the old rules so they’ve just swapped Ld for Cl and not bothered to check that upping it makes it worse.

EDIT: Just dusted off the old 2017 tomes of Underhive and Gang War and this language was in use then.

Hand Injury: The fighter goes into recovery. In addition, their Weapon Skill is decreased by 1.

That would logically mean a WS 4+ would go to WS 3+, which is a lower number… Except…

I cant find anywhere that explains that decreasing certain stats actually means increase the value, its really confusing language.

…there is bit under the Characteristic Penalties section:
“if a characteristic that is depicted as a target number (Weapon Skill or Initiative, for example) is reduced, the actual number increases - in other words, if a fighter with a Weapon Skill of 4+ receives a Hand Injury, their Weapon Skill is decreased to 5+”

I imagine in the new 2023 Core Book there is a similar paragraph.

Quite why they can’t just use the appropriate word instead of all that faff is anyone’s guess.

 

[Ben_S]

I think if they said increase BS that would also cause confusion at this point.

Perhaps they could have gone for a system where you have to roll equal or under your BS stat, rather than equal or over, but then people find it weird that a low roll is good...

 

[MusingWarboss]

All the X+ stats are about your chance to score. It’s just getting into the mindset that if it says 4+ and you have to decrease that, you have to make your chances of rolling worse, so that would mean making it 5+, not 3+.

It’s obvious if you’ve played a lot of GW games in the past but I can see how it can trip up newer players.

 

[PalatineKatinka]

Another probably unintended quirk of how they've written Mounted rules just occurred to me.

A Mounted fighter that is shot isn't auto-pinned, instead taking an Initiative test and, if failed, immediately suffering an additional hit based on how far they moved last activation and after that hit is resolved their status is changed to Prone and Pinned.

RAW I think this would mean that a biker that is knocked down and Seriously Injured by the additional hit will then switch to being Pinned before proceding to resolving the original shot.

 

[libratorr]

Another probably unintended quirk of how they've written Mounted rules just occurred to me.

A Mounted fighter that is shot isn't auto-pinned, instead taking an Initiative test and, if failed, immediately suffering an additional hit based on how far they moved last activation and after that hit is resolved their status is changed to Prone and Pinned.

RAW I think this would mean that a biker that is knocked down and Seriously Injured by the additional hit will then switch to being Pinned before proceding to resolving the original shot.

Nah, pinning doesn’t get you out of being SI, otherwise people would be routinely lobbing frag grenades at their SI fighters to get them out of the condition to a state where they can stand up next round.