N18 Collected Errors/Typos in N23 Rulebook

[Sump Thing]

Have I understood this correctly? As some of the older gangs (cults, enforcers, etc) don't have Group Activation, Tools of Trade, Gang fighter (x) special rules, they don't get to use them? I do not find a mention in the new book, that leaders and champions of all gangs could get them, only descriptions what the said special rules do.

 

[TopsyKretts]

All leaders have Group Activation (2) and all Champions have Group Activation (1), with very rare exceptions, which might as well be mistakes but nobody knows.

You are comparing N19 gangs and gang structure (which relied on N18 rules) with N20+ gangs and gang structure (that includes the N23 rulebook you refer to). Back then, GA was implisit and universal. Now it is explicit. They never lost GA, just didn't get updated to have GA explicitly like all gangs afterwards. You need the full rules history to see it clearly. Welcome to Necromunda.

 

[Sump Thing]

Ok, so will this also mean that the older gangs still in N19 form, do not any more get to buy Specialist Gangers after the gang creation, and regular gangers/specialist have only acsess to their list weapons instead of free go at tradepost and blackmarket? As this is pretty much how the N20+ gangs do it.

 

[TopsyKretts]

That may be right, but can't verify those details at the moment. Specialist weapon access is already completely bonkers for that era. I think all had TP access. Check out Badzone Enforcers for a messy mix of new and old structure.

For simplicity I would just have a collection of sensible gang structure and apply that universally.

 

[Scophthalmus]

I haven't checked the entire thread, but it is at least not listed in the summary:
The order of the shooting sequence was changed to first do target priority, then choose the weapon. While this normally doesn't make a big difference, it gives the attacker the option to use a different weapon depending on the target they actually have to shoot.

Edit: Or has this been updated in an earlier rulebook?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Thanks, I'll have a look. I think there have been some historic discussions on catch-22 the order of shooting steps.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but Trading Post Sawn-Off Solid ammo is +5 creds here (as it was in Book of Outcasts) whereas in the House books it’s +10 creds.

So who is this for? The gangs should be using their own list prices, I guess Scum get it a bit cheaper then but was this a mistake in Outcast then copy+pasted over, or is this a stealth update or is it just one of those things that GW does just to be annoying??

 

[Sump Thing]

So who is this for? The gangs should be using their own list prices, I guess Scum get it a bit cheaper then but was this a mistake in Outcast then copy+pasted over, or is this a stealth update or is it just one of those things that GW does just to be annoying??

It's probably a stealth update, as 10 creds is a bit pricey for what it does. Just like the bolter-grenade launcher with frags in the gang books was a bit too expensive for 80, but has now dropped to 60 in the newest trading post.

 

[TopsyKretts]

I haven't checked the entire thread, but it is at least not listed in the summary:
The order of the shooting sequence was changed to first do target priority, then choose the weapon. While this normally doesn't make a big difference, it gives the attacker the option to use a different weapon depending on the target they actually have to shoot.

Edit: Or has this been updated in an earlier rulebook?

"Assess Target Priority" as a separate first step in the shooting sequence was introduced in N22. Before that, "Target Priority" was within the first step "Declare the shot". So being within is less clear in terms of order. This change is listed under N22 Ash Wastes: https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/collected-errors-typos-in-n22-rulebook-ash-wastes.12235/

 

[TopsyKretts]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but Trading Post Sawn-Off Solid ammo is +5 creds here (as it was in Book of Outcasts) whereas in the House books it’s +10 creds.

So who is this for? The gangs should be using their own list prices, I guess Scum get it a bit cheaper then but was this a mistake in Outcast then copy+pasted over, or is this a stealth update or is it just one of those things that GW does just to be annoying??

Already listed for Outcast:

N18 - Collected Errors/Typos in Book of the Outcast

A new expansion book, similar to Perils, Judgement & Ruin. Previous discussions: Book of Outcast General Discussion House of Shadow (Delaque) Errors General Discussion House of Faith (Cawdor) Errors General Discussion Hive War (N21 Rulebook) Errors House of Artifice (Van Saar) Errors...

yaktribe.games

As you mention that's when it was first introduced. Sticking to it here implies intention when also considering balance as mentioned by @Sump Thing. Same change also applied to TP pdf a couple of years ago.

There are several such odd cases where a cost has changed or simply listed as more expensive in gang equipment lists/tables (compared to TP universal cost). I consider all of them to be mistake, as there is explicit intent to have gang discount, but no mention of having higher cost for specific gangs or fighters. If going by RAW, you could pay 10 credits before first battle and then 5 credits afterwards from TP. IMO that's just silly and painful. Also consider Orlock specialict champ (Arms Master) doesn't have sawn-off in his list, but having TP access it is freely available at 5 credits after the first battle.

 

[libratorr]

Already listed for Outcast:

N18 - Collected Errors/Typos in Book of the Outcast

A new expansion book, similar to Perils, Judgement & Ruin. Previous discussions: Book of Outcast General Discussion House of Shadow (Delaque) Errors General Discussion House of Faith (Cawdor) Errors General Discussion Hive War (N21 Rulebook) Errors House of Artifice (Van Saar) Errors...

yaktribe.games

As you mention that's when it was first introduced. Sticking to it here implies intention when also considering balance as mentioned by @Sump Thing. Same change also applied to TP pdf a couple of years ago.

There are several such odd cases where a cost has changed or simply listed as more expensive in gang equipment lists/tables (compared to TP universal cost). I consider all of them to be mistake, as there is explicit intent to have gang discount, but no mention of having higher cost for specific gangs or fighters. If going by RAW, you could pay 10 credits before first battle and then 5 credits afterwards from TP. IMO that's just silly and painful. Also consider Orlock specialict champ (Arms Master) doesn't have sawn-off in his list, but having TP access it is freely available at 5 credits after the first battle.

I see the more expensive gang listings fluff-wise as the House leaders seeking to shape gang tactics just as they in turn subsidise other weapons to fit their combat doctrines.

For example, it would probably be unsustainably dangerous for GSC cultists to all run around with demo charges as an inexpensive, highly accessible weapon - the margin for error on that 5" blast with a range of Sx2 is too thin! Better to avoid wasting 15 credits and likely yourself and your comrades and take a (subsidised to 50 credits) hand flamer young hybrid!

From a design perspective it softly discourages people from spamming certain builds on round 1.

 

[MusingWarboss]

No one is spamming sawn offs surely??

Ah, that FAQ could certainly do with an update, particularly in line with the new Core Rulebook just to bring everything in line. Last one was for the AW release in 22 wasn’t it?

 

[MusingWarboss]

Another random one: are the Gang Relic rules missing from this book?

I couldn't see them in the index and seeing as every House book refers back to the “Necromunda Rulebook” when talking about House Terrain Relics its omission is a bit annoying.

I dug out the ancient tome from N17 and had a quick glance at them there (it will of course be in N18 as well) and as it’s only a sentence they could’ve slipped it in somewhere!!

Is it because they don’t include the scenario where one gang has to defile the others relic??

 

[TopsyKretts]

Rules for Gang Relic is on page 205 (Border Dispute scenario).

 

[MusingWarboss]

Ah so that scenario is included - glad it’s in there, though not easy to find if you don’t know where to look!

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Ah so that scenario is included - glad it’s in there, though not easy to find if you don’t know where to look!

It's like you are new to Games Workshop publications...

Kidding aside a lot of the time you need that one rule and it is never in a useful place. So many other scenarios and gang equipment use some part of the Gang Relic system. Why is it not in the normal section of general scenario rules like say, Sentries?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Ah so that scenario is included - glad it’s in there, though not easy to find if you don’t know where to look!

Wouldn't want to search without Ctrl+f

 

[MusingWarboss]

Wouldn't want to search without Ctrl+f

Can’t do that on a physical book!

Why is it not in the normal section of general scenario rules like say, Sentries?

I wondered that myself. There’s a section on scenario rules then it goes off on Ash Wastes stuff.

 

[TopsyKretts]

It sure is in my own scenario special rules section

 

[TopsyKretts]

Can someone verify if ceramite shield was updated to take up a weapon slot?