N18 Collected Errors/Typos in N23 Rulebook

[Lunarcruiser]

Can someone verify if ceramite shield was updated to take up a weapon slot?

It does not take up a weapon slot but it reduces your available ones by one.

In most cases it makes no difference.

Given that it treats the reduction as a discrete point it does "stack" with similar rules.
The Hands Free rule imposed by mounts also reduces your weapon slots by one so if you are mounted you have your slots reduced by two.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Ok great, that's weird this new part was added in N23, as it has been unchanged since first appearance in N19's Judgement! Why update it now? Not sure it matters if weapon slots gets -1 or it takes up a weapon slot? But you are absolutely correct it reduces the weapon slots by 1. Here is the text addded:

A fighter can be equipped with a Ceramite shield in addition to a suit of armour, however a fighter carrying a Ceramite shield reduces the number of weapons they can carry by one.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Not sure it matters if weapon slots gets -1 or it takes up a weapon slot? But you are absolutely correct it reduces the weapon slots by 1.

I can only see it really mattering in that it stacks with othe Rules such as Hands Free further reducing it.

Also if it takes up a Weapon slot itself then it would be subject to Disarm in a round about way. Maybe some Psyker powers.

It would make Buldging Biceps even more useless. You would free up a hand with the skill but have the weapon slot you free up for a duel weapon be taken up by the shield. (no practical difference.

Those last too really are not important differences.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Why is it not in the normal section of general scenario rules like say, Sentries?

It is in the new Hive Secundus rulebook hehe.

 

[MusingWarboss]

It is in the new Hive Secundus rulebook hehe.

Really? So someone actually noticed it was impossible to find unless you read the scenarios and then knew where it was and have corrected it… amazing.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Really? So someone actually noticed it was impossible to find unless you read the scenarios and then knew where it was and have corrected it… amazing.

That sounds like common sense.
Heresy!!!!

 

[MusingWarboss]

That sounds like common sense.
Heresy!!!!

Someone’s gonna get fired for that.

Everyone knows these books should have at least two contracting definitions for at least one rule, trait or statline, a smattering of spelling mistakes and if possible one trait, skill or reference should be given a similar but different name than every other instance of it.

If they could also include a reference, ideally a page number, to another book which is now out of publication then that’s the cherry on top.

Oh and get the spine typeface wrong for extra OCD triggering points.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Someone’s gonna get fired for that.

Everyone knows these books should have at least two contracting definitions for at least one rule, trait or statline, a smattering of spelling mistakes and if possible one trait, skill or reference should be given a similar but different name than every other instance of it.

If they could also include a reference, ideally a page number, to another book which is now out of publication then that’s the cherry on top.

Oh and get the spine typeface wrong for extra OCD triggering points.

Still waiting for a random Battle fleet Gothic rule to show up. Maybe Brace for Impact in response to being charged.

 

[Aulenback]

Late to the game, and I suspect that this was discussed here, but I didn't see it in the summary on the first page.

Change to Hidden (from N22 Ash Wastes Rulebook) breaks the Sky Mantle.

N22 Ash Wastes rule book: Hidden confers an inability to be targeted beyond 3" (12" with photo goggles etc), aside from how it interacts with Visibility (X). This is obviously the rule that the Sky Mantle was written to interact with.

N23 Core Rule Book: Hidden is an element of Visibility (X), and it applies automatically to all models when Visibility (X) is in play, and simply prevents being targeted outside of Visibility (X) range. As such, the Sky Mantle now does nothing - since if Visibility is in play, all models start Hidden automatically, and if it is not, it now has no effect.

[Added belatedly, because I only just NOW sought out and read the N22 Ash Wastes rulebook to find the Hidden rules in case of changes....]

 

[TopsyKretts]

You become Hidden even without Pitch Black (aka Visibility (X). So it should do something? I guess what it should say now is something like Visibility (3") for purposes of selecting target of Shoot/Charge/ranged attack/psychic power.

 

[libratorr]

Late to the game, and I suspect that this was discussed here, but I didn't see it in the summary on the first page.

Change to Hidden (from N22 Ash Wastes Rulebook) breaks the Sky Mantle.

N22: Hidden confers an inability to be targeted beyond 3" (12" with photo goggles etc), aside from how it interacts with Visibility (X). This is obviously the rule that the Sky Mantle was written to interact with.

N23: Hidden is an element of Visibility (X), and it applies automatically to all models at the start of the turn when Visibility (X) is in play, and simply prevents being targeted outside of Visibility (X) range. As such, the Sky Mantle now does nothing - since if Visibility is in play, all models start Hidden automatically, and if it is not, it has no effect.

[Added belatedly, because I only just NOW sought out and read the N22 Ash Wastes rulebook to find the Hidden rules in case of changes....]

You become Hidden even without Pitch Black (aka Visibility (X). So it should do something? I guess what it should say now is something like Visibility (3") for purposes of selecting target of Shoot/Charge/ranged attack/psychic power.

I think it was intended to offer the ability to become hidden before the end-of-round auto-application of hidden to everyone.

Use Case 1: a Nomad close combat specialist gets hit by a spotlight, can’t charge a relevant nearby enemy or get to cover and is going to be shot otherwise can still become hidden despite being revealed.

Use Case 2: Nomad sniper with Overwatch shoots someone in the opponent’s round, revealing themselves, survives the first wave of return fire. On their leader’s activation, good old Overseer grants the nearby sniper a couple of actions to get themselves into hidden before they get shot on the next activation.

Use Case 3: any tactics card that lets you make an extra activation.

In the wide open Ash Wastes, the chosen open of many of the brave and bold “half move and go prone behind any cover to be untargetable” option doesn’t get much play, what with the lesser amounts of cover to get behind.

 

[TopsyKretts]

It clearly states intention for being used even without Pitch Black:

If this fighter is at least 12" away from the nearest enemy model, they gain the Hidden condition (see the Necromunda: Rulebook) even if the current battle is not using the Pitch Black rules. They become Revealed if they move as well as all the normal triggers for becoming Revealed.

As a bonus, it can be re-hidden with Pitch Black as you point out, but that's more of an advanced usage.

 

[MusingWarboss]

Is there any real distinction between Zone Mortalis and Sector Mechanicus now?

Bar some fancy photos which show a classic ZM marketplace and then a classic multilevel hive (and an Ash Wastes one) some things seem muddled.

As I’ve just got some ZM Tactics Cards (shush you) I notice a lot of talk on ladders, stairs and levels! Not your classic maze style ZM game but rather sound like this new bastardised one which is basically Sector Mechanics with doors.

It does put the older cards that stipulate between them in an odd place though.

I’m pretty sure the only mention now is a box out that says you can play one level only if you all agree to it.

 

[TopsyKretts]

They are combined into "Underhive" battlefield. Any distinction depends on whether you want tunnels with roof over the columns or not.

All the talk of stairs is because that was the latest shiny plastic from GW:

So what better way to promote it than give it special rules and apply it to all sorts of tactics cards?

For ladders, I don't know. Probably an attempt to give extended use to Sector Mechanicus equivalent.

 

[SirWalterManny]

Do the ‘Sneak Attack’ rules, and the ‘Silent’ weapon trait contradict each other? Or am I mising something?

“RAISING THE ALARM (p192)
The alarm is raised if:
• A sentry has spotted an attacker.
• An attacker fires a ranged weapon without the Silent trait.
• An attacker fires a ranged weapon with the Silent trait and the defender rolls a 4+.
• A sentry is hit by a shooting attack.”

“SILENT (p316)
“In scenarios that use the Sneak Attack special rules, there is no test to see whether the alarm is raised when this weapon is fired. ”

 

[Vonvilkee]

I don't think you are missing anything current...

That said I think there was something once upon a time where there was a test based on getting hit with a weapon (and firing it). I think the silent rule you have is ignoring the basic firing it check but the missing if hit but not at least downed the alarm is raised interaction seems to have been changed.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Do the ‘Sneak Attack’ rules, and the ‘Silent’ weapon trait contradict each other? Or am I mising something?

“RAISING THE ALARM (p192)
The alarm is raised if:
• A sentry has spotted an attacker.
• An attacker fires a ranged weapon without the Silent trait.
• An attacker fires a ranged weapon with the Silent trait and the defender rolls a 4+.
• A sentry is hit by a shooting attack.”

“SILENT (p316)
“In scenarios that use the Sneak Attack special rules, there is no test to see whether the alarm is raised when this weapon is fired. ”

Nice, you caught another error for the N23+ rules This has remained in all publications after also.

 

[SirWalterManny]

I don't think you are missing anything current...

That said I think there was something once upon a time where there was a test based on getting hit with a weapon (and firing it). I think the silent rule you have is ignoring the basic firing it check but the missing if hit but not at least downed the alarm is raised interaction seems to have been changed.

I think the sentry/sneak attack rules have been one part fo the rules which have gone back and forth so many times with each reprint of the rules, it has been difficult to track (and in my experience have to carefully check (prior to core 2023 rules) which version of the rules an opponent was playing,

I think the ‘raising the alarm’ test for firing weapon was consistent through each rule set; you rolled a d6, added the weapon STR and if over 10 it raised the alarm. Now it is just using any ranged weapon (without the silent trait) it raises the alarm.

The oddity was you could shoot someone, not raise the alarm… and then hit and pin them but the sentry still wouldn’t spot you (or the fact they had been shot). This did change in the limited ‘Hive War’ rulebook where an extra line was added to the bit about ‘if engaged’ to also cover ‘if targeted by a ranged attack and becoming pinned/prone’, but this then disappeared again in the Ash Wastes Rulebook which followed. It was brought back in the Core Rulebook, and applies to being hit by any ranged attack.

So I think its just that new line in the core rulebook about Silent weapons triggering the alarm on a 4+ which is new, and which contradicts the rules for the ‘silent’ weapon trait which indicate they don’t raise the alarm at all.

But actually, have just realised is more confusing as now if any sentry is hit by any ranged attack, this automatically raises the alarm… so actually, the silent trait no longer does anything unless you ‘miss’ the sentry.

I think I’d prefer that on the whole:

- firing any ranged weapon WITHOUT the SILENT trait automatically raises the alarm.
- firing any ranged weapon WITH the SILENT trait did NOT automatically raise the alarm (and required no d6 roll test), but subsequently
- if a sentry hit by a ranged attack was pinned or prone / seriously injured / out of action by that attack whilst visible and in spotting range of another sentry, this automatically raised the alarm.
- if the sentry hit by the ranged attack was still pinned and prone / seriously injured and prone when it is the defenders turn to activate a model, then this automatically raises the alarm.
- but if the sentry is hit, is not visible to another sentry, and is taken out of action by the shot (or before the defender next activates a sentry) the alarm is not raised and play continues.

 

[Hobo86]

(and bolters can still be silenced... how?)

 

[Lunarcruiser]

(and bolters can still be silenced... how?)

Easy.
You sneak up behind the sentry and use it as a club to snap their neck.