N18 Collected Errors/Typos in The Book of Judgement
- Thread starter Jacob Dryearth
- Start date
Brutes with laspistol/autopistol and fighting knife? That's a first! If you are trying to confirm whether they have the correct stats, you also need to ask if they have the correct equipment!
We have many brute-like fighters already:
We have many brute-like fighters already:
- Iron Automata
- Ogryn
- Ambot
- Stig-shambler
- Spyker
- Khimerix
- 'Zerker
- Servitor (Ogryn)
- Servo-suit
- Subnautican
I'm not here to cause controversy. I was nearly surprised to see the reply on some pictures of some void born scum that I had converted from Genecult Neophytes (aka human size)
I posted them on various groups, and the Eye of Horus: Gangbang (a rather good Necromunda podcast from the guys who do the Eye of Horus 30k podcast). Was one of those group.
I'm including the screenshot for everyone's benefit.
As for the pistol knife combo I don't know why, it was certainly part of the the reason I questioned the stats in the first place. I didn't ask any further questions, just politely thanked him for his reply.
Al
Agreed, hence why most of us though that some combination of the stats, equipment or numbers were a typo. All I appear to have in advertedly confirmed is that the stats for the 'Void Born Scum' are correct and not a typo.
The number of them or their equipment could be in error, or it could be that we're all assuming that we must be right (as I clearly demonstrated by making my own human sized models).
Anyway at least the bosun I made is a good representation of that model, and the two other models I made can with a little extra work become two Hive Scum.
I'm not here to cause controversy. I was nearly surprised to see the reply on some pictures of some void born scum that I had converted from Genecult Neophytes (aka human size)
I posted them on various groups, and the Eye of Horus: Gangbang (a rather good Necromunda podcast from the guys who do the Eye of Horus 30k podcast). Was one of those group.
I'm including the screenshot for everyone's benefit.
As for the pistol knife combo I don't know why, it was certainly part of the the reason I questioned the stats in the first place. I didn't ask any further questions, just politely thanked him for his reply.
Al
I sincerely apologize that my outburst seemed directed at you! It is aimed clearly at the game designers, I'm not shooting the messenger here. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention!
I guess we will have to wait until Forge World shows some pictures to decide of Andy Hoare knows what he's talking about or not. I for one think it is a cover for a well documented history of poor editing/proof reading.
Your conversions look great by the way, where did you get the autopistol with folding stock?
They are from the Atalan Jackals kit.
Don't worry about the post I just hoping to direct people to the (admittedly closed) FB group, rather than post the screenshot for proof.
I don’t see this mentioned yet. But all listed weapons with the Toxin trait also have a Strength value and some have a Damage value listed as well. This is redundant since Toxin weapons don’t make wound rolls nor cause damage.
This error is listed on the following pages:
The solution for the throwing knives and stiletto knives is simple, just use the profiles from Gangs of the Underhive.
The Rak’Gol razor gun is pretty simple too, just remove the Strength and Damage value.
The remaining two are more tricky since they involve weapon traits that don’t really work together. Added to this Desire’s Needle has a Strength value of S+2 which does not translate easily to the Toxin rules.
This error is listed on the following pages:
- Page 87. Throwing knives and stiletto knife both have a Strength value on Estus Jet’s fighter card.
- Page 98. Throwing knives have a Strength value on Gaen Gorvus’ fighter card.
- Page 99. Throwing knives have a Strength value on Jonny Razor’s fighter card.
- Page 104. The Rak’Gol razor gun has both a Strength and a Damage value.
- Page 107. The withertouch pistol has both a Strength and a Damage value. How does Melta and Toxin work together? Toxin does not cause damage and Melta only triggers when reducing the target to 0 wounds.
- Page 108. Desire’s needle has both a Strength and a Damage value. How does Power and Toxin work together? Toxin does not cause damage and Power increases damage by 1 on a natural 6 to hit.
The solution for the throwing knives and stiletto knives is simple, just use the profiles from Gangs of the Underhive.
The Rak’Gol razor gun is pretty simple too, just remove the Strength and Damage value.
The remaining two are more tricky since they involve weapon traits that don’t really work together. Added to this Desire’s Needle has a Strength value of S+2 which does not translate easily to the Toxin rules.
Some of those we've found, namely the wrong throwing knife stats. The incongruous traits are new to this list so I shall add them. I have called limited + scarce for gas shells.
It seems like this book is intended to work with a version of toxin and gas that isn't in the hardback rules...
For now individual groups will need to decide how these trait conflicts and damage values for gas/toxin work.
It seems like this book is intended to work with a version of toxin and gas that isn't in the hardback rules...
For now individual groups will need to decide how these trait conflicts and damage values for gas/toxin work.
Only saw the stiletto knife hit modifier and throwing knife lack of Silent mentioned. But of course the Strength value issue is also fixed by using the stats from Gangs of the Underhive.
Yes it would appear that maybe this book is written with different Toxin and Gas rules in mind.
Gas Shells don’t have Limited + Scarce, at least not in my copy of the book. They do however have Limited + Single Shot. Which does make a lot more sense, even though it does make the ammunition incredibly expensive. Single Shot states that you do not roll an Ammo Die (unless the weapon also has Rapid Fire), as your Ammo Roll always counts as having failed.
Together this means that you only ever get to fire Gas Shells once, since they automatically fail their Ammo Roll when fired, and then due to Limited are removed from the fighter’s equipment.
Edit: The same combination of Limited + Single Shot also applies to Warp Rounds.
Yes it would appear that maybe this book is written with different Toxin and Gas rules in mind.
Gas Shells don’t have Limited + Scarce, at least not in my copy of the book. They do however have Limited + Single Shot. Which does make a lot more sense, even though it does make the ammunition incredibly expensive. Single Shot states that you do not roll an Ammo Die (unless the weapon also has Rapid Fire), as your Ammo Roll always counts as having failed.
Together this means that you only ever get to fire Gas Shells once, since they automatically fail their Ammo Roll when fired, and then due to Limited are removed from the fighter’s equipment.
Edit: The same combination of Limited + Single Shot also applies to Warp Rounds.
Thanks for the correction, got my ammo traits mixed up. Limited + single shot appears to work as you say, but I wonder if that is the intention.
Alright, this one gets a bit in the weeds but hear me out...
Another strange thing I have noticed is that the special ammunition in this book does not follow the same conventions used in The Book of Peril. For example: in The Book of Peril pg. 42 we see that the special rounds are separated by weapon type; auto-weapon, shotgun, bolt, and grenade launcher. In The Book of Judgement on page 110 separates the special ammo by ammo type; chem darts, focusing crystal, gas shells etc. An editorial decision, yes, but one with some repercussions.
Furthermore, The Book of Peril specifically mentions that auto-weapon ammunition can be used in any autogun or autopistol (reclaimed or otherwise), heavy stubber, or a combi-weapon with an auto-weapon component. The Book of Judgement specifies a slightly different mix of weapons for things such as static rounds; autoguns, stub cannons, autopistols, stub guns, long rifles and heavy stubbers.
This leads to odd things like static rounds not being available for combi-weapons, and rad rounds not being available for stub guns. So it seems like there was not coordination with weapon classification between books as far as what ammo is available for what weapon type. Another oddity in the Book of Peril is that the chem darts can be bought for the needler/needle gun, which means it is explicitly allowed in the needler half of the needler/bolter combi-weapon, while other rounds in the book are not given the luxury of use in combi-weapons of any type.
Edit:
Also this strays into opinion and conjecture, which are beyond my intended scope for this topic: obvious or verifiable typos and topographical errors. Perhaps my original intent is not broad enough.
Another strange thing I have noticed is that the special ammunition in this book does not follow the same conventions used in The Book of Peril. For example: in The Book of Peril pg. 42 we see that the special rounds are separated by weapon type; auto-weapon, shotgun, bolt, and grenade launcher. In The Book of Judgement on page 110 separates the special ammo by ammo type; chem darts, focusing crystal, gas shells etc. An editorial decision, yes, but one with some repercussions.
Furthermore, The Book of Peril specifically mentions that auto-weapon ammunition can be used in any autogun or autopistol (reclaimed or otherwise), heavy stubber, or a combi-weapon with an auto-weapon component. The Book of Judgement specifies a slightly different mix of weapons for things such as static rounds; autoguns, stub cannons, autopistols, stub guns, long rifles and heavy stubbers.
This leads to odd things like static rounds not being available for combi-weapons, and rad rounds not being available for stub guns. So it seems like there was not coordination with weapon classification between books as far as what ammo is available for what weapon type. Another oddity in the Book of Peril is that the chem darts can be bought for the needler/needle gun, which means it is explicitly allowed in the needler half of the needler/bolter combi-weapon, while other rounds in the book are not given the luxury of use in combi-weapons of any type.
Edit:
Also this strays into opinion and conjecture, which are beyond my intended scope for this topic: obvious or verifiable typos and topographical errors. Perhaps my original intent is not broad enough.
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Some stuff I just found:
Page 105
The Neural Flayer has the Concussive trait, there is no Concussive trait but there is a Concussion trait.
Suggested solution: change the trait to Concussion.
Page 105
The Neural Flayer has the Fear trait on both firing modes, but Gas only on the Full Blast. Fear has no effect without the Gas.
Suggested solution: remove the Fear trait from the Short Burst profile. As it is currently written Short Burst having the Fear Trait does not break anything as it is simply ignored because no Injury roll is made, it it's simply sloppy editing.
Edit:
Page 57
The Purchase Equipment rules mention nothing about common item's availability from the Black Market, and neither do the following sections on Rare or Illegal items. As written there is no way to purchase these items.
Suggested solution: Allow gangs to purchase Common items in the Black Market Trading Post as if they were Common items in the regular Trading Post.
Page 105
The Neural Flayer has the Concussive trait, there is no Concussive trait but there is a Concussion trait.
Suggested solution: change the trait to Concussion.
Page 105
The Neural Flayer has the Fear trait on both firing modes, but Gas only on the Full Blast. Fear has no effect without the Gas.
Suggested solution: remove the Fear trait from the Short Burst profile. As it is currently written Short Burst having the Fear Trait does not break anything as it is simply ignored because no Injury roll is made, it it's simply sloppy editing.
Edit:
Page 57
The Purchase Equipment rules mention nothing about common item's availability from the Black Market, and neither do the following sections on Rare or Illegal items. As written there is no way to purchase these items.
Suggested solution: Allow gangs to purchase Common items in the Black Market Trading Post as if they were Common items in the regular Trading Post.
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They started by copy-pasting the first part, then referencing instead of reprinting the second part. However, the second part would need to be modified to replace Wastes Territory with Whisper Brokers Racket. So they added in the second part. Forgot to delete/change the reference, then on top of that forgot to change Wastes to Whisper Brokers. Mistake upon mistake!
Point of conjecture: It seems the editors don't know the rules well enough to catch a lot of these mistakes.
Follow up Question: Why on earth don't the editors know the rules for the game *inside and out* if they are going to be editing the books??
Sorry for the slight aside. It's just.....wow......
Follow up Question: Why on earth don't the editors know the rules for the game *inside and out* if they are going to be editing the books??
Sorry for the slight aside. It's just.....wow......
On a similar note, a question I've had is whether these issues are unique to Necromunda, or if they show up in other Forgeworld and Specialist books (Blood Bowl, Titanicus, the Heresy books, etc). I think I'd be more forgiving is the issues were spread out across the lines and a bit less forgiving if they are not as Necromunda's the only one that interests me.
Blood Bowl is in a much better position. It started quite awkwardly because the core (including teams) is almost identical to previous edition. So in the first year, it was some "new" releases, but it was mostly existing teams, stats, costs, skills, star players (special characters). A few minor mistakes were made (some examples):
In addition to the core game and re-releasing old teams and star players, they are also adding a bunch of new stuff, most of it is optional. Star Players now consists of a mix of new and old. Each time a new team is (re-)released, there is a bunch of additional stuff (inducements, dice, pitch rules, special ball rules ++). Most of this is without error! It mostly just works out of the box, no real issues at all. There have been some discussion on balance, but that should be inevitable.
I would say there are some issues with Blood Bowl that:
1) The cards are a "problem" that has gotten out of hand for blood bowl. We see an increasing amount of cards for Necromunda at the moment. Blood Bowl has 6 different types of "tactics cards", and multiple ways of drawing them before a game. The amount of cards are steadily increasing for each team. I believe there are currently 169 cards total. Too much! And the new cards are less original, giving some temporary skill to a player.
2) Inconsistency between teams. The first teams did not get the full list of additional content. The later teams have more additional/optional content from their Spike Magazines. For example Humans and Orcs from the starter box does not have their own pitch rules, wizards etc.
3) Same as with Necromunda, the amount of content is very high. Luckily Blood Bowl compiles almost all new content each year into Almanacs (compilation books). This is good, but you still need a bunch of books to have all the rules.
- rolling on a D8 table was labeled "D6" (Chaos shaman). This was later corrected in compilation book.
- wood elf line cost was 7000 instead of 70000. This was later corrected in compilation book.
- Bloodweiser keg/babe quick reference card have incorrect cost.
- A star player had incorrect stats from another star player
In addition to the core game and re-releasing old teams and star players, they are also adding a bunch of new stuff, most of it is optional. Star Players now consists of a mix of new and old. Each time a new team is (re-)released, there is a bunch of additional stuff (inducements, dice, pitch rules, special ball rules ++). Most of this is without error! It mostly just works out of the box, no real issues at all. There have been some discussion on balance, but that should be inevitable.
I would say there are some issues with Blood Bowl that:
1) The cards are a "problem" that has gotten out of hand for blood bowl. We see an increasing amount of cards for Necromunda at the moment. Blood Bowl has 6 different types of "tactics cards", and multiple ways of drawing them before a game. The amount of cards are steadily increasing for each team. I believe there are currently 169 cards total. Too much! And the new cards are less original, giving some temporary skill to a player.
2) Inconsistency between teams. The first teams did not get the full list of additional content. The later teams have more additional/optional content from their Spike Magazines. For example Humans and Orcs from the starter box does not have their own pitch rules, wizards etc.
3) Same as with Necromunda, the amount of content is very high. Luckily Blood Bowl compiles almost all new content each year into Almanacs (compilation books). This is good, but you still need a bunch of books to have all the rules.
I don’t know how they go about getting publications printed at Specialist Games. However I could well imagine Editors being different from Game Designers.
Plus I’m sure they do have both. Because it was mentioned once in relation to the publication teams correcting Palanite to Palatine.
I guess the people responsible for layout have zero knowledge of the material they’re formatting so can’t catch errors in stat lines and any missing tags for things.
One would hope the designers would send a document forward which was sound. Seems not though.
Plus I’m sure they do have both. Because it was mentioned once in relation to the publication teams correcting Palanite to Palatine.
I guess the people responsible for layout have zero knowledge of the material they’re formatting so can’t catch errors in stat lines and any missing tags for things.
One would hope the designers would send a document forward which was sound. Seems not though.
I believe they are. Mostly because the other Specialist Games stuff is either derivative of existing material (BB, HH) or was worked on for a very long time (Titanicus).
Necromunda seems unique in that is a complete rewrite, has seen several lead designers and is being made up as they go along.
Necromunda seems unique in that is a complete rewrite, has seen several lead designers and is being made up as they go along.
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