N18 Collected Errors/Typos in the House of Faith (Cawdor)

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TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Dec 29, 2017
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A summary of various findings (contributed by several yaktribe champions).

INTERNAL CONFLICTS
  • Hive Preacher: Counts as 3 fighters when generating Faith dice in the End phase, if "on the battlefield and not Seriously Injured".
    • Comment: The rules for generating Faith dice also requires the fighter not to be Broken.
  • Hive Incensive (Gang Terrain): Deployed minimum 6" away from enemy fighters.
    • Comment: Universal rule for Gang Terrain specifies that deployment happens before fighters. So deploying outside 6" of enemy fighters makes no sense.
  • Caged Heretic (Gang Terrain): Deployed minimum 6" away from enemy fighters.
    • Comment: Universal rule for Gang Terrain specifies that deployment happens before fighters. So deploying outside 6" of enemy fighters makes no sense.

EXTERNAL CONFLICTS (CONFLICT WITH PREVIOUS PUBLICATIONS)
  • Hexagrammic fetish listed as field armour.
    • Comment: Is this an update or should it still be Wargear?
  • Heavy club got Concussion.
    • Comment: Is this an update or a mistake?
  • Sawn-off shotgun (p120) ammo (Solid & Scatter) is mostly copy-pasted from regular Shotgun (but retained the correct traits including Plentiful).
    • Comment: Step 1) Copy similar profile (but NOT the same profile from a previous book 😂). Step 2) update traits. Step 3) ...
  • Shotgun (p120) ammo Inferno got Am 4+ and Knockback.
    • Comment: What happened to Am 5+ and Blaze? Another copy-paste error?
  • Hand flamer, Laspistol, Stubgun & dumdum (p121) got Combi.
    • Comment: Copy-paste error marathon? If Hand Flamer actually was Combi, it should also have Unstable.
  • Ogryn (Brute) profile is changed to the same as Ambot.
    • Comment: Copy-paste error.
  • Cawdor Leader swapped Savant (Secondary) for Shoot (Secondary).
    • Comment: Not sure if this is intended or not.
ERRORS
  • Redemptionist Juve (Zealot) Promotion specifies "Promotion (Redemptionist Specialist)", stating that "...this fighter may be promoted to become either a Cawdor Specialist, or a Redemptionist Specialist, as the controlling player chooses", but also "When a fighter is promoted in this way, they will from now on count as Redemptionist Specialist for the purposes of determining which equipment skill sets they can access. ...gain all special rules associated with a Redemptionist Specialist.".
    • 2nd print (successful fix): Redemptionist Juve (Zealot) can only be promoted to Redemptionist Specialist Ganger.
  • Redemptionist Juve (Zealot): Doesn't specify that Hot-headed is lost during promotion.
    • 2nd print (successful fix): Lose Hot-headed during promotion.
  • Incendiary Traps (Hidden Traps) have no description other than weapon profile.
    • Comment: How are these triggered? Can they be shot?
  • The weapon profile for Autogun/Polearm has Am 5+.
    • Comment: This is an existing error, this weapon includes a "Reclaimed Autogun", not "Autogun". Compare this to the Flamer/Autogun (Combi) which has the actual Autogun profile.
  • Polearm costs 30 credits, while Polearm with Reclaimed Autogun costs 20.
    • Comment: 10 credits discount to get a free gun? You can upgrade to master-crafted and it's still cheaper. This is essentially a non-option (no-one will take it), or in worst case a trap for new players who aren't aware. The Polearm should effectively be removed from the book.
  • Tithed to the Frateris Militia (p85): The last sentence mentions a fighter being "seconded", when it should say "tithed".
    • Comment: It was House Greim that causes fighters to be seconded, but the sentence that appears to be copy and pasted does not contain the word "seconded" in House of Chains. Strange indeed.
  • Blessed of Cawdor (House Favour): For 1 cycle, gain a free Juve with the Gang Leader special rule. The actual leader loses the Gang Leader special rule.
    • Comment: Gang Leader only says that the fighter can't voluntarily retire and must be replaced if killed (or otherwise removed from the gang). What about Leading by Example (12")? Group Activation (2)? RAW, the only effect does is giving a free Juve that can't be retired. This would even allow the actual leader to retire.
  • Klovis (Agent): Got Restless Faith (skill).
    • Comment: This has no effect on an Agent.
  • Malakev (comes together with Klovis for free) does not have any alignment or fighter class.
    • Comment: What is this fighter? Not mentioned as outlaw (like Klovis), not agent (like Klovis). Is he a 'House Cawdor fighter'? Does he generate fate dice?
  • The Headsman (Bounty Hunter) follows the "Path of the Zealot".
    • Comment: This path doesn't exist. It should be Path of the Fanatic because it has all the same mentioned warband examples in fluff and headsman profile descriptions in the book.
  • Grav fist -ranged (Ambot) got AP-1 and Graviton Pulse.
    • Comment: Why?
  • Image with incorrect captions: P115 says one models is holding an axe and a Stubgun. P118 illustrations label those weapons as a maul and auto pistol.
    There’s a few other weird labels on p114, including another mislabelled auto pistol and calling the Cult icon a big axe.
NOTES
  • Redemptionist Juve has the Hot-headed special rule which so far has been uniquely linked to Prospects (Specialist Juve).
  • Holy Gang Relic (Gang Terrain) is ridiculously powerful, giving +1 to hit & wound within 6" for only 30 credits. Compare to the much more situational Escher gang relic at 100 credits, it may seem that the Holy Gang Relic should be limited to close combat only?
CHANGES AND IMPROVEMENTS
  • Explicitly specifies the exact number of fighters in the Guild :D
  • Rattus Tatterskin (Hive Scum) generates Faith dice as a normal Cawdor fighter. Can perform Articles of Faith (Path of the Doomed). Can be hired by both Law-abiding and Outlaw.
  • Headsman (Thane's Executioner) generates Faith dice as a normal Cawdor fighter. Gained Leading By Example (6").
  • Butcher's Cleaver (CGC) is renamed to Cleaver.
  • Terrifying (CGC) is renamed to Fearsome Reputation (Klovis).
  • Stig-Shambler (Brute):
    • Starts with twin-linked heavy stubber, cost is adjusted accordingly (+40).
    • Starts with flak (+10) for free.
    • Lost option to replace heavy club with polearm.
    • Gained Shooting (Primary), lost Savant (Primary).
  • Rogue Factoria: Before the battle, place 2 Loot caskets instead of 1 (if the scenario doesn't specify any special rules for loot caskets).
    • Comment: Loot caskets are very minor, so this update should be highly situational.
  • Cawdor's House Favour result of 2 results in a Ganger or Juve to be removed from the gang.
    • Comment: This is a very small change, but all other House gangs can choose any fighter to remove.
  • Gutterforged cloak can now be equipped in addition to other armour.
  • Polearm is consistently listed with -1 to hit (short range), this was not clear from internal conflicts in N18 (Gangs of the Underhive).

UNIVERSAL 'HOUSE OF ...' HOUSE GANG CODEX UPDATES AND ISSUES
These are updates and flaws in the universal structure of house gangs and can be expected to be repeated for all house gang codexes:
  • Gang Hierarchy specifies Cool tests for fleeing the battlefield is in the End phase. This is a change from start of the round. This is also according to Hive War rulebook (N21).
  • House Agents:
    • What happens when Petitioning for House Agent and the gang gets fined (2D6*10 credits), but can't pay?
    • The fined result (16+) will never trigger because no gang with 10+ Reputation is going to roll for Petition.
    • Since House Agents have a variable cost, what is their contribution to gang rating? Their Equipment rule state the free equipment you get for them should be accounted for when determining Gang Rating, but what is the base value of the House Agent? Generic has a rating of 40 or 80 credits? Special Character has rating of 100 or 200?
  • Bounty Hunter (Generic):
    • Can equip items from the Trading Post, but does not specify any limitation in Rarity. The old (universal) generic Bounty Hunter could use items with rarity 10 or less.
REVISED VERSION
Turns out also this book has been stealth updated with a revised version. This has been documented with photographical evidence here:
yaktribe.games

N18 - Books in revised versions?

There have been rumours of books being reprinted in revised/updated versions, but I was first now aware based on photo graphical evidence! This is from a youtube review (around first release in 2020): This was shared by @irishwizz: Take a look at the Wyld Bow with Damage '-' which was...
yaktribe.games yaktribe.games
The revised version will say "Second Printing" in small text on the copy right page.

The revised version reportedly fixes some of these mistakes listed above:
  • Redemptionist Juve can only be promoted to Redemptionist Specialist Ganger (as expected).
  • Redemptionist Juve lose Hot-headed when promoted (as expected).
 
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I'd still like to keep it there as it will be consistent with all the other "House of" books. It is as you say not a mistake and no longer a stealth update. It does however depend on how N21 Hive War rulebook is used, if people are aware of the changes it includes and accept them as updates or not. As it is only available in the box, some people are probably gonna skip it and never know this.
 
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I'd argue that the Hive Preacher needing to be unbroken and not seriously injured in order to generate 3 faith dice as not an error. Kind-of hard to preach when you're face down on the floor!

Edit, I misread this, ignore.

Page 85, "Tithed to the Frateris Militia", the last sentence mentionsa fighter being "seconded", when it should say "tithed". I was House Greim that causes fighters to be seconded, but the sentence that appears to be copy and pasted does not contain the word "seconded" in House of Chains. Strange indeed.
 
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The headsman follows path of fanatic. You can tell because it has all the same mentioned warband examples in fluff and headsman profile descriptions in the book.

Not necessarily an error but Klovis fluff also mentions him in mesh armour but the profile has him in flak armour
 
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Very late to this party, but the free Juve gained by Blessed of Cawdor is free along with his equipment. It does not specify a Bonepicker (Juve) or Zealot (Juve) so you can take either. It also specifies all his equipment is free, but does not place a credit limit on that equipment. You could equip a juve that would cost around 420 credits. Then move his equipment to the stash, and redistribute it through the gang.
 
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1) The Juve can obviously be Redemptionist or Cawdor, as most/all rules are made to be usable by both. I don't think this is any problem as Cawdor is mix-and-match whatever you like.
2) And while the equipment is indeed free, the topic of swapping equipment is still unclear and controversial (RAW at least). The intention is obviously that the Juve likes to show off and don't want to give or trade away his stuff. And how did you accumulate equipment worth 420? The most expensive I could find was Eviscerator, Knife, Incombustible Hauberk, all nades and all equipment to around 340?

Getting free stuff for 340 + the fighter itself is a lot, but it is bloated and not particularly effective.

Noticed another thing, Lord of Rats (Piety skill) applies to "Juves (or Prospects)", but Cawdor is famously the gang without any Prospects (although Redemptionist serves as a sort of specialist equivalent and their Juve has some Prospect abilities). Wouldn't list it as an error though as other gangs could potentially get it as a random "any" skill.
 
My copy doesn’t say that Redemptionist zealots lose fast learner twice, it doesn’t list hot-headed as one of the skills lost though.
My Cawdor juve entry also doesn’t have the hot-headed rule.
I’ve got a physical copy of the book, are these errors in the pdf?
 
TopsyKretts said:
And while the equipment is indeed free, the topic of swapping equipment is still unclear and controversial (RAW at least). The intention is obviously that the Juve likes to show off and don't want to give or trade away his stuff. And how did you accumulate equipment worth 420? The most expensive I could find was Eviscerator, Knife, Incombustible Hauberk, all nades and all equipment to around 340?
Click to expand...
What is unclear about swapping equipment? The rules state that you can move wargear from a fighter to the stash any time you give them a new piece of wargear. A free zealot can come with up to 270 credits worth of free wargear that you can then move to your stash in exchange for a random piece of gear from the trading post. And that's only if you disallow duplicate items (i.e. you can't get infinite bags of free frag grenades)

TopsyKretts said:
Wouldn't list it as an error though as other gangs could potentially get it as a random "any" skill.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is supposed to be possible. House specific skillsets are not listed as accessible to other fighters from other houses (while common skillsets are always listed even if only as '—', like Cunning for Goliath fighters for instance)

cardyfreak said:
My copy doesn’t say that Redemptionist zealots lose fast learner twice, it doesn’t list hot-headed as one of the skills lost though.
My Cawdor juve entry also doesn’t have the hot-headed rule.
Click to expand...
I checked the digital version and it's the same as yours.
I don't think anyone suggested that Bonepickers were hot-headed though, only Zealots are.
 
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Thorgor said:
I don't think this is supposed to be possible. House specific skillsets are not listed as accessible to other fighters from other houses (while common skillsets are always listed even if only as '—', like Cunning for Goliath fighters for instance)
Click to expand...
That may be RAI, personally I didn't put much value in why empty skill sets were included, could be default copy-paste. Listing all skill sets is impossible both physically (not enough width for 12 skill sets) and because the game isn't "complete" yet (maybe now, but not previously).
 
TopsyKretts said:
That may be RAI, personally I didn't put much value in why empty skill sets were included, could be default copy-paste. Listing all skill sets is impossible both physically (not enough width for 12 skill sets) and because the game isn't "complete" yet (maybe now, but not previously).
Click to expand...
Not that it matters much in practice as Primary skills are the only ones anybody will ever get, but I'm pretty sure a Goliath with a Piety skill or (Emprah forbid) a Palanite drill skill or Psychic power should get frown upon (even if they are Unborn).
 
TopsyKretts said:
Redemptionist Juve has the Hot-headed special rule which so far has been uniquely linked to Prospects (Specialist Juve).
Click to expand...

Thorgor said:
I don't think anyone suggested that Bonepickers were hot-headed though, only Zealots are.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my reading comprehension has failed me there. Not for the first time have I been confused by all the names of fighters 😂
 
Why I insist on using the basics:
  • Leader
  • Champion
    • Specialist
  • Ganger
    • Specialist
  • Juve
    • Specialist (Prospect)
Still on the fence about Prospect, as it is universal, but Champion Specialists don't have a similar title :( Which makes them 'Spceialist' in lack of a better name. When all others are specialists, then so will juves be (in my opinion).

Note that Redemptionists serve a similar role to Specialists of other gangs. Ie. Redemptionist champ skill sets mirror those of other gangs' specialist champs. The Redemptionist Juve is similar to other gang's Juve Specialists (Prospects).
 
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Thorgor said:
Not that it matters much in practice as Primary skills are the only ones anybody will ever get, but I'm pretty sure a Goliath with a Piety skill or (Emprah forbid) a Palanite drill skill or Psychic power should get frown upon (even if they are Unborn).
Click to expand...
Goliath Leader can already be psyker RAW & RAI, so that hardly breaks anything. I'm strictly speaking about skill sets here though, not to be confused by psychic powers (even if they are treated the same by psykers in respect to advancements). Having a cool close combat skill from Piety, Palanite drill or any other category hardly breaks anything either? As you say, nobody will use it RAW, so a non-issue. I use house rules which throws away buying advancements, so any skill may be unlikely but fully possible using random advancement. I like that it opens up new possibilities, just like infected house gangs do, or Bounty Hunter (Venator) gangs.
 
I don't really get why you insist on that classification.
There are 5 classes of fighters: Leader, Champion, Ganger, Specialist, Juve and Prospect. Gangs can have any number of distinct options for each of those classes (in the 0-2 range in practice), and while imperfect patterns exist special rules and equipment options are no longer tied to the class but directly to the fighter type (similar to how an axe variant is not guaranteed to have the Disarm trait).

TopsyKretts said:
Having a cool close combat skill Piety, Palanite drill or any other category hardly breaks anything either?
Click to expand...
Giving him a Cawdor Polearm, an Orlock legendary name or an Escher chemist buddy wouldn't break anything either and yet it's not allowed. My point is that those new skillsets are obviously designed as being house-specific.
 
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GW too made this classification on an early drawboard. It's a grouping thing. Earlier I was looking for patterns at stuff like Group Activation & Leading By Example, but those turned out to be random exceptions for a few gangs. It still hold some water on a gang-by-gang basis, for example Escher cannot be promoted to Specialist Champion, only regular Champion. Same with Delaque, their Leader and Specialist Champion can become Psykers, regular Champions cannot.

It is a distinction in the rules, so I made a separate category for it. Specialist Champion is to me as valid as Specialist Juve. At some point I'm gonna house rule the shit out of the gang structure, and by that point all kinds of specialists are in danger of becoming instinct... I don't see much gain when GW added those, other than sell new plastic minis.
 
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