N18 Collected Errors/Typos in the House of Shadow (Delaque)

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TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Dec 29, 2017
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The 6th and last of the House books.

Previous discussions:


A summary of various findings (contributed by several yaktribe champions).

INTERNAL CONFLICTS
  • Euclidean Artefact or Psychoteric Artefact?
    • Comment: Both names are used for the Gang Relic (Gang Terrain).
  • Suspensors are tagged as 'Heavy Weapons only', but the effects have changed to work on any Unwieldy weapons (including Melee weapons).
    • Comment: Changed one place, forgot to update all the other places?
  • Unbreakable Will (p87 & 90) got 2 slightly different wordings:
    "Whenever a Nerve or Willpower test is made for another fighter from the gang who is within 9" of this Psyker, use this Psyker‘s characteristic value."
    "Whenever a Nerve or Willpower test is made for a friendly fighter within 9" of the Wyrd, they may use the Wyrd’s Cool or Willpower characteristic instead of their own."
    • Comment: Probably functionally the same (though it depends on how meaningful the 'from the gang' distinction is supposed to be — the first version is also technically mandatory even if the Psyker has the worst stat) but it made me smile.
EXTERNAL CONFLICTS (CONFLICT WITH PREVIOUS PUBLICATIONS)
  • Sawn-off shotgun (p116) has the profile of Shotgun + Plentiful.
    • Comment: At least they got the Plentiful right 😂
  • Assail (p87): Cannot target obstacles.
  • Scouring (p87) is S2, AP- and not Continuous Effect.
    • Comment: 🤣 Can't be bothered commenting any more on wyrd powers. See earlier discussions and comparison tables.
  • Only Leader and Champion (not Specialist Champion) can be upgraded to Psyker (p97), but Specialist Champion can also be upgraded to Psyker (p38).
    • Comment: Which way is it?
  • Digi laser Am 6+.
    • Comment: All other sources with Am 6+, N18 GotU, HoI, HoA, Outcast, TP pdf and N23 Rulebook. Too bad as it would have been a good fix and avoid the problem that it isn't explained how Am works for close combat attacks.
  • Mind Control (p90): Changed to require LoS and Continuous Effect.
    • Comment: CE is obvious error (the effect is instantly and doesn't continue in any way). Requiring LoS may be intentional. First publication in N19 Ruins didn't require LoS nor was CE. This change has stayed the same in later publications (N21 Outcast).
ERRORS
  • Sightblind Trap is deployed in friendly deployment zone.
    • Comment: Some gang terrain don't have any specification for deployment, and default deployment is limited to the friendly deployment zone only. Is this on purpose? As a side note, the trap automatically triggers (no initiative test) and can't be disarmed or shot at. It is however non-lethal (flash only).
  • Web Trap:
    • Is deployed in friendly deployment zone.
      • Comment: Same as above. Gang Terrain is such a dirty part of these books :confused:
    • Has AP-2.
      • Comment: Why?
  • Paired psychomantic claws (p118) is missing versatile trait.
    • Comment: Minor.
  • Generic Delaque House Agents have access to Piety skills (Cawdor).
    • Comment: Copy-paste from previous book?
  • Grav pistol got AP-1 and Graviton Pulse.
    • Comment: Why?
  • Grav gun got AP-1 and Graviton Pulse.
    • Comment: Why?
  • Grav fist -ranged (Ambot) got AP-1 and Graviton Pulse.
    • Comment: Why?
  • Psychoteric Blade (Yageloth) has AP-2 and Phase.
    • Comment: Why?
  • Juves can't gain skills.
    • Comment: Classic copy paste, similar to several other books. Obvious mistake considering they have a table with available skill sets.
NOTES
  • The "Intelligence Gathering" scenario allows either side to drop early to make the result a draw and prevent the enemy from winning. The defender can both voluntarily bottle out and flee the battlefield.
    • Comment: Like so many other scenarios, this is flawed. Again, one side can just sit and shoot at the enemy who has to run around and do things to win. At least the attacker cannot win by exterminating the enemy.
CHANGES AND IMPROVEMENTS
  • Explicitly specifies the exact number of fighters in the Guild :D
  • Web solvent got a 5 credits discount.
  • Cephalopod Spekter renamed to Cephalopod Spektor and is 0-3 per fighter (instead of 0-1).
  • Several fighters traded Shooting for Savant (skill sets):
    • Juve: Lost Shooting (Secondary), gained Savant (Secondary).
    • Champion: Savant (Secondary → Primary) and Shooting (Primary → Secondary).
    • Ganger (Specialist): Lost Shooting (Primary), gained Savant (Primary).
  • Psi-Syndica (page 83) grants a fighter a random Psychoteric Wyrd Power instead of the original selection of 6 Wyrd Powers.
  • 3 new Wyrd Powers (Telepathy):
    • Invisibility (Double), CE
    • Mental Assault (Basic)
    • Hallucinations (Basic)
  • Suspensor (p121) can now be fitted to all Unwieldy weapons, not just shooting weapons. Works with shooting weapons as previously, but can now be fitted to Melee weapons to be used single-handedly (allowing the fighter to use a second close combat weapon).
    • Comment: A combination of old and new Bulging Biceps? Would be better as an update in another book, because there aren't any Unwieldy Melee weapons in this book (excepting on the Ogryn Brute who can't take suspensors). Suspensors on Leader and Champions are still tagged as 'Heavy Weapons Only', so RAW couldn't be fitted to a melee weapon anyway.
UNIVERSAL 'HOUSE OF ...' HOUSE GANG CODEX UPDATES AND ISSUES
These are updates and flaws in the universal structure of house gangs and can be expected to be repeated for all house gang codexes:
  • Gang Hierarchy specifies Cool tests for fleeing the battlefield is in the End phase. This is a change from start of the round. This is also according to Hive War rulebook (N21).
  • House Agents:
    • What happens when Petitioning for House Agent and the gang gets fined (2D6*10 credits), but can't pay?
    • The fined result (16+) will never trigger because no gang with 10+ Reputation is going to roll for Petition.
    • Since House Agents have a variable cost, what is their contribution to gang rating? Their Equipment rule state the free equipment you get for them should be accounted for when determining Gang Rating, but what is the base value of the House Agent? Generic has a rating of 40 or 80 credits? Special Character has rating of 100 or 200?
  • Bounty Hunter (Generic):
    • Can equip items from the Trading Post, but does not specify any limitation in Rarity. The old (universal) generic Bounty Hunter could use items with rarity 10 or less.
 
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Error: Under House Agents / Skills, Delaque house agents have access to 6 Cawdor themed skills (including Piety).

Should probably be: Agility, Cunning, Leadership, Savant, Shooting and Obfuscation (the 6 skill sets Delaque leaders have access to).
 
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This is the skills all generic agents should have access to:
1628305148632.png
 
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Something I've just spotted: Suspensors have changed.
pg121: Can now be fitted to all Unwieldy weapons, not just shooting weapons. Works with shooting weapons as previously, but there's an extra paragraph. "An Unwieldy close combat weapon fitted with suspensors can be used single-handedly, allowing the fighter to use a second close combat weapon." I think that makes them a combination of old and new Bulging Biceps?

The weird thing is that a) there aren't any Unwieldy melee weapons in the book, excepting on the Ogryn Brute who can't take suspensors. and b) suspensors on leaders and champions are still tagged as 'Heavy Weapons Only', so RAW couldn't be fitted to a melee weapon anyway.
 
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Even GW can't remember how Web works.

Pretty sure we've had to refer to the rulebook at least once a match to remember the exact details of Web, so I'm not surprised (Though I am disappointed) that GW clearly forgot how it works.
 
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Anyone know of a reason the Delaque Shadow Skill Access states that they may not gain access to additional skills? I'm guessing it's a bad copy/paste from the Ganger entry by the editor. Or am I missing something?
 
It's also there is HoArtifice and HoIron, my assumption is terrible copy/paste error that was corrected in HoFaith (Likely due to the extra complexity of Redemptionists) and has re-appeared in HoShadows. I can't see any logical reason why 3 Houses have Juves that can gain skills, and 3 House-Juves cannot gain skills.
 
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JayTee said:
It's also there is HoArtifice and HoIron, my assumption is terrible copy/paste error that was corrected in HoFaith (Likely due to the extra complexity of Redemptionists) and has re-appeared in HoShadows. I can't see any logical reason why 3 Houses have Juves that can gain skills, and 3 House-Juves cannot gain skills.
Click to expand...
Also note that all fighters including Juves have their own skill set table. That is pointless for fighters that can't get skills. House of Faith (Cawdor) may not have this mistake, but got similar copy-paste errors between fighter classes instead.
 
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Am I missing something, or can all Leaders and Champions (including Champ Specialist) be upgraded to Psyker in exactly the same way?

To use Psychoteric Whispers, a Delaque fighter must first be upgraded to become a Psyker. Only a Master of Shadow or Phantom may be upgraded in this way – note that Psy-Gheists may also make use of these powers as they are already Psykers when added to the gang. Fighters can either be upgraded to become Psykers during gang creation, or by spending XP later on:
  • A Delaque Master of Shadow or Phantom may be upgraded to become a Psyker when added to a gang roster for a cost of 30 credits (this increases their credits value accordingly). The fighter gains both the Psychoteric Mastery and Non-sanctioned Psyker special rules (as follows).
  • A Delaque Master of Shadow or Phantom may be upgraded to become a Psyker by taking an advance at a cost of 7 XP (this increases their credits value by +30). The fighter gains both the Psychoteric Mastery and Non-sanctioned Psyker special rules (as follows).
-page 97
Click to expand...

Psychoteric Whispers: When added to the gang, a Delaque Nacht-Ghul may be upgraded to have both the Psychoteric Mastery and Non-sanctioned Psyker special
rules, as described on page 97, for +30 credits (note that, alternatively, this fighter may gain these special rules as Advancements by spending XP, as described on
page 97).
-page 38
Click to expand...
 
TopsyKretts said:
Am I missing something, or can all Leaders and Champions (including Champ Specialist) be upgraded to Psyker in exactly the same way?
Click to expand...
Page 97 directly contradicts the Nacht-Ghul entry. Do I know which is correct? No. Is it possible to tell without an FAQ? Probably not.
This is a really divisive issue as you're effectively allowing or denying a Fighter type access to it's own House mechanic.
I think this should have its own thread, poll some opinions.
 
Do the Master of Shadow and Phantom also have an individual entry for Psychoteric Whispers similar to the Nacht-Gul?

To sum up, the rules state that:
  • Only <X> and <Y> can to <stuff>
  • <Z> can do the same <stuff> as <X> and <Y>
This can be interpreted in two ways:
  1. this is a needlessly convoluted way to allow <X>, <Y> and <Z> to do <stuff>
  2. the first rule is meant to strictly restrict <stuff> to <X> and <Y> and the second rule amounts to absolutely nothing
Interpretation #1 is congruous to the level of incompetence that has been displayed so far, while interpretation #2 would require the writers to be plain evil.
 
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Thorgor said:
Do the Master of Shadow and Phantom also have an individual entry for Psychoteric Whispers similar to the Nacht-Gul?

To sum up, the rules state that:
  • Only <X> and <Y> can to <stuff>
  • <Z> can do the same <stuff> as <X> and <Y>
This can be interpreted in two ways:
  1. this is a needlessly convoluted way to allow <X>, <Y> and <Z> to do <stuff>
  2. the first rule is meant to strictly restrict <stuff> to <X> and <Y> and the second rule amounts to absolutely nothing
Interpretation #1 is congruous to the level of incompetence that has been displayed so far, while interpretation #2 would require the writers to be plain evil.
Click to expand...
Either the individual entry for the Nacht-Ghul is a copy-paste error, (all 3 have that entry), or not listing Nacht-Ghul on P.97 is an oversight.
 
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