N18 Compendium YAQ (N18)

Aulenback

Gang Hero
Mar 29, 2016
1,452
2,726
128
Halifax, NS, Canada
It may be carry-over from the ORB and "original Underhive edition" (2004?) also called Necromunda Reloaded -- when they went to pdf. There was an article for that edition called "Stay! There's a Good Boy," about including dogs. In it, any gang [yes, even Scavvies] could hire dogs, up to three total for the gang, each of the three needed a separate handler.

So some may be vaguely remembering those rules, perhaps?
 

cainex1

Gang Hero
Dec 8, 2017
1,844
2,461
123
USA
This is a peculiar situation. On the face, rat trainers are going to sell you whatever they can but I see a real chance for abuse here. It wouldn't be very difficult at all to make a screening wall for anyone who would want to charge a character and where these never block LOS, you could just lock and shoot. I think (personally) a max of 5 would be as high as I would let things get.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
Ok, I've read the new version of the Venator rules. Most of the old fuzziness has been solved by removing the corresponding rules that were meant for the Turf War campaign (Venators now mostly work like any other gang), and they managed to make it clear when exactly the rare (11/10/8) equipment can be purchased for the fighters and that it's not a restriction that apply to what they can use.

However, house legacies are still as confusing as ever. It seems that the intent is to allow only the fighter with the legacy to use stuff that is purchased through the legacy, but how is it supposed to work within the framework of the rules? The only time you purchase stuff specifically for a fighter is when you hire said fighter, so one may think it's the only time legacies can be used. However, they also explicitly let the fighter purchase house-exclusive exotic beasts which are rare items from the trading post. I guess it could be combined with the ability of hunter leader/champs to get rare (11/10) items when hired, but in this case there would still be no way to get the Escher and Cawdor pets (as they are rare (12)), and you could only get the rare (11) Sumpkroc on your leader at gang creation (which incidentally is exactly the example they give in the rules). Assuming being that restrictive is not the intent, then it means that a fighter with house legacy can be used to purchase stuff and put it into the gang stash. Then what stops you from using one Escher-legacy girl to provide 5c lasguns to the whole gang? Or does the legacy let you ignore the rarity of pets?
Also, does having the corresponding house legacy in the gang reduce the rarity of, say, the Servo harness when visiting the TP? Or does it merely allow you to get one for your Van Saar champion/Goliath-Orlock leader when you hire them? Or not even that (which seems to be the RAW, since they only mention status items, but why?)
Finally, why is there no rule that states that house legacies can only be purchased when hiring new fighters? I mean, it seems obvious, but so did the Third arm rule for GSC and they still felt the need to explicitly state it was a recruitment-only upgrade. Then again, if legacies can only be used when the fighter is hired, this point is moot.

Also, the fluff now more explicitly describes venators with an house-legacy as ex-members of said house. But there is still no way for a Van Saar legacy venator to get the trademark (and life-sustaining) bodyglove.
 
Last edited:

Malo

YakTribe Mechanicum
Staff member
Yak Founder
Feb 17, 2011
5,302
6,327
233
46
York, PA, USA
yaktribe.games
Briefly going through Perils yesterday whilst @The Castle burned me some meats, one thing caught my attention as I was reading the Guild rules for their retinue gangs. It mentions that the sub-gang consists of 3-4 members. Each gang description lists the 3 types but it doesn't seem to indicate which ones include 1 or 2 Bodyguards. Some of the text refers to a singular or plural but I couldn't find a particular rule stating how many each guild type gets?
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
I added a bunch of questions (and a few answers) to the YAQ about tactics card (I only checked the generic gang tactics from the physical card packs for the moment, not the pdf ones, and that's still 27 questions out of 71 cards :confused:)

8.01 [Blood Debt] [Blast]
The Blood Debt tactics card let you add 1 to your hit roll for your fighters when they target a specific enemy fighter. How does it work with Blast weapons?
With Blast weapons, you only get the +1 to hit bonus if the attack directly targets the enemy fighter (i.e. the Blast marker is centered on them).

8.02 [Lucky Find] [Scarce] [Limited] [Single Shot] [Grenade]
Can the Lucky Find tactics card let you reload a profile with the Scarce trait? What about the Limited, Grenade and Single Shot traits?
[TODO] Answer

8.03 [Last Gasp] [Coup de grâce]
If the Last Gasp tactics card is played on a fighter who has been taken Out of Action with a Coup de grâce, do they make a close combat attack or a ranged attack (they weren't Engaged since they were Seriously injured). Does it depend on whether the enemy fighter is in base contact with them?
[TODO] Answer

8.04 [Last Gasp] [You're coming with me] [Versatile]
How does the Last Gasp and You're coming with me tactics card interact with Versatile? If the fighter is taken Out of action by a close combat attack from a fighter they are not in base to base contact with, can they make a ranged attack with Last Gasp (or a Versatile close combat attack with You're coming with me)? Conversely, if a fighter is taken Out of action by a ranged attack and they carry a Versatile weapon, can they make a close combat attack with Last Gasp (assuming they are in range)?
[TODO] Answer

8.05 [Last Gasp] [Grenade]
If an Engaged fighter goes Out of action and you play the Last Gasp tactic cards on them, can they choose to use a Grenade instead of making a Close combat attack? There is a special rule that let them center the Blast on themself which would be a bit pointless if it weren't allowed, but Grenade are ranged weapons and Last Gasp only allows for Close combat attacks if the fighter is Engaged… Also, if a fighter uses a Grenade this way, should the Blast attack be resolved against them? (potentially modifying the number of Lasting injuries they get if the Blast takes them out since its characteristics would be used instead of the ones from the attack that originally took the fighter Out of action).
[TODO] Answer

8.06 [Last Gasp] [You're coming with me] [Close Combat Attack]
If an Engaged fighter goes Out of action and you play the Last Gasp or You're coming with me tactic cards to have them make "a close combat attack", is this a full close combat attack (as if they were making a Fight action), or do you roll only one attack dice?
[TODO] Answer

8.07 [Ricochet] [Rapid Fire]
The Ricochet tactics card instructs you to "roll to hit against [the new target]", that may or may not be visible to the attacker. How should the range be measured or cover be determined against the new target (especially when the attacker can't see them)? Since the Firepower dice is not rerolled, how does it work for Rapid fire weapons?
[TODO] Answer

8.08 [Just add nails] [Grenade Launcher]
Can the Just add nails tactics card be used to enhance a Frag grenade fired from a Grenade launcher, or is its effects limited to the hand-thrown variant?
[TODO] Answer

8.09 [Suppressing fire] [Blast]
Can the Suppressing fire tactics card be used with Blast weapons? If so, how does it work?
[TODO] Answer

8.10 [Trusty Backup]
Can the Trusty Backup tactics card be used on a fighter who is already carrying 3 weapons? (or 5, if they are a bounty hunter)
Yes.

8.11 [Battle Madness]
If the resolution of the battle Madness tactics card requires choices to be made (for instance, if the fighter carries several ranged weapons, or is in base to base contact with several fighters), who makes them? Also, if the fighter is in base to base contact with a fighter who is not in their field of view but they can see a more distant fighter, do they automatically turn to face the closest fighter, or do they shoot the distant one?
[TODO] Answer

8.12 [Battle Madness] [Blast] [Template]
How does the Battle Madness tactics card interact with Blast and Template weapons?
The attack is resolved with the Blast marker/Flame template centered on the closest visible fighter.

8.13 [Battle Madness] [Versatile]
If the Battle Madness tactics card is played on a fighter who carries a Versatile weapon, can it be used to make close combat attacks against fighters they are not in base to base contact with?
Yes.

8.14 [Chain Attack]
The Chain Attack tactics card lets a fighter move up to 6" and make a Fight action. Can the move be used to get within 1" of an enemy fighter? Can it be used to disengage an enemy fighter (assuming the fighter was engaged to several enemy fighters prior to taking one of them Out of action)?
[TODO] Answer

8.15 [Crossfire]
The Crossfire tactics card can only be used if two fighters from the same gang shoot at the same target, however, it doesn't specify whether those two ranged attacks must take place during the same turn, the same round, or just the same game. Which one is it?
The two range attacks must take place during the same round.

8.16 [You're coming with me]
The You're coming with me tactics card can only be played when a fighter is taken Out of action by a close combat attack. Does it also work if the fighter becomes Seriously injured in close combat and is then Coup-de-grâced?
Yes.

8.17 [Fire discipline] [Template] [Grenade]
How does the Fire discipline tactics card interact with Template weapons? (no hit roll is made for them, so do they never make any Ammo check?) How does it interact with Grenades?
Fire discipline has no effect on Template weapons and Grenades.

8.18 [Point-blank Shot] [Sidearm]
Should the Point-blank Shot tactics card be updated to temporarily grant the Sidearm trait to the weapon?
Yes.

8.19 [They're everywhere]
When the They're everywhere tactics card is played, shouldn't only the Active enemy fighter make a Cool check? The way it's written, Engaged, Pinned and Seriously Injured enemy fighters also check, which is either pointless (for Engaged and Pinned fighters) or beneficial (for Seriously Injured fighters).
Yes, only Active enemy fighters should make the Cool check.

8.20 [Double-fisted] [Blast] [Template]
How does the Double fisted tactics card interact with Blast and/or Template weapons? (it states that both attacks must be made against the same target, but Blast weapons can target things other weapons can't, and Template weapons don't target at all.
It depends on what combination of weapons is used:
  • if a Blast weapon is used alongside a regular weapon, the target must be a fighter
  • if two Blast weapons are used, you can choose to target a point on the tabletop instead of a fighter
  • if a Template weapon is used alongside a Blast or regular weapon, the target must be "in range" for the template to reach (about 8.5") and the template must be centered on the target
  • if two Template weapons are used, the template must be placed the same way for both
8.21 [Combat drugs]
How long does the bonus from the Combat drugs tactics card last? If, for whatever reason (the Rain of blows skill, or being activated twice with Overseer for instance), the fighter can make several Fight actions during the turn, do they all benefit from the bonus?
Yes, it lasts the whole turn.

8.22 [Dangerous footing]
When a fighter survives the Dangerous footing tactics card, they are forced to make a Move action. Is this action free or does it count towards the two actions a fighter can make in a turn?
[TODO] Answer

8.23 [Seize the Initiative]
What happens if several players play the Seize the Initiative tactics card during the same round?
The cards are discarded and have no effect.

8.24 [Snap Fire] [Template]
How does the Snap fire tactics card work exactly? Can every fighter benefit from it as long as they are Ready, regardless of status? What does "take a shot" mean? Does the enemy fighter have to be in the fighter's field of view? If a template weapon is used (Handflamer for instance), how does it work?
Only Active and Pinned fighters can be used for this card's effect. If the fighter is Active, the shot is resolved as a Shoot action (the enemy fighter must be in their field of view), and a Blind Fire action if they are Pinned. If a Template weapon is used, the enemy fighter must be within range of this weapon (less than 8.5" away, give or take) and the template must be centered on them.

8.25 [Forward Planning] [Opening Volley] [Infiltrate]
Can fighters with the Infiltrate skill be chosen to make actions with the Forward Planning or Opening Volley tactics cards?
No, those cards must be played before infiltrators are deployed.

8.26 [Wrong Again...] [Blast] [Template]
Can the Wrong again… tactics card be used against Blast or Template weapons?
Wrong again… can't be used against Template weapons. It can only be used against Blast weapons if the target of the attack was a fighter and the hit roll was a success.

8.27 [History of Violence] [Pre-battle sequence]
How can the History of Violence tactics card even be played? Players don't draw tactics card before step 7 of the Pre-battle sequence, but this card states it can only be played during step 5...
Ignore the timing printed on the card and play it during step 7.

As usual, don't hesitate to discuss the answers
 
  • Like
Reactions: Malo

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
638
703
98
Bristol, UK
8.02: I had always assumed it does work with Scarce weapons, which just felt 'right' to me. It also stops Click! from being quite as powerful, as Lucky Find acts as almost a direct counter to it.
But checking, the rules for Scarce states "once they run out of ammo, they cannot be used again during the battle". Which seems pretty obvious that Lucky Find cannot be used on them.
Pretty much the same wording for Single Shot "This weapon can only be used once per game", Limited "that ammo type is deleted from the Fighter card, and cannot be used again until more of that special ammo is purchased", and Grenade "... and cannot use them for the remainder of the battle".
Personally, I'd go for RAI it works on Scare weapons but not the rest. Grenade is a grey area that I would accept either way.

8.03: Last Gasp states "play this card when one of your active fighters is taken Out of Action". Seriously injured fighters aren't active so it's a moot point, you can't use it on a seriously injured fighter.
But then again, Engaged fighters aren't active either, making the whole close combat part redundant. I think RAI it's Active or Engaged fighter, which would still make the point about Seriously Injured fighters moot.

8.04: This is definitely a weird one. Versatile sort of leaves the fighter in a weird limbo of Engaged but not, and particularly You're Coming With Me clearly wasn't written with Versatile in mind.
I would probably be inclined to say that in both cases the card could only be used if the fighter also has a versatile weapon, and that it would be an attack with said weapon(s). Like a regular melee sequence with a Versatile attacker. But I could also see the argument that you're allowed to shoot if using Last Gasp.

8.05: The attack is resolved before the fighter is removed, so I would say that yes the attack hits the fighter.
I think it's pretty clear that you can't use a grenade in close combat. I know it makes dropping a grenade at your feet a niche case for when you're surrounded by close enemies, but eh.
I like dropping a smoke grenade at my feet ninja style :p Cover the angry champion that arrives to avenge them.

8.06: TBH you could almost flip a coin to determine what the devs mean any time they mention "close combat attack".
I lean towards a compete combat round (or whatever term we want to use), simply because that feels more equivalent to using it as a ranged option.

8.07: I think as far as the Firepower dice is concerned, I feel it's pretty obvious and logical that you simply keep the old result of the Firepower dice. (maybe I'm missing something, but I don't actually see anything in the shooting sequence telling you when to roll the Firepower dice, only that one must still be rolled if the shot is out of range.)
As for cover, I think it's definitely full cover if they're out of LoS, full cover is defined as less than half of the fighter visible. That's also fairly logical, in as far as deliberately bouncing a shot off of a wall to hit an unseen target is.
For range, I would probably be inclined to say you recheck the range to the target (effectively beginning the shooting sequence from scratch), although RAW the card seems to tell you to skip check range go to "make the hit roll". But then that leaves what you're supposed to do about range completely unanswered.

8.08: I would argue that a Grenade Launcher with Frag Grenades is not the same as Frag Grenades, and that this card references the hand thrown versions.
But then a strong argument, but from RAW and 'logic' for it to apply to the Launcher as well.

8.09: I would say that yes, it can be used. Although obviously it would only have an effect if the weapon targeted a fighter, rather than a point.

8.11: I would say the player using the card makes those decisions. Since you're picking the fighter. But you could argue for randomisation, but imo the less unnecessary dice rolled the better, saves time if nothing else.
I think they would turn to face, it's step 1 of making a close combat attack(s).

8.13: The Versatile rules does state "During their activation...", so I would quibble whether or not it's possible to use Versatile in this situation.

8.14: I think Chain Attack as a card only works if it is possible to move into base contact with another fighter. I know the rules ATM are pretty clear that you can't, but this card was written when you could, and I see no reason why the intention of the card should change (especially to the point of rendering it entirely redundant).
I also see no reason why the card wouldn't allow you to 'disengage' from other fighters, that's an interesting use of the card I hadn't considered.

8.16: A Coup De Grace (Simple) action isn't a close combat attack, so again I would quibble whether or this is possible. It also avoids the question of how a seriously injured fighter attacks.

8.22: I think it's one of their two actions, as it isn't stated to be free and it is during their activation. One of the reasons many people dislike this card.
One question is how does this work with Engaged, Pinned, or Seriously Injured fighters that can't take move actions?
Overall I think this card is best simply banned, or changed to placing the Pit Fall anywhere *not* under a fighter, cuts most of the bullshit. Still remains kinda bullshit though as you can easily block a corridor, but hey.

8.23: I agree, same for Toll Crossing and similar.

I always take way longer to write these out than I think I will :/
Either way that's my 2 pence. It's interesting as you pick up issues that I hadn't even noticed, often simply "assuming" things that aren't in the book, or even directly contradicted by a careful reading.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ben_S and Thorgor

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
Thanks for your thoughts!

8.02: I had always assumed it does work with Scarce weapons, which just felt 'right' to me. It also stops Click! from being quite as powerful, as Lucky Find acts as almost a direct counter to it.
But checking, the rules for Scarce states "once they run out of ammo, they cannot be used again during the battle". Which seems pretty obvious that Lucky Find cannot be used on them.
Pretty much the same wording for Single Shot "This weapon can only be used once per game", Limited "that ammo type is deleted from the Fighter card, and cannot be used again until more of that special ammo is purchased", and Grenade "... and cannot use them for the remainder of the battle".
Personally, I'd go for RAI it works on Scare weapons but not the rest. Grenade is a grey area that I would accept either way.
I also think it should work for Scarce. The Ammo cache rules (RB p122) sets a present for being able to reload Scarce weapons (even though Scarce states it can't happen).
Limited profiles are gone once they run OoA so I think it's pretty clear that they cannot be reloaded (since they don't exist anymore)
For Grenade and Single use, I could see it go either way, but since Ammo caches can't be used to reload them, I'd lean towards the "no" for the sake of consistency.

8.03: Last Gasp states "play this card when one of your active fighters is taken Out of Action". Seriously injured fighters aren't active so it's a moot point, you can't use it on a seriously injured fighter.
But then again, Engaged fighters aren't active either, making the whole close combat part redundant. I think RAI it's Active or Engaged fighter, which would still make the point about Seriously Injured fighters moot.
I didn't notice the card said "Active", but as you noticed that make the card non-functional since Active and Engaged are mutually exclusive (unless we assume they meant "Standing"). I think the case of a fighter being Seriously injured in CC and then coup-de-grâced is still worth considering though, as I don't really see a reason to treat it differently from a fighter being directly killed in CC (same reasoning as for question 2.02), but I agree the point is moot in other cases. I'll need to rework or remove this question.

8.04: This is definitely a weird one. Versatile sort of leaves the fighter in a weird limbo of Engaged but not, and particularly You're Coming With Me clearly wasn't written with Versatile in mind.
I would probably be inclined to say that in both cases the card could only be used if the fighter also has a versatile weapon, and that it would be an attack with said weapon(s). Like a regular melee sequence with a Versatile attacker. But I could also see the argument that you're allowed to shoot if using Last Gasp.
Yeah, when the card was written Versatile still used ranged attacks, so we have to try and guess how it works with the new and improved Versatile. I think Last Gasp should simply let you make either a free Fight or free Shoot action (forcing Fight if the fighter is in b2b with an enemy fighter).

8.05: The attack is resolved before the fighter is removed, so I would say that yes the attack hits the fighter.
I think it's pretty clear that you can't use a grenade in close combat. I know it makes dropping a grenade at your feet a niche case for when you're surrounded by close enemies, but eh.
I like dropping a smoke grenade at my feet ninja style :p Cover the angry champion that arrives to avenge them.
Here I have to disagree. I really can't imagine they wrote a specific rule for allowing the fighter to blow themself up and only let you use it in extremely niche cases. Obviously, the had The Professional/Aliens/Predator in mind when they wrote this. I also doubt that the RAI is for you to resolve the Blast attack against the soon-to-be-dead fighter, as it would be a waste of time most of the time, and I honestly don't trust the writer to think about it. Plus, blowing yourself up with a D1 weapon to avoid having to roll multiple times on the Lasting injury table is kind of a dick move.

8.06: TBH you could almost flip a coin to determine what the devs mean any time they mention "close combat attack".
I lean towards a compete combat round (or whatever term we want to use), simply because that feels more equivalent to using it as a ranged option.
I agree. The soon-to-be-dead fighter gets one free action, whether the Shoot or they Fight. Way simpler than any alternative.

8.07: I think as far as the Firepower dice is concerned, I feel it's pretty obvious and logical that you simply keep the old result of the Firepower dice. (maybe I'm missing something, but I don't actually see anything in the shooting sequence telling you when to roll the Firepower dice, only that one must still be rolled if the shot is out of range.)
As for cover, I think it's definitely full cover if they're out of LoS, full cover is defined as less than half of the fighter visible. That's also fairly logical, in as far as deliberately bouncing a shot off of a wall to hit an unseen target is.
For range, I would probably be inclined to say you recheck the range to the target (effectively beginning the shooting sequence from scratch), although RAW the card seems to tell you to skip check range go to "make the hit roll". But then that leaves what you're supposed to do about range completely unanswered.
When we debated this one earlier, some people argued that only one hit should Ricochet regardless of the FP dice result, as ricocheting a whole burst seems really implausible. As for the rest, I really have no idea what we are supposed to do. Something about range I forgot to write in the question: since the new target can be anywhere within 5" of the original one, it may also be out of range. At this point, I'm tempted to completely ignore the text from the card and just apply the Stray shot rule (hit on 4+)

8.08: I would argue that a Grenade Launcher with Frag Grenades is not the same as Frag Grenades, and that this card references the hand thrown versions.
But then a strong argument, but from RAW and 'logic' for it to apply to the Launcher as well.
I also think it should only apply to the hand-thrown version. I'm not sure you can "add nails" to a grenade-launcher grenade.

8.11: I would say the player using the card makes those decisions. Since you're picking the fighter. But you could argue for randomisation, but imo the less unnecessary dice rolled the better, saves time if nothing else.
I think they would turn to face, it's step 1 of making a close combat attack(s).
I agree with the first part. A least I think we can rule out the affected player making the decisions.
I misread the card and thought the fighter would only attack targets they can see, but that only applies to the ranged attack. So yeah, you are correct, they'll turn to face if they are in b2b contact with someone.

8.13: The Versatile rules does state "During their activation...", so I would quibble whether or not it's possible to use Versatile in this situation.
Versatile can also be used when making Reaction attacks, so the "only during their activation" rule is not really absolute.

8.14: I think Chain Attack as a card only works if it is possible to move into base contact with another fighter. I know the rules ATM are pretty clear that you can't, but this card was written when you could, and I see no reason why the intention of the card should change (especially to the point of rendering it entirely redundant).
I also see no reason why the card wouldn't allow you to 'disengage' from other fighters, that's an interesting use of the card I hadn't considered.
The rule for not being able to move within 1" of a Standing enemy fighter unless explicitly allowed to didn't change (what changed is that they "removed" it from Consolidate). I agree that Chain attack should allow it (otherwise it's pointless).
The reason I'm not sure it can be used to disengage from other fighters is that a retreat is normally associated with a risk for a Reaction attack. But considering how situational this is, it's probably not an issue.

8.22: I think it's one of their two actions, as it isn't stated to be free and it is during their activation. One of the reasons many people dislike this card.
One question is how does this work with Engaged, Pinned, or Seriously Injured fighters that can't take move actions?
Overall I think this card is best simply banned, or changed to placing the Pit Fall anywhere *not* under a fighter, cuts most of the bullshit. Still remains kinda bullshit though as you can easily block a corridor, but hey.
Yeah, this card is OP. I think you're right and the Move is not free but that just makes it even more stupidly unfair.
Very good point for the non-Active fighters, I didn't think about it. I wonder how Seriously injured fighters are supposed to avoid the pitfall, as they are in no condition to do anything but slowly crawl.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ben_S

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
638
703
98
Bristol, UK
8.05: I don't interpret blowing yourself up with a 1D weapon as replacing the injury you've already suffered. I would think you rolled for that injury on top of those from the initial attack.
I can see the thematic justification of dropping a grenade in melee, but I think the card is functional as-is (and the grenade thing is a niche case anyway), and the scope of this YAQ is less houseruling and more discrepancy removal.

8.07: simply making it a regular stray shot check is simple and fixes most of its issues.
Although it has the same issues as normal stray shots, in that you can be more likely randomly hit a bystander than by attempting to fire at them directly.
But that's the rules, the YAQ isn't meant to rewrite them.

8.14: the drawback of using it to disengage is that you need to get a kill (not easy when you're being tag-teamed), and have to use a tactics card for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kairae and Thorgor

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
8.05: I don't interpret blowing yourself up with a 1D weapon as replacing the injury you've already suffered. I would think you rolled for that injury on top of those from the initial attack.
How would that work? A fighter can only be taken OoA once, and they only make injury rolls for the one attack that took them out of action. If the grenade takes them OoA, then the original attack doesn't.
It's kinda the same debate as when a fighter is over-killed in CC, except here it's clear the two events are not simultaneous (though I've argued that CC attacks are also necessarily resolved in sequence)

I can see the thematic justification of dropping a grenade in melee, but I think the card is functional as-is (and the grenade thing is a niche case anyway), and the scope of this YAQ is less houseruling and more discrepancy removal.
The YAQ is about making an educated guess as to what the RAI is (or, in the case of tactics card, how they would be re-written for N18 by a competent writer). Since the RAW for tactics card is particularly bad (even by N17 standards), I'd rather try to understand the writer's thought process. I've a hard time believing they added this rule just for the few cases where the fighter is taken OoA by a ranged attack while not engaged and there are enemy fighters within 2.5". It's easier for me to believe that they meant for it to be used in CC and botched the wording.

8.07: simply making it a regular stray shot check is simple and fixes most of its issues.
Although it has the same issues as normal stray shots, in that you can be more likely randomly hit a bystander than by attempting to fire at them directly.
But that's the rules, the YAQ isn't meant to rewrite them.
Here I agree that what I proposed is clearly an house-rule. However, the RAW makes no sense and I've no idea what the RAI is. How are we supposed to make a hit roll against a target that is both invisible and out of range?
Well, I lied, I have quite a few ideas as to what the RAI may be, but none I'm completely satisfied with:
  1. since modifiers can't be determined, roll with the attacker's unmodified BS
  2. treat out of sight as hard cover and out of range as long range (side-effect: for sniper weapons, you get a bonus against out-of-range targets)
  3. when a modifier cannot be determined, use the worst one available (about the same as #2 but sniper weapons would use their short range accuracy bonus)
  4. range and cover are determined from the point of view of the original target, not the attacker
Maybe #3 would work...
Also I wonder if the new range should be measured in a straight line (going around walls as usual if the target isn't visible) or an L-shape (with the original target at the corner) as it can make a difference between long and short range in some cases (for accuracy bonus and Melta)
I guess one of my issues with this card is I'm not sure of its fluff: is it supposed to represent the attacker voluntarily missing its original target in order to hit the other one Robocop-style, or is it just a lucky but completely random ricochet?

8.14: the drawback of using it to disengage is that you need to get a kill (not easy when you're being tag-teamed), and have to use a tactics card for it.
Yeah, I get that, and as I said it's such a corner case that it doesn't really matter. It just a bit strange that a tactics card can give you what amounts to a free Retreat action without the usually associated risk. When they give you a free Fight action equivalent, the enemy fighter gets to make Reaction attacks if they survived, so I see a small lack of consistency here. It looks like an oversight more than a feature as using the card to safely retreat is clearly not the intended use and would qualify as a "bug exploit" to me. But again, I'm okay with it as it's reaaaally far from game-breaking, I just think it's worth addressing in the YAQ.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
I updated the YAQ to add answers to most questions from section 8 and reworked some of them (Some may have changed number as I fused/deleted/rewrote them).

Stuff that I've left unanswered for the moment:
  • the grenade with Last Gasp thingy
  • whether or not the fighter can be taken OoA during the resolution of Last Gasp and how it may affect their Lasting injury rolls (which can also happen if the enemy fighter is allowed reaction attacks)
  • the whole Ricochet conundrum
I'm gonna work on the house cards now (but if anyone wants to chime in on the above points (or anything else from the YAQ, there are still a bunch of unanswered questions in the other sections), they are of course welcome).
 
Last edited:

Petitioner's City

Gang Hero
Nov 15, 2017
519
984
133
Edinburgh, UK
However, house legacies are still as confusing as ever. It seems that the intent is to allow only the fighter with the legacy to use stuff that is purchased through the legacy, but how is it supposed to work within the framework of the rules? The only time you purchase stuff specifically for a fighter is when you hire said fighter, so one may think it's the only time legacies can be used.
Wait, I need to check something here; hwl are only used when recruiting a fighter? Not when buying things between games? That's news to me, although a fascinating balancing mechanic...
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
638
703
98
Bristol, UK
Between games a gang can buy from either their weapon lost or the trading post, adding the item to the stash before distributing it to fighters.

This largely defeats the point of house weapon lists, as you can (for example) have one guy with the Van Saar legacy and buy energy shields for your entire gang.
Or a Goliath Legacy to buy a bunch of discounted grenade launchers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Petitioner's City

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
Wait, I need to check something here; hwl are only used when recruiting a fighter? Not when buying things between games? That's news to me, although a fascinating balancing mechanic...
HWL are used both when recruiting a fighter and when purchasing stuff in-between games. The trading post is only used in-between games.

However, that was not my point. My point is that you only ever purchase stuff for a specific fighter when recruiting that fighter. Everything else you purchase during the post-battle sequence first goes to the stash and then can be distributed among the gang's fighters (including new recruits). That's a meaningless distinction for all gangs but Venators because of their house legacy mechanism.
Since a house legacy is tied to a specific fighter, the intent seems to be that you can only use it when buying stuff for that fighter which means one of two things:
  1. the house legacy can only be used when recruiting the fighter
  2. you have to somehow track which items have been purchased using which house legacy
Oh, and now that I think of it, it's even more fun. HWL also sometimes have discounted wargear, and wargear can go from a fighter to the stash. Wait... weapons can also go from a fighter to the stash when the fighter dies or leaves the gang! Ha ha ha... :confused:
 

Graphite

New Member
Nov 19, 2015
8
5
23
One of the basic Venator Hunter profiles looks like it has a typo. The M4 T4 (beastman) profile has BS 4+ and WS 3+, but the Champion equivalent is BS 5+ WS 3+

This means that a higher level beastman would be worse at shooting than lower level. Surely the basic level profile should also be BS 5+ WS 3+
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,955
9,012
138
35
Sevres 92130 France
It's not the only incongruity like that. Escher leaders are also dumber than Escher champions for some reason.
They have been consistent with those from the start (Venator profiles were the same in the WD article) so we have to assume they are not typos (though they could be copy-pasted typos). Let's say the leader/champ is more "specialized" than the hunter.