N18 Compendium YAQ (N18)
- Thread starter Stoof
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I would agree with that. Versatile weapons got interesting all of a sudden
Opponents can't retaliate either, unless they have a versatile weapon too
So, they get no reaction attacks, but can charge if they have an activation before Versatile stabs again, I take it. Seems like a decent upgrading.
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Yeah, since you can opt to be Engaged to anyone in weapon range and Charge gives you a free Fight action if you are Engaged at the end of your move it practically add 2"/3" (depending on weapon) to your threat radius.
Note that being able to make reaction attacks with Versatile weapons is an implicit exception to the last rule (the one that says Versatile does nothing outside of the wielder's activation)
I wonder how Versatile is supposed to work with dual-wielding. You should be able to dual-wield one-handed Versatile weapons, but what about using a Sidearm? RAW, it seems you could even use a regular Melee weapon, since you are considered Engaged.
Note that being able to make reaction attacks with Versatile weapons is an implicit exception to the last rule (the one that says Versatile does nothing outside of the wielder's activation)
I wonder how Versatile is supposed to work with dual-wielding. You should be able to dual-wield one-handed Versatile weapons, but what about using a Sidearm? RAW, it seems you could even use a regular Melee weapon, since you are considered Engaged.
So, we have it from the designers now that they have a mighty formula that they strictly adhere to, and that even when reality proves it stupid...
Well, that is clearifying.
Ehhh, too sumpy?
So to balance, it sonds like N18 is a quantum leap in the right direction. Just can not get my books soon enough, so I can start looking at what's to do with campaigns.
Well, that is clearifying.
Ehhh, too sumpy?
So to balance, it sonds like N18 is a quantum leap in the right direction. Just can not get my books soon enough, so I can start looking at what's to do with campaigns.
I remember a little game called Rogue Trader which started with a strict and detailed points formula only to abandon it later for values that closer reflected effectiveness.
(Which is not to say that later 40k points values always made the most sense, just that I'd thought GW already learned this lesson.)
I re-read the rules and technically you are right, nowhere does it say that your attacks have to be made with the Versatile weapon for this to be in effect. However, if you want to stay friends with your opponent you probably should just attack with your versatile weapon only.
Probably why Cawdor polearms are Unwieldy too. You could use this with digi lasers, las cutters, shock whips, shock batons, etc. though
Sidearms should be fine, I'd argue you just treat it as a regular melee-shot
The extra inch or two doesn't alter the situation that much, you're still hipfiring or jerking of a shot in close combat.
So I can reach out and touch someone really far away with my club because I have a whip in my other hand?
As correct and amusing as that might sound, I would not make many friends if I insisted on playing like that
Kinda strange though to have a Pistol that can be shot from 2" away, or used in close combat, but cannot be used in close combat from 2" away.I re-read the rules and technically you are right, nowhere does it say that your attacks have to be made with the Versatile weapon for this to be in effect. However, if you want to stay friends with your opponent you probably should just attack with your versatile weapon only.
I agree that using Melee weapons this way is not intended, but I wonder if Sidearm should work.
About Unwieldy, it's unclear to me if the "this weapon takes 2 slots" rule is still tied to Unwieldy or not. Some weapons are asterisked without having Unwieldy (Krumper and Harpoon launcher) but the rules for Hired-guns (GotU p61) still use the trait to determine the number of slots it takes, and there is also a reference to this in the Bulging Biceps rules (GotU p146). So, how many Harpoon launchers can a Bounty Hunter carry?
Edit: ok, they can only carry one because it costs 110c and they have a 150c limit...
Well, obviously you use the whip to drag the poor chap close to you (don't forget to yell "GET OVER HERE!") and then you use the club to send them flying back to their original positionSo I can reach out and touch someone really far away with my club because I have a whip in my other hand?
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I find those rules for versatile very unclear, there are lot of questions. So what happens to a ganger with a versatile weapon if the enemy survives the attack and does not move? Is the ganger in his next turn/activation still engaged or does he have to charge again . Or all those other questions discussed here.
And another question with those cawdor polearms. They get -1 to hit. When does this happen? Only when they are enganged in btb or when they use the new versatile rule to attack from "range" too?
And another question with those cawdor polearms. They get -1 to hit. When does this happen? Only when they are enganged in btb or when they use the new versatile rule to attack from "range" too?
I think you can choose whether he is Engaged or not. Engaging an enemy fighter using the Versatile trait seems to be optional.
They only have -1 to hit at short range and their short range is 'E'. So (even though the fighter is considered Engaged when using Versatile), I think the intent is to have this modifier only apply when the fighter is in base-to-base contact with the enemy fighter.
ok now you're being silly! It's obvious the intent is for the Versatile weapon only. The concept of Sidearms as Versatile aside, it doesn't even make sense.
The -1 is for Engaged. Yes I know that technically Versatile makes you engaged but that L range for 2" doesn't have the -1 that it's that 2" range that Versatile applies to. So no, you wouldn't get the -1 at Versatile range. That's how polearms work, they're clumsy up close being such a long reaching weapon, they're meant to be used further away from the opponent.
Exactly, the RAW don't make sense.
The Sidearm problem is trickier imo. If we allow them to be used alongside Versatile to make CC attacks at range, then it means they can also be used for Reaction attacks against versatile weapons. And if you can use Versatile+Sidearm for reaction attacks, then you should also be able to use Sidearms alone. Not sure we want to go down that rabbit hole.
I don't think so either. The concept should be shelved for now since we just got these new rules and the focus is on nailing down what we currently have.
This is probably more appropriate for an "If I'd written N18, I would have..." thread, but I think Engaged and Versatile and Charging will perennially require some YAQing, because they're just clunky mechanics. Engaged should not be the requirement for using a melee weapon; that should solely be the weapon's range. Engaged should be a concept that means only that two figures are base to base and therefore have fewer possible actions to choose from when activating. But that's what ought to be, not what is.
An additional question on this topic that needs FAQing or YAQing is this: Must a fighter move into base contact when he is charging and able to make it into base contact but doesn't want to? For example, a Cawdor fighter armed with a polearm that is better at range than B2B is 6" away from the target of his charge. Rolls a 1 on the D3, with total charge movement of 6". Can he stop short at 4", or must he move into B2B contact simply because he can?
As written, you must move your full charge distance, but for a Versatile weapon I'm not sure that's RAI.
An additional question on this topic that needs FAQing or YAQing is this: Must a fighter move into base contact when he is charging and able to make it into base contact but doesn't want to? For example, a Cawdor fighter armed with a polearm that is better at range than B2B is 6" away from the target of his charge. Rolls a 1 on the D3, with total charge movement of 6". Can he stop short at 4", or must he move into B2B contact simply because he can?
As written, you must move your full charge distance, but for a Versatile weapon I'm not sure that's RAI.
Pretty sure this was mentioned on the preview and it was stated that you could choose not to charge your full distance, makes more sense that way in my head aswell,why would someone deliberately put themselves at a disadvantage by getting too close when they'd got enough of a drop on their enemy to charge them
Why does a giant krak bolt have a better chance to make a crossbow 'jam' that a giant frag bolt?
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