N18 Corpse Grinders Cult speculation/discussion

[SumpRat]

Here is a nice review/unboxing video by GMG of the Dark uprising boxset:

In particular in the later half of the video he goes trought the Rulebook from the boxset and reads out some snippets of the Dark uprising campaign we did not hear before (such as Scavenging, Starvation and Festering injuries = Mutations instead of of the normal Lasting injuries).
Another detail I found interesting is that he confirms Initiates have NO WEAPON RESTRICTIONS (meaning you could start them with Flamers if you wanted/converted them appropriately or could arm them with any basic/special/heavy gun you got your hands on).

So I’ll be throwing a harpoon launcher on one then!

 

[Ml2sjw]

I really like the way this gang is shaping up. You have a skirmish line of intiates providing harnessing fire, with pistols grenades and flamers / the harpoon gun. Whilst your heavy hitters approach before a big charge. I can't think of a gang that remotely plays like this at the moment.

 

[Baffo]

Another detail from the review about CGC I forgot to mention is that Skinners (the supposed 40 creds ganger equivalent) are all Specialists (meaning they all spend XPs like champ/leader rather than rolling for random advancements like normal gangers).

GW seems to just get worse and worse at balancing.
In what world are they 25cr?

I assume that is mainly based on the fact CGC are (probably) not supposed to have any access to Trading posts/Black market (Dark uprising campaign has no Trading whatsoever and Scavenging can only produce items from your HWL anyway) so their Gun options are limited to Pistols, Flamers and a Harpoon launcher without suspensors.
That said I have to agree that the Devs seem to have thrown the 'costing table' they supposedly used for normal gangs out of the window, when designing CGC and also their melee weapons (some of which seems way too cheap considering many have Ap-1/-2 and D2, especially if you remember their argument for making D2 maces +1Ap to 'balance them out without costing them too high') and I feel like they mislabelled the Initiates and Skinners; Initiates have te stats and equipment of normal gangers from any other gang for hal the cost, while the Skinners are effectively champion level fighters when compared to other gangs (only thing they are missing is the 2W, but otherwise they start with Berserker skill (+ effectively the Fearsome skill from mask), Ws3+, Armor 4+ in the front for less credits than 'horde gangs' (like Cawdor) basic gangers...
Obviously we have to wait just one more week to get our hands on the official Book of Ruin and check in detail all their rules and possibly unknown limitations not yet revealed, but given what we know up to now, I guess this new gang actually needs to be 'barred' from the Trading post/Black market, simply because they have too much 'point efficiency' built in both their Initiates and Skinners (and they have a pretty solid HWL anyway, since they have ready access to Armored Undersuits, Stimms and some of the best CC weapons in game) - Chems, Ablative overlays and other equipment might take them totally over the top.

 

[Ml2sjw]

They need to be massively powerful in close combat. When the gang was announced everyone was posting that they don't have a chance. The key to close combat in N18 for me has always been getting into combat before being shot to death. It was always deadly when you got there.

Also unless I have missed it there is no way to ignore pinning built into the list

 

[Baffo]

They need to be massively powerful in close combat. When the gang was announced everyone was posting that they don't have a chance. The key to close combat in N18 for me has always been getting into combat before being shot to death. It was always deadly when you got there.

Also unless I have missed it there is no way to ignore pinning built into the list

No, there is no in-built anti-pinning in their gang rules (as far as we know) and for them Ferocity is a Secondary (so you can get Nerves of Steel only by spending 9 XPs to roll randomly on the skill table), however CGC Tactics cards have 2-3 cards that can negate Pinning from shooting or that grant a Free move+Fight when friendly models are shot or taken OoA (from the GMG review).
As for getting into combat before getting shot: the initiates can carry Smoke grenades (and can Infiltrate ahead of the meleers to create optimal Smoke screens), the masks for Leader and Champs have Terrifying (must pass a Will check when attempting to shoot/fight them and if failed end activation of the attacker) and they have access to several different 'Movement buffs' (First to the fray rule on leader, Slaughterborn Savagery skill, CG Cult icon's Enrage (Simple) action, Stimm slug stash in HWL and even the Overseer combo) to enable long charges around corners (which incidentally totally negates Got your 6 from Enforcers.
In short, CGC will certainly be a powerful gang

 

[Ml2sjw]

Astute as ever @Baffo ! I'm not disagreeing they have the potential to be a powerful gang but they are reliant on a lot of synergy and preplanning (a great thing in my book). They are no 4x combilasplasma vansaar gang or similar

 

[Thorgor]

25 credits for an average body (M5" T3 W1) with infiltrate that can take either a hand flamer or a flamer from the get go. And you can have as many as you want (can convert)? What are Skinners even for?

Everyone else has a buit-in anti-pinning mechanism as you need to pass a WP check to even target them (Blast can ignore that though).

I think CGC is what happens when you try too hard to make a CC gang viable.

 

[Ml2sjw]

Very possibly, I shall wait till I've played a few games with them, as well as seeing what you can build with a 1000 credit gang.

Also I the only person who finds the whole bypassing the mask rules by targeting the ground 0.01 inches ahead of the model cheesy in the extreme? I have often targeted baricades or open ground to catch multiple guys under the template but this seems a step to far to me

 

[sumpthing]

I agree, it's not really in the spirit of the game then again some time on the tabletop will tell all.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I agree, I dislike how blasts and templates ignore nearly all targeting rules. That said, apparently the Devs specifically mentioned this as a counter, which suggests that they've included it in the cost balancing (if there was any cost balancing...)

It seems that they've looked at all the possible ways to make melee viable, and given them all to the CGC.
- a way to overcome pinning (or even shooting entirely).
- very high boosted movement for long charges.
- a strong line of shooters to distract and kill the enemy while you close in.
- more bodies than the enemy has guns to shoot them.

If you're only playing on ZM, these guys will absolutely and totally dominate.
If you're spamming [hand] flamer equipped initiates, these guys will be cheesier than the Delaque doing the same. Which is already pretty cheesy.

 

[JayTee]

Blast weapons, and to a lesser extent template weapons, I feel are in need of a house rule to make them abide by the target priority rules. I'm giving that a go in my next campaign. There's a little bit of subtlety to avoid mandatory friendly-fire (Basically fighters engaged with friendly fighters are not eligible targets so you don't have to drop a frag grenade in your friends face) but having to pass a cool check to target an inch in front of a CGC's face at least gives you the option of a cool check or a Will(?) check to target them.

 

[Ml2sjw]

For me it's fairly easy you are targeting someone whenever you fire a weapon even if you are targeting ground to take advantage of your blast etc. So therefore normal targeting rules apply but you tweak exactly where you are putting the template but it must include the closest viable target. If you want to shoot someone other than the closest target then you need a cool check

 

[sumpthing]

I'm fine with people trying to walk templates around corners on the of chance that they scatter but deliberately aiming off a target in plain view is a bit too cheesy for me. Luckily I play with like minded players that play for fun not sheep stations

 

[Oakwolf]

This is really annoying...they don't even feel like they're really part of the same game and they look like such a stretch of the lore. I did buy the book, but there's no way in hell that i'll ever buy the CGC. We have enough house-ruling to do with the game already :S

 

[sumpthing]

Don't listen to the rumours, everything is fine, there is no cult uprising. Get back to work citizen.

*Locks down entire hive*

EDIT

I just wanted to add that corpse starch has been around in the lore for quite a while and has always been hinted at being recycled biomatter. Also the idea of cannibalism isn't new to necromunda either.... I personally think it's a great fit in the setting and really returns some of that juicy grimdark to the game.

I, for one, am preparing to embrace the Lord of Skin and Sinew!

The tenth (eleventh if you count venators) "faction" is a juicy one for sure!

 

[TopsyKretts]

They got some sweet close combat enabling tactics card limited to them only! My Goliaths would love to have access to those.

 

[macarfs]

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Do you think where it says Initiates must be equal to or higher than other Skinners they actually mean equal to or higher than other Fighters? Bit of a clunky wording if they genuinely mean skinners.

 

[Ml2sjw]

Do you think where it says Initiates must be equal to or higher than other Skinners they actually mean equal to or higher than other Fighters? Bit of a clunky wording if they genuinely mean skinners.

Hadn't spotted that and so the cycle of ambiguous wording leading people to pick wording that fits with their own preferences begins again..... (Not meant as a dig at you @macarfs ! )

I'm fairly certain they.mean Skinners only rather than rest of the gang but I am sure others will disagree

 

[macarfs]

Hadn't spotted that and so the cycle of ambiguous wording leading people to pick wording that fits with their own preferences begins again..... (Not meant as a dig at you @macarfs ! )

I'm fairly certain they.mean Skinners only rather than rest of the gang but I am sure others will disagree

Yup

If Skinners are supposed to be gangers and initiates juves you would have thought if it lined up with other gang rules it would be Skinners must be equal to or greater than other fighters.

In theory, RAW you can create a CGC gang with no gangers/skinners!

 

[Thorgor]

Well, I think what they actually wanted to write is that you should have at least one Skinner for each Initiate, as the other way around doesn't make much sense (Skinner being gangers and Initiative juves).
But admittedly, that would require them to pile on quite a few mistakes which is... actually very possible.

"other Skinners" is not ambiguous, it's just plain wrong, as Initiates are not Skinners themselves.