N18 Could you have?

[SmilingSkulls]

enforcers shotgun/ (vanilla) combat shotgun have identical stats, but a different name
enforcers boltgun/ (vanilla) boltgun have different ammostats next to their different names

There's 4 shotguns, I think. Shotgun, Sawn-off Shotgun, Enforcer Shotgun, Combat Shotgun.


Reading the weapon ammo stuff, I think, at least in the book of peril, it's pretty clear that shotgun ammunition is any type of shotgun and bolt ammuniton is any type of bolt weapon and so forth.

Book of peril
under shotgun ammunition says
"The following types of ammunition can be purchased for use in any shotgun, combat shotgun or sawn-off shotgun."

And then it lists the plant buster, phosphor and rad shells.

And then in the bolt ammunition, says
"The following types of ammunition can be purchased for use in any boltgun, bolt pistol, heavy bolter, or any combi-weapon that includes a bolt weapon component."

And then it lists the gunk bolts.

And you have the Auto weapon Ammuniton

"The following types of ammunition can be purchased for use in any autogun or autopistol (reclaimed or otherwise), a heavy stubber, or any combi-weapon that includes an auto-weapon component."​

 

[Beebopalulla]

Maybe? But the plasma gun is stupid hot to the point where it can kill space marines that are holding it....so I kinda question what you could "shield it" without melting your gunshroud. And then it's also pretty bright...

Plasma cannons example, but same general issue...even if they are quiet, not sure how it would be difficult to figure out who shot them...

One can imagine that somebody thought about that and build a custom gun shroud for plasma gun .

 

[SmilingSkulls]

One can imagine that somebody thought about that and build a custom gun shroud for plasma gun .

Does the wink mean you've already done it and have pictures?

 

[Beebopalulla]

Does the wink mean you've already done it and have pictures?

Nope but I think about it.

 

[TopsyKretts]

To be fair I find this rules very much non sensical. The only reason will be a strict adherence to the rules. So badzone enforcer will not care about regulations concerning amo or otherwise.

But you see the balancing issue? By having a better ammo, you also improve all additional ammo you buy for it. Effectively at a discount, since normal boltguns get the same ammo for the same price.

 

[Beebopalulla]

But you see the balancing issue? By having a better ammo, you also improve all additional ammo you buy for it. Effectively at a discount, since normal boltguns get the same ammo for the same price.

Yes I do see it. I m thinking that if you use a non standard amo an enforcer bolt gun should have degraded amo check to 5+ or 6+. But that will be house rule.

 

[Hobo86]

To be fair I find this rules very much non sensical. The only reason will be a strict adherence to the rules. So badzone enforcer will not care about regulations concerning amo or otherwise.

I think the badzone enforcers rules are just a tad underdeveloped (as a WD article)
I hope they'll get more complete rules some day

the special weapons access is also a bit odd:
(they have flamer/webguns, no grenades for their subjugation grenade launcher or the generic one/no meltaguns or plasma guns, but they do have plasma pistols...) Especially the lack of the grenade launcher access (or to the subjugation grenade launcher ammo's) is tactically odd


edit:
@paxmiles:
I'll re-read those rules again later, for scarce badzone enforcer boltguns gunk bolts would be worth their weight in gold

edit 2:
In both case they mention any weapon with a bolt/autogun component, I'm not complaining about that but it's a bit worrying for those squat 'rapid fire 2/3' guns with gunk bolts or rad ammo... .
A bit further on the weapon stats p90 they do however mention specific weapontypes.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yes I do see it. I m thinking that if you use a non standard amo an enforcer bolt gun should have degraded amo check to 5+ or 6+. But that will be house rule.

Ok that would be cool. And opposite for reclaimed autogun - ammo degrades ammo check.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Actually, that wouldn't work at all. Because if you give the enforcer boltgun worse ammo stat when taking additional ammo - why not buy a normal bolter instead?!?

 

[Beebopalulla]

Actually, that wouldn't work at all. Because if you give the enforcer boltgun worse ammo stat when taking additional ammo - why not buy a normal bolter instead?!?

That's a good point.

 

[Hobo86]

perhaps a dumb question;
but you can't 'use up' your gunk bolts (+5) and then switch to your scarce regular bolts (+4) ?

 

[HugeSamples]

I've always found the rule of "using your best ammo roll to reload your gun" a bit silly. e.g. reloading krak grenades with a smoke grenades ammo check.

In my opinion, you should have to use the ammo roll of the ammo that failed. i.e. clear the ammo that jammed in the gun, etc.

Outside of the initial roll to see if you are "out of ammo", the current rules for ammo make the special ammo's ammo rolls pretty pointless (unless they happen to be better than your base ammo check).

 

[TopsyKretts]

Sure, but that is heavy book keepimg. Game got a single token to indicate out of ammo that covers every possible ammo type out there. Imagine how many unique tokens would be needed otherwise.

This has been discussed for years, I have never seen a good solutuon.

 

[SmilingSkulls]

Sure, but that is heavy book keepimg. Game got a single token to indicate out of ammo that covers every possible ammo type out there. Imagine how many unique tokens would be needed otherwise.

This has been discussed for years, I have never seen a good solutuon.

Easy solution, but not a desirable one. Each weapon has one profile. If you have alternative ammo, you have to "reload" to that type, ahead of time, and then the weapon adopts that ammo type's profile instead of the old one.

No versatility, but it's simple.

Declare which weapons start with which ammo in deployment.

 

[SmilingSkulls]

-Can I put an infra-sight on a plasmagun?

Infrasight says no-rapid fire or blast.

Plasmagun has 2 profiles, one of which is rapid fire.

Can I just opt out of the rapid fire profile and use the infrasight?

-Related, how does infra-sight interact with weapons that have alternative ammo types? Example: Sawn off shotgun...
--does the option to take scatter shells or gas shells prevent the use of the infra-sight on a sawn off shotgun, even if they are unpurchased upgrades?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Easy solution, but not a desirable one. Each weapon has one profile. If you have alternative ammo, you have to "reload" to that type, ahead of time, and then the weapon adopts that ammo type's profile instead of the old one.

No versatility, but it's simple.

Declare which weapons start with which ammo in deployment.

Not easy, heavy book keeping. Game got maybe 15-20 unique tokens? You would need perhaps 50 tokens to cover that alone.

 

[SmilingSkulls]

Not easy, heavy book keeping. Game got maybe 15-20 unique tokens? You would need perhaps 50 tokens to cover that alone.

You print your character card. You put the token on the ammo type that's loaded. Done. You might need 1 token per such weapon, but it's not even a unique token. You just need a rock or paper clip that indicates which ammo type is selected on your fighter's card. It doesn't carry over between battles, you pick the one you'd have in the "chamber" when you deploy.

There's no need for a token on the model, since ammo types don't affect WYSIWYG. If your opponent asks, you tell them, like you'd tell them if they asked what skills you have or about characteristics....

If that's too complex, the other, undesireable easy solution would be that weapons with multiple profiles are bought separately, with each profile being considered a distinct weapon. This is a low powered plasma gun, this is a super charging plasma gun. But same issue regarding WYSIWYG.

 

[Aulenback]

-Can I put an infra-sight on a plasmagun?

Infrasight says no-rapid fire or blast.

Plasmagun has 2 profiles, one of which is rapid fire.

Can I just opt out of the rapid fire profile and use the infrasight?

-Related, how does infra-sight interact with weapons that have alternative ammo types? Example: Sawn off shotgun...
--does the option to take scatter shells or gas shells prevent the use of the infra-sight on a sawn off shotgun, even if they are unpurchased upgrades?

I would say no, because the infra-sight is per WEAPON and not per PROFILE. The weapon has a profile that is either rapid fire or blast, so not that weapon. Grenade launcher would have the same problem.

 

[SmilingSkulls]

I would say no, because the infra-sight is per WEAPON and not per PROFILE. The weapon has a profile that is either rapid fire or blast, so not that weapon. Grenade launcher would have the same problem.

But that's just it, the weapon doesn't have rapid fire, the profiles do. It doesn't address whether the multiple profiles matters here or not.

What about the Sawn off shotgun example? The default version doesn't have a blast or rapid fire profile, but one of the ammo types added later does have blast.

Or what about a weapon that is eligible and has an infrasight attached, and then GW releases a new book that gives a new ammo type that is rapid fire or blast? Does the infrasight just stop working or are they "grandfathered in"? Likewise, once the infrasight is attached, what prevents me from buying ammo with blast or rapid fire at a later date?

 

[Aulenback]

Were I your arbitrator - which I am not - buying the Blast ammo for the weapon would remove infra-sight-ability while you have that ammo for it. The sight would go into the stash. Or, if the ammo dropped into the stash (is Ammo wargear as far as the stash is concerned?), you could then put the sight on it while the weapon didn't have that profile.

The weapon has two profiles (or more). It has all those traits. The Kroot rifle is a melee weapon, a versatile weapon, a knockback weapon, a disarm weapon, a Basic weapon. Not only a melee weapon. Not only a versatile weapon. Not only a knockback weapon.

The grenade launcher is a weapon with Blast (X), because one (or more) of its profiles has Blast (X).