The limit of 3 weapon slots is for normal fighters only. Many exceptions out there, for example bounty hunters have 4 (or was it 5)? And some equipment give +1 weapon slot. For Brutes this is intended to be ignored. Most brutes seem to have weapon upgrades (replacement) to solve this, however it doesn't seem to be the case here.
N18 Could you have?
- Thread starter Beebopalulla
- Start date
Yeah, the key here seems to be
At the same time, nowhere does it explicitly state that they can break this rule, the way the Bounty Hunter states that it can break this rule by carrying 5, so I understand the uncertainty.
The undulating skin isn't a weapon, but the other two clearly are, and it does clearly state "in addition to" rather than "in place of," the way many other Brutes do. The Sump Beast from the same article similarly appears to be well able to break the "three weapons per fighter" rule. The Mutated Ogryn from the same article DOES use "replace" rather than "in addition to," so it seems more likely to be intentional than accidental.
At the same time, nowhere does it explicitly state that they can break this rule, the way the Bounty Hunter states that it can break this rule by carrying 5, so I understand the uncertainty.
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GW games typically have hard rules and all sorts of implicit and explicit exceptions to break them.
Hmm... finally got time to really dive into this one....it's even more complex than I thought
hangers on and brutes, second paragraph:
"Hangers-on are primarily used in Campaign play, although some will prove particularly useful in Skirmish play. Brutes are purchased specifically to add some extra muscle and prowess on the battlefield and can be fielded alongside the rest of the gang normally. Either at gang creation or in the Update Roster step of the post-battle sequence, players can recruit Hangers- on and Brutes. These are purchased with credits from the gang's Stash in the same way as new fighters. A Fighter card is filled out for each and they are added to the gang roster. Most Hangers-on and Brutes have various options for their equipment – these must be decided when they are recruited and cannot be changed later."
Brutes, first paragraph:
"Unlike other Hangers-on, Brutes are purchased with the express intention that they be fielded in battle and are treated like any other fighter when selecting a crew. Unlike other Hangers-on, Brutes will gain Experience and Advancements in the same manner as a Specialist. Unlike Hangers-on, Brutes will not leave the gang should they suffer a Lasting Injury that makes a change to their Fighter card."
And then from the warp horror:
"A Warp Horror may take any of the following upgrades, in addition to its horrific appendages. Note, during a campaign, a Warp Horror can also do this in the post-battle sequence to represent it mutating: " <it then lists the upgrade options>
From the first bullet point of New Equipment
"Any fighter or Crew may discard any Wargear (including a vehicle) they are equipped with in favour of new Wargear. Any Wargear discarded in this way is placed in the gang's Stash and may be given to other fighters. Note that this means Wargear can only be discarded if being replaced by an alternative item that fulfils a similar purpose."
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My read is that I'm limited to 3 weapons. I can acquire more than 3 over the campaign, but over 3 would require excess to be traded for an existing one, which is then sent to the stash.
Further, being able to change weapons at all, is apparently unique to the Warp Horror as far as brutes are concerned.
That said, I'm still somewhat unclear, since it describes them as "upgrades" and I'm not clear if they should be allowed to be sending their warp horror mutation weapons to the gang's stash.
hangers on and brutes, second paragraph:
"Hangers-on are primarily used in Campaign play, although some will prove particularly useful in Skirmish play. Brutes are purchased specifically to add some extra muscle and prowess on the battlefield and can be fielded alongside the rest of the gang normally. Either at gang creation or in the Update Roster step of the post-battle sequence, players can recruit Hangers- on and Brutes. These are purchased with credits from the gang's Stash in the same way as new fighters. A Fighter card is filled out for each and they are added to the gang roster. Most Hangers-on and Brutes have various options for their equipment – these must be decided when they are recruited and cannot be changed later."
Brutes, first paragraph:
"Unlike other Hangers-on, Brutes are purchased with the express intention that they be fielded in battle and are treated like any other fighter when selecting a crew. Unlike other Hangers-on, Brutes will gain Experience and Advancements in the same manner as a Specialist. Unlike Hangers-on, Brutes will not leave the gang should they suffer a Lasting Injury that makes a change to their Fighter card."
And then from the warp horror:
"A Warp Horror may take any of the following upgrades, in addition to its horrific appendages. Note, during a campaign, a Warp Horror can also do this in the post-battle sequence to represent it mutating: " <it then lists the upgrade options>
From the first bullet point of New Equipment
"Any fighter or Crew may discard any Wargear (including a vehicle) they are equipped with in favour of new Wargear. Any Wargear discarded in this way is placed in the gang's Stash and may be given to other fighters. Note that this means Wargear can only be discarded if being replaced by an alternative item that fulfils a similar purpose."
**************
My read is that I'm limited to 3 weapons. I can acquire more than 3 over the campaign, but over 3 would require excess to be traded for an existing one, which is then sent to the stash.
Further, being able to change weapons at all, is apparently unique to the Warp Horror as far as brutes are concerned.
That said, I'm still somewhat unclear, since it describes them as "upgrades" and I'm not clear if they should be allowed to be sending their warp horror mutation weapons to the gang's stash.
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Never noticed that, it's an update to v2 (N24) as it couldn't update weapons in v1 (N20). Pretty sure GW didn't mean to swap horrific appendages into stash when you upgrade to warpfire breath. The rule of 3 weapon slots applies to basic fighters. Warp Horror is anything but basic. Keep it simple!
1. Weapons are not wargear, and don't get discarded to the stash.
2. Brutes universally (so far) don't have Tools of the Trade that would allow them to make multiple weapons sets.
3. Brutes first paragraph is explicitly " treated like any other fighter when selecting a crew" not just "treated like any other fighter."
4. none of this actually answers whether they are limited to 3 weapons, but if they are limited to 3 weapons, they remain limited to 3 weapons entirely, with no discarding weapons to the stash. Weapons aren't wargear.
2. Brutes universally (so far) don't have Tools of the Trade that would allow them to make multiple weapons sets.
3. Brutes first paragraph is explicitly " treated like any other fighter when selecting a crew" not just "treated like any other fighter."
4. none of this actually answers whether they are limited to 3 weapons, but if they are limited to 3 weapons, they remain limited to 3 weapons entirely, with no discarding weapons to the stash. Weapons aren't wargear.
Another one of these weird rules (RAW) is you can pick any model as an outcast gang leader, and this model would have access to its own + the same weapons as a outcast gang leader (rarity 9 or less), so an ambot or sump krock with plasma pistols, a mining laser or a heavy stubber could technically? be possible.
I believe you are correct.
That said I imagine any and all of this is at the discretion of the arbitrator.
Want a wacky gang/campaign? Go for it.
Want something that makes more sense? Don't do it.
1. yeah, realized that late, after posting.
2. no issue there.
3. hmm....so that came up in my most recent game: If they aren't another fighter, what are they? Like if a fighter is making a recovery test, do they count as a fighter for the assistance? It's definitely easier, mechanically, to consider them adhering to the fighter rules.
4. yeah, and further, does them being "upgrades" change this any? It sure is a messy one.
3. They are a fighter, but since we are looking at a possible exception to "the usual rules" for most [but not all - see Bounty Hunters, see GSC third arms, see...] fighters, it is important to note that this quote isn't "treated like any other fighter when equipping weapons."
4. Yes, "upgraded to replace" and "upgraded by adding" ["in addition" versus "replaced with"] is what causes the question here, really. The ogryn in the same article is upgraded by replacing, whereas the sump horror for example is upraded by "addition."
4. Yes, "upgraded to replace" and "upgraded by adding" ["in addition" versus "replaced with"] is what causes the question here, really. The ogryn in the same article is upgraded by replacing, whereas the sump horror for example is upraded by "addition."
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Fast Shot makes Shoot a Simple action instead of a Basic action, but does not make you Shoot twice in one action. It still takes two actions to shoot twice.
Overwatch gives you one Shoot (Basic) action outside the timing of your normal Activation.
So it does not look as though there is any way that the one Overwatch Shoot (basic) action would become two Shoot (simple) actions. It would just become one Shoot (Simple) action instead.
BUT you definitely could Twin Guns Blazing as part of your Overwatch Shoot (Basic) action. So Gunslinger would be the better one to combine with Overwatch, rather than Fast Shot. [Hmm... what's the longest range puchaseable Sidearm in Necromunda at present? Aha! Archeo-Dueling Pistol, at sixteen inches.]
Overwatch gives you one Shoot (Basic) action outside the timing of your normal Activation.
So it does not look as though there is any way that the one Overwatch Shoot (basic) action would become two Shoot (simple) actions. It would just become one Shoot (Simple) action instead.
BUT you definitely could Twin Guns Blazing as part of your Overwatch Shoot (Basic) action. So Gunslinger would be the better one to combine with Overwatch, rather than Fast Shot. [Hmm... what's the longest range puchaseable Sidearm in Necromunda at present? Aha! Archeo-Dueling Pistol, at sixteen inches.]
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You can argue about RAW. RAI is clearly no limitation. Balance doesn't break by piling on weapons so irrelevant. What is most simple? I would imagine treating it as RAI, not to intefere with complicated discussions about RAW. But perhaps some would argue to apply universal 3 weapon slots to be easier?
normal range is 12", there are a few at 16"/24" but, that's only on special characters
thank you for the info... it offers more options
On an RAI level, I think I would tweak it, so the warp horror is capped at 2 weapons, but they can "mutate" into different weapon loadouts in the post battle. The upgrades, in such a case, would expand the available choices of weapon loadouts, post battle.
I feel like that's probably the intention here.
PS: Arbitrator offered some interesting insights on this one. Commented that it was odd that it had Drag on a melee attack (massive tentacle). Also thought the versatile being 4" was a bit abnormally far for a melee attack.
That would make much more sense. Would be even more unique to have it swap weapons during campaign. I don't see any evidence of that intention in the rules though. But why cap? For balance, you'd only get the optimal laodout from getgo. Or possibly add a weapon later if low on cash or reacting to meta. Other than that, piling on more weapons is only going to nerf noobs.
The Versatile 4" weapon with Drag seems definitely intentional - Drag can pull you into base-to-base Engaged, allowing the other weapons to then be used should you have survived. While high strength, the tentacles is less deadly than the other weapons like the Horrific Appendages. Heck, they only really make sense as a weapon if the Horrific Appendages are kept, whether one or two.
If you have a (non genestealer cult) gunslinger with (by example) 3 autopistols (2 with scopes/one without) and 1 (with scope) runs out of ammo,
can you swap out the scope from to the unloaded gun and continue without reloading or will your attacks now be with 1 auto pistol with scope and another without. (until you reload)
I couldn't find er... this in the rules.
can you swap out the scope from to the unloaded gun and continue without reloading or will your attacks now be with 1 auto pistol with scope and another without. (until you reload)
I couldn't find er... this in the rules.
I don't see any ability to swap the scope between weapons DURING a game. It is a (permanent?) upgrade to only one weapon.
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