N18 Could you have?

[Lunarcruiser]

while my science skills may be low... I would like to point out there already exist a few IRL short range laser anti-drone weapons (royal navy Red Sea & ukraine around a few electricity centrals, US & French Rafael lazers) wich may explain some noise er... situations. I quickly googled those weapon systems and they're silent, very focussed and er... only visible when burning the target.

Those real world weapons are a different kettle of fish. (I can not confirm for security reasons if I have been into related facilites).
For starters they and other weapons of similar types are sustained directed energy beams which is not a practial use of a typical military long arm. It is too cumbersome to use in agile infantry combat. Targets move too fast at too close a range to lock on for long enough. Those weapons rely on sustained contact, your ganger will be able to move out of the beams area of effect before can kill them. Those systems also require dedicated rather bulky computers to function technically and importantly maintain the target lock. The Imperium uses rotting skulls for computers.
For a Handheld rifle type weapon to be effective on a human it would require a much higher intensity light beam at a hotter burn for a much shorter duration.
Todays laser weapons are for attacking Drones Heilcopters and other arial targets a lot of the damage is to the electronic systems and internal mechanisms. Humans have much more robust electromagnetic systems than todays inorganic electronics. EMPs and electronic damage does little to humans.
A real life laser would do nothing apart from heat up a solid shot cannon ball. Various personal lasers in development are at best a non lethal crowd control weapon with some, banned, blinding properties. To bring it up to lethal, arm the Imperial guard, levels it would require massive increases in power for the gun that just is not similar to the dazzlers and electro lasers today, its mice to elephants.

The larger ship and turret weapons in use and development today are arial defence weapons and the weapons themselves are not silent. Just listen to your PC or laptop. They have a tiny fraction of the juce going through then compared to a one of those. Each weapon will have a distinctive noise. It's not a crack or a bang of a proectile but it is still there. To massively ramp up the output to an anti human weapon it would increase the noise level.

microwave based systems are also used against slow moving drones (basically those systems 'laser burn' or 'focus microwave' slow moving targets)

Not a practical use on humans with 21st century personal weapons

This may be separate from lower intensity 'targeting' lazers and maybe 40k's laser differ in other points (stronger, more light in a fraction of a second, sudden overheating lens creating air 'pop' or a directional 'fast blast, part of the lens being functional and part creating 'effect lights')

As I discribed in overview.

Once you increase the power and capability of a process it does not just track that the previous conditions would be the same at a lower level or even that they increase at a Linear rate. The maths just does not move in a Linear line it is a ramping up curve.

Apart from some theatrical licence over the exact colours (The Bright green laser bolts look better on film than pale) and some slowing down for dramatic effect Star wars actually got its "lasers" right in basic terms. The general laser physics has not really changed since the 1960s just improved engineering

 

[Hobo86]

1. real life laser & upscale to 40k: I interpreted 40k laser weapons as a stronger powered (somehow?) and better directed laser weapon
this would (theoretically) solves the necessity of keeping a target locked/heating with a continuous beam.

if the light would travel in a focused (this would require a high quality), very intense beam for a fraction of a second, it could become invisible to the naked eye... especially if this burst is short enough.

humans interpret 'light' as light when light bursts are repeated frequently enough to be seen as continuous light (TL lights have 'unnoticeable 'dark' fractions of a second*).... a laser could theoretically become invisible if the 'blast' is short enough.

2. microwave: I agree... but added it for completeness

3. I think a laser could (theoretically) be designed to be invisible, could be designed as very visible (by including a guiding beam in the style of tracer bullets...) or could add visual or auditive side effects due to the reasons you described. depending of the design all could be realistic options.



*1/12 of a second if my camera geekery is correct... most cameras come with a function to hide this dark fraction of a second

 

[Lunarcruiser]

@Hobo86
You know we are discussing high tech concepts about a weapon from a culture that often struggles with such marvels as the belt assembly line and cogs right?

 

[Hobo86]

yeah... but it's dumbed down dark age of technology stuff.
they might have found some missing macguffin or it could be faith powered or something...

I should ask my christian old man how that faith thing works...

 

[Hobo86]

could you have: an infrasight on a common shotgun?

(as it's not rapid fire or blast 3" / 5")

 

[Hobo86]

a bit of practical IRL lasgun info:

 

[Lunarcruiser]

could you have: an infrasight on a common shotgun?

(as it's not rapid fire or blast 3" / 5")

Yes.
Real life it would make little difference to a scatter round though.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Could you have a campaign with only juve with prospect as champions and leader? Will it be balance? I m thinking about classique moves like "Class of 1984" and"classe of 1999" but Necromunda style.

 

[Hobo86]

you'd need to balance out/look at the specialists/weapon acces to do that.
if not you could have underpowered leadership supporting fairly lethal special weapons & heavy weapons

edit: misread/missed the juve as gangers part, ...
-The original article about '95 brat gangs talked about this.
-yes, but it would be way more affected by having to roll (to hit) well... escher pet's might also become unbalanced in this setup?

 

[quindraco]

- Have a Spyrer as an outcast leader outside hive Secundus?

Yes, of course.

Alternatively, the player can choose an existing fighter profile and elevate them to Underhive Outcasts Leader status. This fighter can come from any Necromunda publication and includes, but is not limited to: Clan House gang leaders, Guild, Noble and Criminal fighters, Dramatis Personae and Hangers-on. Once a profile has been selected, the player then follows the steps Designer's Note: Elevating A Fighter To Leader Status to elevate them to Leader status. Once a fighter has been elevated, they are then considered to be the Leader of the gang.

 

[katfezza]

Could you have a campaign with only juve with prospect as champions and leader? Will it be balance? I m thinking about classique moves like "Class of 1984" and"classe of 1999" but Necromunda style.

I tried out a 500cred minicampaign with a Champion as leader, a Specialist (functioning as a champion but with 3" gang heirarchy and no group activation), and the rest of the gang as juves. Equipment was restricted to being no more than the value of a fighter, so you could get better gear if you increased our value through advancements. No house weapons table, but any gang could buy and use any common weapons (Orlocks with laspistols for example).

Territory used the Ash Waste locations (so a few D6 creds at most). Rather than parts of the wastes it was streets around the edge of a settlement with the juve gangs fighting over alleyways and such.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Could you have any equipment from any gang house list ?

Yes you can if you have a well connected trader and all player agree to trade.

One possible exception could be nomad. One impossible is Spyrer gang because they don't trade.

Always wanted an Orlock with a Cawdor crossbow? If their players agree to trade yes you can.

I totally overlook that. It open plenty of possibilities.

 

[quindraco]

Could you have any equipment from any gang house list ?

No, because gang/house equipment lists no longer exist.

Yes you can if you have a well connected trader and all player agree to trade.

This works sometimes; any gear not in the trading post can only be used if it has a rule saying so, like Escher chems do.

One possible exception could be nomad. One impossible is Spyrer gang because they don't trade.

That doesn't make any sense. If the arbitrator is allowing trading, Spyrers should be physically capable of e.g. giving a gang a respirator.

Always wanted an Orlock with a Cawdor crossbow? If their players agree to trade yes you can.

The Orlock would not be able to equip it, per the fighter's equipment rules.

 

[Hobo86]

The RAW rules sometimes offer a few er... odd 'should this be even possible' moments.
This is topic is about those.

1) your first point is +- correct the Gang/houselists have mostly been replaced with 'the equipment of gang leaders' (venator, outcasts)
RAW you need to agree this change also affects the gang leaders equipment(s) wich is not a given.

2 & 4) this is incorrect 'for the older books' in the 'munda ruleset... other games do explicitly work that way (mordheim)

3) RAW this is possible for the nomads... but does the 'nomads don't trade with wider society' overrules 'connected trader' or the other way around?

The question remain what rules overrules the other because either connected trader won't work for 3/4 of current gangs/fighters or it overrides part of all gang's weapon acces (current frasing in the house of iron book: this list, trading post & black market) to be able to work.
I think this becomes a bit of a grey space between the newest books using different terminology compared to some of the older books still in use.
RAW it would still be possible but it would likely be filtered out in, newer book editions including the connected trader rules updates.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Alright my phrasing may not have been stellar. Point is instead of house list you can also add list under a specific fighter of a "house of..." Or equivalent. For example a stiletto sword use by Van Saar.

If a fighter can use equipment including weapon from the trade post despite not being on a fighter list I don't see why it will not be possible.

For the Spyrer they don't trade at all. What could they possibly trade? With what money?

I don't have much time to look at the rule today. My understanding is if someone has a well connected trader + players willing to trade what is in theirs stash + have capacity to trade, there should not be an obstacle to the trade.


Except for armor as the can't go to a stash. Or Mount because it can be discarded.

 

[spafe]

If a fighter can use equipment including weapon from the trade post despite not being on a fighter list I don't see why it will not be possible.

I suspect this is a problem though. an Orlock champion can use weapons from their own list, or from the trading post. a Cawdor cross bow does not appear on either of those lists, so while you could 'trade' for a cawdor crossbow, you cannot equip it to anyone. RAW at least.

if you are talking about it not making sense... well no, it doesnt, but neither does a cawdor ganger not being able to use a lasgun.... RAW only of course.

 

[Beebopalulla]

Good points. And gang without list like outcast and venator do they have the same limitations?

 

[spafe]

unless you have taken the clan affiliation or house origin (whatever the exact names are for the outcast leader history or venator individual fighter background), I'm pretty sure both lists will limit you to trading post items only as well (or their own list for the outcast scum, akin to the gangers from the house of books).

basically how they are all worded these days is that they can only equip what they have access to (so they either cannot equip it, or they do not need to trade to access it as it is already available to them)

 

[Beebopalulla]

So trade is possible but equipping is only possible if both trading partners can have access to the same equipment?

 

[MusingWarboss]

house of books

Never had such an accidental term rung so true…