N18 Critique my Chaos Corrupted, Genestealer Infected Escher list please 🙏

Mar 26, 2024
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My friend and I are currently playing through the Underhive scenarios with intent to start the Turf War campaign soon. We'll move up to 4 players for the campaign, most likely.

This is a 1000 credits list. The queen wielded a plasma pistol in the first iteration but that was dropped for a grenade launcher because I lacked blast or template weapons.

I'd like to keep my death-maiden, hybrid juve, chaos spawn, and aberrant for theme and flavor. I'm completely open to changing their loadouts and swapping anyone else.

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I'm not quite sure where to start with this one. Setting aside my distaste for the lore-wrenching notion of being both Chaos and Genestealer affiliated this is a list that will look intimidating when deployed but I suspect will underperform.

You need to choose a role for your Queen, currently she's equipped for range support and close quarters when realistically she's only likely to do one of those things in most games.

The grenade launcher is your only high S mid-long range weapon, it's also your only source of blast/templates, so more often than not she's going to want to be shooting that every turn. This means she'll be left behind by your melee contingent who'll be double-moving up the board. This means her Shock whip and the short-ranged Mind Control ability will not likely see any use. Alternately she can try move fast up the board to make the best use of that 3A and her psyker abilities in which case she's not firing the GL.

Spring Up is a solid choice for a melee fighter, or as cheap pseudo-suspensors for a heavy weapon model, im.not sure it's the strongest choice on this model.

My advice with her would be to either go pure ranged and save credits on the melee/psyker abilities, or pass the grenade launcher onto another model (a ganger specialist could use it, or another champion.

The Death Maiden is fine, you could shave some credits out here giving her a Stiletto Sword and a needle pistol over the plasma/power combo. Your loadout is, I think, stronger in the long run but it's more expensive when Stiletto/needle, which both use the Maidens poison blood ability, will do a perfectly adequate job of killing things. For her skill pick I'd typically recommend Spring Up or Combat Virtuoso here. Pinning is a Death Maidens worst enemy and both those skill picks mitigate that to a degree. Hit and Run seems good on paper but realistically the Maiden is likely to kill anything she gets into melee with on the first round, so it never really sees any use.

The Aberrant is ok, just watch out for the lack of pinning mitigation and the WS4+ on these guys, sometimes going for something like 2 chainswords, which boost your to-hit and provide a bonus attack give more reliable results than the harder hitting weapons with S bonuses.

The Chaos Spawn in a really swing-y miniature which, in my experience, is a great distraction carnifex against inexperienced players, but rarely performs well or does what you need it to do. For 130 credits in this list its taking up space that could be used to add models that provide more reliable hitting power and, since you already have so many other thematic models I think you need to ask yourself what this is really adding?

For contrast, you could run an extra champion for this cost. A matriarch would give you a good platform for that grenade launcher, and would allow your Queen to lead the melee contingent down the table to use her psychic shenanigans, a matriarch would also allow you more post-battle actions. At the moment you can only do 2, and that gets reduced further if your Queen or Death Maiden get the wrong injury roll after a battle.

Gangers and the Escher juve are all solid choices. The Hybrid juve is a fun thematic piece, but it's very expensive for what is an extra attack. For the same base price you could buy two of the frankly excellent Escher juves with stub guns.

If you're going to keep a thematic model, id stick with this one as it's cheaper than the Spawn, just don't expect too much from her.
 
Thank you so much for all this incredible feedback!

I've tried to take everything into account in this new list except I'd like to keep the Chaos Spawn (they're my only Chaos piece on the table), so I tried to find a compromise by promoting one of the gangers to a specialist and moving the grenade launcher to her. I've swapped the Queen's shock whip for a chain axe and a plasma pistol to make her more melee-oriented and able to get up close and personal to use her mind powers. I gave the Death-maiden a Stiletto Sword and a Needle Pistol instead.

I've swapped the power maul on the Aberrant for two chainswords as you suggest. I've dropped the hybrid juve for a stock juve.

What do you think about the plasma pistol and chainaxe combo on the Queen? Is the loss of one lasgun for a grenade launcher on the Ganger Specialist a decent compromise? Would you say this will be a more satisfying gang to play?

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I would be open to swapping the Chaos Spawn for another Chaos unit hirable by a Chaos Corrupted gang. How about a Warp Horror?
 
Here's an alternative list where I've managed to squeeze in a Warp Horror, but I had to cut the rest of my gang down to the bone to do it. The cost in credits is the same between the Ogryn and Warp Horror, so this is illustrative of what a list would be like featuring either.

It's a lot of knives!

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Plasma pistol and chain axe are both strong weapons, if you wanted to shave some credits off then you could downgrade or entirely drop the plasma pistol. Your queen will still have 4 attacks on the charge with the chain axe which will be bad news for most things you run up against. The plasma pistol gives you a shooting option at 12" but you also have the mind control (which memory tells me is 9" range?) which you could use instead.

Plasma pistols a strong choice, don't get me wrong, but 50 creds is the cost of a ganger.

Have only a single lasgun in the backline is fine, personally I prefer to use two, but the job of the lasgun is to put pins on priority targets. Sometimes they get lucky and score a wound but mostly it's there to be a spoiler and disrupt an opponents plans. They're cheap enough to add in later if needed. Alternately you could drop one of you juves and the leaders plasma pistol to buy a second lasgun ganger and a chem synth for the Death Maiden, which will improve her toxin weaponry..

Regarding the replacement for the Spawn, I can't recall how their cost compares but if you can afford it, go for it. The issue with the spawn is the random stats, sometimes it works out great but mostly it doesn't. Taking something with a fixed statline will produce more reliable results.

Edit - not a fan of the second list, you sacrifice too much to squeeze that model in to my view...
 
I dropped the Queen's plasma pistol, dropped a Juve, bought a new lasgun-toting Ganger and bought a chem-synth for the Death-maiden. There were 20 credits left over, so I bought a hotshot las pack for one of the gangers.

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I also have a Traitor Ogryn that could work as a Servitor Ogryn! Very Chaos.

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There is a Awakened Ogryn on the Warhammer community Apocrypha article The lost Charter. Basically a Ogryn boss with modest equipment, but still Ogryn, just with added pyker powers for warp based crazyness. (Not the best Psyker but unlike many it can at least take a hit and pimp slap back).

Another Big lovable Hug Monster alternative is the Mutated Ogryn from the White Dwarf article now Apocrypha Book. Now that is just a nasty beast of carnage. It gets pricy though, as a brute you must buy your fancy toys at recruitment. Maybe a later purchase
 
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I'm not an expert here, but I feel like in your most recent iteration the only thing you are getting from the Genestealer portion of the list is a mediocre wyrd power and an aberrant?

Pretty sure chaos gets familiars also, but I could be mistaken.
 
I'm not an expert here, but I feel like in your most recent iteration the only thing you are getting from the Genestealer portion of the list is a mediocre wyrd power and an aberrant?

Pretty sure chaos gets familiars also, but I could be mistaken.
You're right. It isn't much. I'm trying to make a decent list that is thematic first, good second. With the community's help, hopefully it's decent enough to be fun for both my opponent and I. Chaos Corrupted gangs do not get familiars, however. That's a Genestealer Infected thing.
There is a Awakened Ogryn on the Warhammer community Apocrypha article The lost Charter. Basically a Ogryn boss with modest equipment, but still Ogryn, just with added pyker powers for warp based crazyness. (Not the best Psyker but unlike many it can at least take a hit and pimp slap back).

Another Big lovable Hug Monster alternative is the Mutated Ogryn from the White Dwarf article now Apocrypha Book. Now that is just a nasty beast of carnage. It gets pricy though, as a brute you must buy your fancy toys at recruitment. Maybe a later purchase
Thank you for this. I didn't realize they had loosened the restrictions for the Outcast Brutes between their appearance in White Dwarf and the Apocrypha book. If I wasn't working with such a restricted point total, I'd definitely pick up an Awakened or Mutated Ogryn.
 
As I can't hire a Chaos Spawn in campaign play, I've rejiggered my alternative list for campaign play to drop the familiar, paired the Queen's armaments down to just a stiletto knife, swapped the Death-maiden's weapons for two power knives and, with 5 credits left over, given one of the Juves an Autopistol.

I'll use this skirmish list I posted last Wednesday when we meet again to play on Monday.

When we start our Turf War campaign early next month, I'll play with some variation of the below list. I'm still making big sacrifices, but the Warp Horror is such a cool set piece and gives me a strong Chaos unit to start.

From Genestealer Infected I've still got the Aberrant and Psyker and from Chaos Corrupted I've got the rituals and Warp Horror. I would have liked to double-up on the Psykers with an Awakened Ogryn but then I'd need to swap out the stiletto knife on the Queen for a fighting knife, and give back a stub gun to one of the juves to afford the extra 10 credits.

YouTube channel, Miniature Rundown, did a video on Genestealer Infected gangs where they point out one Psyker could take Unbreakable Will so that the Awakened Ogryn won't suck at being an Awakened Ogryn.

Thoughts?

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I kinda think you're likely to get kinda stomped against a lot of regular gangs. You'll be showing up at gunfights with only one good gun and only two with respectable range and no way to cover the advance of your three melee fighters.
Your leader is a big credit sink who isn't going to contribute much to the fight.
I don't mean to be overly brutal in my critique, but I think you're likely to to be disappointed in battlefield performance.
 
I would suggest dropping the Stiletto Knife and Psyker ability from your Leader and giving her a Boltgun. You can add the Psyker ability, melee weapons and other good stuff later.

The Power Knives on your Death Maiden are a little "meh". A pair of Stiletto Swords or one Stiletto Sword and a Needle Pistol + a Chem Synth are your best available loadouts.

I'd also suggest dropping the Fighting Knives from the Juves and one Chain Sword from the Abberant to get yourself another ganger with a Lasgun. Alternately, you could just drop one Fighting Knife and give that Juve a Smoke Grenade to protect your melee fighters as they advance.

Eschers are a good, flexible gang: they can both shoot well and melee well. However, if you lean too hard into one style of play your results will probably suffer. The way your list is now, your melee crew will struggle to get in to contact before getting shot up by most gangs, while gangs like Goliath and Corpse Grinders will still beat you in close combat and your one Grenade Launcher and one Lasgun aren't going to be enough to win the match for you.
 
I would suggest dropping the Stiletto Knife and Psyker ability from your Leader and giving her a Boltgun. You can add the Psyker ability, melee weapons and other good stuff later.

The Power Knives on your Death Maiden are a little "meh". A pair of Stiletto Swords or one Stiletto Sword and a Needle Pistol + a Chem Synth are your best available loadouts.

I'd also suggest dropping the Fighting Knives from the Juves and one Chain Sword from the Abberant to get yourself another ganger with a Lasgun. Alternately, you could just drop one Fighting Knife and give that Juve a Smoke Grenade to protect your melee fighters as they advance.

Eschers are a good, flexible gang: they can both shoot well and melee well. However, if you lean too hard into one style of play your results will probably suffer. The way your list is now, your melee crew will struggle to get in to contact before getting shot up by most gangs, while gangs like Goliath and Corpse Grinders will still beat you in close combat and your one Grenade Launcher and one Lasgun aren't going to be enough to win the match for you.
Awesome suggestions, thanks for working with me to make my silly concept not fall flat on its face in campaign play!

I took all your suggestions and this is what it now looks like:
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What skill would you recommend I swap for Spring Up on the Queen now that she's a ranged fighter?
 
Spring up is still good if planning to add combat as credits start flowing.

I've always been a fan of inspirational as something different. Fail a cool test and roll leadership for the leader and anyone in 12"! This gives you a bit more staying power in tight bottle situations. Remember the leader is friendly to themselves and then shares any pass out to 12". It still has use in target priority tests too, with so few good guns having something extra to make sure they shoot where you need could be helpful.
 
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Dodge is a solid call for a ranged fighter, gives you a neat in invulnerable save that just adds to durability.

Spring Up is also fine, you can also go down the Leadership skills route..
 
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Spring up is great for eshers in particular. You get hit, stay prone until you activate nice and safe then get up and blast. With good initiative it's better than nerves of steel.

I would drop the chain sword on your
Aberrant to start with. They have such punchy stats for a ganger to start with on thier own. Champion level WS T W and A with Brute level S. They can start off just fine with thier bare fists. You can always get a weapon or two later. Look at your opponents and their average Toughness. Most gangs hover around T3. With a base S5 you are already wounding on 3+. You only need a S+1 weapon to boost you to S6 and wound on 2+. You will do very well getting them humble power knives later to give you S6 and Power which I find a bit more effective than Rending with the damage potential and possibly ignoring armour saves. You can do easily pummel foes until then.

That would free up 25 credits for say a Armoured undersuit for your Murder Tornado (death maiden). Or a telescopic sight (might not be on you starting options though).
Or also remove a lasgun from one of your Sisters and give them a shotgun instead. That will give you a little more punch at close range at least with future additional ammo options to add greater punch. (With a 5 credit lasgun it is very economical to add an additional Sister with one later on if you need an extra mid range pinning fighter. The far more expensive shotgun can be more out of reach if you don't earn a lot initially).

Or (yet again) you could just move your chain sword to your Queen. They have WS 3+ after all and gives them a multi role. You will not always be able to keep the foe at range and Parry weapons like the chain sword are good back ups for ranged fighter. They are decent enough on thier own and the Parry trait is a useful defensive trait.

Psyker powers are fun and all but the Psyker still fall when facing a Plasma bolt to the face. It is best to have one specialist in freaky brain powers at most while the rest of your gang focuses on normal ranged or close combat. A key power can turn a battle in your favour but they are opportunistic and often shorter ranged. Lasguns/bolters/power swords etc regularly work.
 
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I would drop the chain sword on your
Aberrant to start with.

That would free up 25 credits for say a Armoured undersuit for your Murder Tornado (death maiden). Or a telescopic sight (might not be on you starting options though).
Or also remove a lasgun from one of your Sisters and give them a shotgun instead. That will give you a little more punch at close range at least with future additional ammo options to add greater punch. (With a 5 credit lasgun it is very economical to add an additional Sister with one later on if you need an extra mid range pinning fighter. The far more expensive shotgun can be more out of reach if you don't earn a lot initially).
I liked your suggestion to drop the chainsword for a shotgun on one of my Sisters because I like a variety of weapons, so I did that, thanks!

Does that still me a decent backing line to threaten for my close combat fighters to move up?

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Your latest gang has a lot of initial melee punch, the murder tornado the warp horror and the aberrant, and with the bolter and lasgun give you passable mid range pinning power (with the capacity to put in some real hurt with the bolter).
I would class the grenade launcher as a tactical weapon rather than a mid range weapon. Yes it's Kraks have a lot of punch but it's frags give you a Blast Template as well at times you want to Krak that champion other times it would be best to Frag and pin a group. A tool for careful use.
With your Shotgun and little sisters you have some decent close range fire power as well.

A normal Esher gang works well when they run a Melee half supported by either a midrange /high range firepower base or a Close range firepower base and vise versa. The have the speed in movement and agility to flip between the two well.

Your starting gang has all three and in my opinion half melee and a fairly even split between mid range support and close range support with your grenade launcher capable of supporting both. Gangs like that can work (Delaque do it all the time). It can be a knife edge to work on.
I would let your melee monsters manage with what they have to start with. They will run just fine for a while. As you progress I would focus in improving one of your fire power bases with additional Sisters/matriarchs with that bracket of weapon and improved ammo (hot shots, shotgun, auto pistol ammo).
Either mid range firepower or close range can be bolstered initially but that depends on how you personally play. You could fine you do really well sniping at 18" or you might find you run at the 12" shotgun bracket well.
Pick the one you are good at to give it a significant boost to start then supplement the other one later probably at the same time you improve your melee fighters.

Your pistoleers and shotgunner will need to move up along side your melee fighters to provide close range fire support.