N18 Current state of the grenade launcher ammo?

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
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Looking at the grenade launcher ammo and combi in particular, how do people play this?

Quick history of grenade launcher combi ammo:
VersionTypesCombiSingle ShotAmmoNote
N18 (Gangs)FragNoYes*Am * probably indicates no need to roll due to Single Shot.
N19 (Perils & Judgement)Anti-plant, flareNoYesSame as original
N20 (Goliath & Orlock)FragNoNoSame as originalLost Single Shot. Gained Am 6+.
N21 (Outcast & Trading Post pdf)Frag, Krak, StunYesNoAll set to 6+ (worst)Stun (combi) got Am 6+ instead of 4+ (normal stun ammo)

I would expect some universal rules for all grenade launcher combi ammo like this:
  • Combi
  • Single Shot
  • Keep original Ammo (or override with 6+ always)
Not easy to make a summary of what the profiles should be:
1646301885592.png
 
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Mr. M

Gang Champion
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Aug 1, 2019
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These kind of garbage, ambiguous rules are so unnecessary to have a fun game. The insane amount of seemingly meaningless "rules for the sake of having rules" is pretty much like throwing sand in the gears of a (once) finely built machine. At this point, I view the official Necromunda rules as about as fun as reading the tax code - a disorganized mess of contradictory micro-regulation that is constantly being "tweaked" so no reasonable person can know the actual state of affairs. I don't consider the tax code to be very enjoyable, but it's not meant to be - it's meant to extract money from people, so I guess that's the reason why Newcromunda was designed to read like the tax code. Oh, but wait! They're going to add vehicles and moar buuks - Wow I can't wait! I'm about as excited as I am to make quarterly estimated payments and file some Form 1099s in triplicate!
 

Mr. M

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Aug 1, 2019
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San Jose, CA
Also, @TopsyKretts : your Necrodamus effort is nothing short of amazing. Your compilation (it should probably be called a rationalizing of the rules as opposed to just compiling) reminds me of those beautiful, intricate patterns drawn by Tibetan monks in sand - such incredible, astounding clarity out of complexity; only to be blown away when the winds shift (or someone flips through the 1000 or so pages of official "rules"). Anyway, I've hijacked your thread enough with this sump seepage... As I show myself out, I'd just like to make sure you know that your efforts to untie this rules knot are very much appreciated.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Honored Tribesman
Dec 29, 2017
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These kind of garbage, ambiguous rules are so unnecessary to have a fun game. The insane amount of seemingly meaningless "rules for the sake of having rules" is pretty much like throwing sand in the gears of a (once) finely built machine. At this point, I view the official Necromunda rules as about as fun as reading the tax code - a disorganized mess of contradictory micro-regulation that is constantly being "tweaked" so no reasonable person can know the actual state of affairs. I don't consider the tax code to be very enjoyable, but it's not meant to be - it's meant to extract money from people, so I guess that's the reason why Newcromunda was designed to read like the tax code. Oh, but wait! They're going to add vehicles and moar buuks - Wow I can't wait! I'm about as excited as I am to make quarterly estimated payments and file some Form 1099s in triplicate!
Yeah I was trying to think if it made sense to combine 'Combi' and 'Single Shot', then figured I didn't even care...
Also, @TopsyKretts : your Necrodamus effort is nothing short of amazing.
Cheers :D
 

JayTee

Ganger
Jun 14, 2015
243
465
63
We removed the Combi trait and kept the single-shot trait. It didn't make a lot of sense for your Autogun to be adversely affected by duct-taping a tube to launch a grenade from.

Then when HoF came out we took a leaf out of the Exterminator and basically make an Auxiliary Grenade Launcher that is just like the Exterminator. You buy it, attach it to another weapon (limited to Autoguns/Boltguns/Reclaimed-Autogun), and you've got a one-shot grenade to have fun with. Doesn't take up a weapon slot, doesn't affect the weapon you've glued it to. Undecided on whether we're considering it a weapon attachment so Gangers/Juves can get it, I'm for it as it makes the humble Autogun potentially pack a one-shot punch with an Aux Krak Grenade.

Prior to this I've never seen anyone take a Combi-grenade launcher, it was pretty trash.
 

Stompzilla

Gang Champion
Jan 11, 2013
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I've never, in 25 years of gaming and being involved with the hobby, seen so many people posting in a forum about a game that they actively hate.

I come from a competitive background and used to be heavily involved in tournaments - even came 6th out of 450 people, one year at a GW 40k Grand Tournament many moons ago and have been involved with loads of different games systems - Kill Team, Epic Armageddon, Drop Zone Commander to name a few and I happen to LOVE Necromunda.

Yes, it's a bit of a hot mess at times rules wise but it's supposed to be a fairly fast and loose sandbox, not a slick, streamlined tournament game and that's one of the things I love about it. It's not a game for people with no self control and a win at all cost mentality (Not that I'm levelling any accusations of that at any contributers on her). If you can't get into character and appreciate the joy of building a narrative and take the occasional unbalanced thrashing, where you never really stood a chance and come out of it proud of the way your boys made the best of the shit situation they found themselves in, this is probably not the game for you. It's about telling your gang's story and the crazy shit that goes on in the underhive, and for me, makes a very welcome change of pace from the competitive scene, which at my age can be a bit tiresome - as enjoyable as it was in my younger days.
 

TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
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Dec 29, 2017
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You say competitive, but wouldn't that be more of a matter of availability and cost? I never intended this discussion to be about competitiveness.
 

MrAndersson

Gang Hero
Sep 18, 2018
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Halmstad, Sweden
I've never, in 25 years of gaming and being involved with the hobby, seen so many people posting in a forum about a game that they actively hate.

I come from a competitive background and used to be heavily involved in tournaments - even came 6th out of 450 people, one year at a GW 40k Grand Tournament many moons ago and have been involved with loads of different games systems - Kill Team, Epic Armageddon, Drop Zone Commander to name a few and I happen to LOVE Necromunda.

Yes, it's a bit of a hot mess at times rules wise but it's supposed to be a fairly fast and loose sandbox, not a slick, streamlined tournament game and that's one of the things I love about it. It's not a game for people with no self control and a win at all cost mentality (Not that I'm levelling any accusations of that at any contributers on her). If you can't get into character and appreciate the joy of building a narrative and take the occasional unbalanced thrashing, where you never really stood a chance and come out of it proud of the way your boys made the best of the shit situation they found themselves in, this is probably not the game for you. It's about telling your gang's story and the crazy shit that goes on in the underhive, and for me, makes a very welcome change of pace from the competitive scene, which at my age can be a bit tiresome - as enjoyable as it was in my younger days.
It sounds like you are saying that because the narrative is good, it's ok that the rules are a mess. If that's the case, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

I don't think anyone here hates the game. What they are unhappy about is the fact that the game developers were too lazy to write clear and concise rules.

Pointing out that the rules contain lots of ambiguities and contradictions is not hating, it is justified critique.