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N18 Death-Maiden Skills

megasaxon

Juve
Sep 24, 2020
18
2
13
Hi all,

Just wanted to get your thoughts on the best starting skill to take on a Death-Maiden?

My first thought was Spring Up so she can charge from prone/pinned. But then I thought, a DM doing an 18" Sprint could really spook the opponent. The issue with Sprint before the DMs came out was that a Champion would sprint away from other fighters, and then not be hard enough to handle herself on her own. The DM is tougher and has a 6" move, making it more viable. Anyway, they were my thoughts - what do you think?

Cheers
 

Heart of Storm

Gang Champion
Mar 8, 2019
417
536
103
Sprint can be useful to run her down the board, provided you can get her into cover on the far end. An experienced player will try to at least pin her before she can get a charge off so positioning is key. As such I would consider Sprint more situational as it helps her get into position but doesn't help her initiate a fight.

Spring Up helps the Maiden with her mobility AND lets her mitigate pinning significantly, this skill will help you more consistently then Sprint, and opens up more tactical options (the cheesy but effective move, dive for cover, followed by spring up the following turn)

The only starting skill id consider besides Spring Up as a starting skill for a Maiden is the finesse one that makes swords versatile, as again it lets your gal perform her main role (murdering fools in melee) more reliably - but honestly I still think Spring Up is the auto pick for effectiveness
 

megasaxon

Juve
Sep 24, 2020
18
2
13
Thanks for your thoughts.

When I posted originally, I hadn't realised that she could start with a Finesse skill, so I will explore those. Does seem like, boringly, Spring Up is just the best across the board!
 

Spiral9

Juve
Oct 29, 2019
27
44
23
I put the one that gives her reach on swords and knives for a bit of extra range. Spring up may be better if we're being honest, but it's so easy to fall for that syren song and end up with a whole gang of ladies springing up everywhere!

The disengage skill looks interesting enough to mention, also.
 

Heart of Storm

Gang Champion
Mar 8, 2019
417
536
103
See my issue with disengage is that there are so few models a Death Maiden won't instagib in melee for it to be worth it, maybe if she hits an Ambot or an Ogryn leader...
 

MrAndersson

Gang Hero
Sep 18, 2018
585
398
68
Halmstad, Sweden
Instead of using Disengage to charge in, hit them and jump back out, you could just go for Combat virtuoso and hit them from 3" away with no test required. And as an added bonus, you extend your charge range.

But, as HoS pointed out, Spring up is THE skill for melee oriented Eschers. Without it, your opponent can just pin you every turn and you will never get into close combat. And it helps with action economy too.
 

baxio

Ganger
Dec 7, 2019
58
9
8
I like Death Maidens with two Swords, chem synth and Weapon Finesse which makes the swords versatile. Apart from brutes, I think the toughest fighters are toughness 4, so unless they are wearing a respirator that's a 50:50 chance of rolling an injury dice, which is increased by the chem synth and they also re-roll on a natural one. You should be getting a couple of injury dice rolled with a charge, and one of them is likely to produce seriously injured or out of action making them pretty lethal. And if it doesn't, you attacked with a versatile weapon so no reaction attacks!
 

Spiral9

Juve
Oct 29, 2019
27
44
23
Yeah that's pretty much what I took, baxio (no chem synth but it's too of my to buy list).

And then of course I drew ogryns in the first campaign week!
 
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AshFall

Juve
Jul 20, 2020
28
13
13
I like Death Maidens with two Swords, chem synth and Weapon Finesse which makes the swords versatile. Apart from brutes, I think the toughest fighters are toughness 4, so unless they are wearing a respirator that's a 50:50 chance of rolling an injury dice, which is increased by the chem synth and they also re-roll on a natural one. You should be getting a couple of injury dice rolled with a charge, and one of them is likely to produce seriously injured or out of action making them pretty lethal. And if it doesn't, you attacked with a versatile weapon so no reaction attacks!

This sounds interesting, but how does a respirator enter into it? Really curious, I might be missing something :).
 

baxio

Ganger
Dec 7, 2019
58
9
8
This sounds interesting, but how does a respirator enter into it? Really curious, I might be missing something :).

No, I'm the one that's wrong. Respirator is just for gas, so ignore that. So yeah, highly likely to roll an injury dice with toxin and a chem synth unless they have decent armour or toughness 5
 
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TrexPushups

Ganger
Apr 20, 2017
100
76
28
Memphis TN
I'm going with combat virtuoso for the versatile on her melee weapons. I really like spring up though since it would encourage the enemy to keep shooting my toughest fighter even after they pin her.
 

Spiral9

Juve
Oct 29, 2019
27
44
23
As an after-action report: my combat virtuoso death maiden with x2 stiletto swords did well in her initial outing.

Due to her range she was able to lurk behind cover denying the enemy some prime shooting spots, and then when they moved in she could make a long charge and murder a plasmagun-wielding champ. She then took a charge from the orlock leader, who sadly had a power weapon so shecouldn't parry - even then, though, she lasted two turns before repeated mining implement to the head took her down.

I think not going with Spring Up made her much more interesting to play, actually. She became an assassin as opposed to a beatstick. That was the first game of the campaign too, so I didn't have access to toxin upgrades; I think if I'd have had those then the orlock leader wouldn't have survived her reaction attacks!

TLDR: combat vituoso plays very differently to spring up, but was both viable and fun.
 

megasaxon

Juve
Sep 24, 2020
18
2
13
Interesting how you say Combat Virtuoso made her more interesting to play.

I actually opted for Acrobatic for my DM starting skill. This was in a large skirmish game where we were testing out new gang builds, and my DM was using two venom claws (for the -2 AP and extra attack). She managed to survive a demo charge, then a charge from an Orlock Arms Master, somehow, and swiftly dispensed with both the AM and the Wrecker than threw the charge. She then spent the next couple of turns flanking the enemy gang and was approaching the Servitor heavy bolter dude, who was holding his own at the back. The only time Acrobatic came into play, was when the enemy positioned a ganger between the DM and the servitor dude, and I would have charged right through the ganger if I'd won priority that turn (but I didn't and she was shot to bits).

So yeah, I would think the use of Acrobatic would only present itself 0-1 times per game, which isn't that handy. The way I could see it being used is charging key characters who are screened by other fighters (and running straight through barricades, but that's pretty situational).

Rest assured, I am keen to try Combat Virtuoso in the next bout for those tasty long range charges.
 

Spiral9

Juve
Oct 29, 2019
27
44
23
That's interesting, because I'm thinking of taking acrobatic on her as her first or second upgrade! I think combat virtuoso plus acrobatic will make for a lethal yet fluffy assassin type.

...I may also dose her up with hyper~
 

megasaxon

Juve
Sep 24, 2020
18
2
13
Hyper looks insanely good when used on a DM!

I'm a bit confused as to whether her movement stat increases to 8 (16 double move), or she simply adds 2 to whatever move she makes (so 8 standard move, 14 double). What's your take?
 

Galtarr

Gang Hero
Mar 1, 2017
943
1,605
118
Hyper looks insanely good when used on a DM!

I'm a bit confused as to whether her movement stat increases to 8 (16 double move), or she simply adds 2 to whatever move she makes (so 8 standard move, 14 double). What's your take?
16, it states move characteristic (I.e. move stat). Also nothing stops you making to single move actions. Though it does mean with hyper sprint would be 24" 😱.
 
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DGB81

Juve
Mar 4, 2021
14
8
13
I think combat virtuoso, plus sprint, plus combat drugs is a good approach. If she's using frenzon, then spring up isn't so important as she gets nerves of steel with a good cool stat.
You could also give the gang queen overseer to help the death maiden pull off huge charges in one turn. She'd be like the Jain Zar of Necromunda.
 

megasaxon

Juve
Sep 24, 2020
18
2
13
A 24" sprint would be insane. I could imagine it being very useful for intimidation of the opposing gang - have her sprint down one side of the board and just lurk there, blocking off a potential avenue for the opposing gang to go down. If the gang sends fighters to engage her, great - easy kills; if they don't and decide to change course, then she can just sprint right back to the action elsewhere on the board.

What are your thoughts on using Hyper from the start of the battle, or having another ganger administer dose? Advantage of the first option is it's always on, the second is it might surprise the opponent, if they haven't studied your gang list (which is not what my gaming group tends to do, to keep suspense high).
 

Galtarr

Gang Hero
Mar 1, 2017
943
1,605
118
I think combat virtuoso, plus sprint, plus combat drugs is a good approach. If she's using frenzon, then spring up isn't so important as she gets nerves of steel with a good cool stat.
You could also give the gang queen overseer to help the death maiden pull off huge charges in one turn. She'd be like the Jain Zar of Necromunda.
Not sure overseer works like that. Or at least it causes arguments in our group.

Because group activation and overseer have fairly short ranges. The argument goes if you activate the charging fighter activates first she's then out of overseer range. If you overseer her first she's no longer in range for group activation. I'm not certain on this ruling but it's definitely been argued locally.

Though to be fair it does say you nominate fighters before any individual fighters are activated. But it also says at start of leaders activation?

All I know is it's been a cause of contention.
 

DGB81

Juve
Mar 4, 2021
14
8
13
I can see why people wouldn't like a death maiden sprinting and charging across the board like that but IMO overseer and group activation can be used that way. Is it any more powerful than using a champ with fast shot and a leader with overseer to allow the champ to shoot 4 times? The problem is overseer, it allows shenanigans.
Overseer and group activation are both declared when you activate the leader, it doesn't need to be within 3" after you start moving gangers. Otherwise, what happens if you group activate the leader and then move the leader first, so that she's more than 3" from the gangers she group activated?
If a group wants to house rule things differently that's up to them.