N18 "Deceit" and "Seize the Initiative"

[Voyao]

There are two cards here - "Seize the Initiative" and "Deceit". Wordings:

Seize the Initiative - "Play this card at the beginning of any round, before rolling for Priority. You immediately take Priority this turn without any dice being rolled."

Deceit - "Play this gang tactic during the Priority phase of any round, after Roll for Priority, but before Ready Fighters. You may immediately reverse the results of the Priority roll. In other words, you may choose to take Priority if your opponent won the roll or you may choose to give your opponent Priority if you won the roll."

The situation - the beginning of a new round, the initiative phase. Before rolling the dices, Player A uses "Seize the Initiative". Player B wants to use "Deceit" to take priority for himself and cancel the effect of the first card. Can player B do it?

 

[Torahn]

Card A says use it before Priority is rolled. Card B says use it after Priority is rolled. To me that means yes, as A has to be used first, someone can "reverse" its result - as it forces them to seize priority, but the second card says whoever has priority loses it.

...But what are the chances of these two cards ever being played against each other unless players go out of their way to do this?

 

[Voyao]

Card A says use it before Priority is rolled. Card B says use it after Priority is rolled. To me that means yes, as A has to be used first, someone can "reverse" its result - as it forces them to seize priority, but the second card says whoever has priority loses it.

...But what are the chances of these two cards ever being played against each other unless players go out of their way to do this?

I played this weekend and this happened.

But if we read the wordings carefully, "Seize the Initiative" tells us that the player using this card takes the priority "without any dice being rolled". "Deceit" tells us to reverse the ROLL RESULT. How can you reverse something that didn't happen?

 

[Torahn]

You can try and interpret the rules as written or rules as intended. Here it seems the intention of both is to operate on changing the Priority. That both cards were written without taking the specific wording of one another seems more likely than one being written to specifically be exceptions to the another. So a player arguing that their card can't be overruled by a card that's intent is to overrule Priority because of an oversight in the wording seems not in the spirit of the game - or at least not supportive to the amount of House Ruling necessary to play the game smoothly.

 

[TopsyKretts]

You can try and interpret the rules as written or rules as intended. Here it seems the intention of both is to operate on changing the Priority. That both cards were written without taking the specific wording of one another seems more likely than one being written to specifically be exceptions to the another. So a player arguing that their card can't be overruled by a card that's intent is to overrule Priority because of an oversight in the wording seems not in the spirit of the game - or at least not supportive to the amount of House Ruling necessary to play the game smoothly.

That's right, tactics cards is basically a cheap way to keep the content flow running. A lot of ideas are recycled ad nauseam.

 

[Voyao]

You can try and interpret the rules as written or rules as intended. Here it seems the intention of both is to operate on changing the Priority. That both cards were written without taking the specific wording of one another seems more likely than one being written to specifically be exceptions to the another. So a player arguing that their card can't be overruled by a card that's intent is to overrule Priority because of an oversight in the wording seems not in the spirit of the game - or at least not supportive to the amount of House Ruling necessary to play the game smoothly.

It seems to me that it was so intended. As it is.

Because "Seize the Initiative" is a strong and powerful card that does not need additional buffs. And then... the creator makes a card that surpasses "Seize the Initiative" in every way, due to the ability to decide post-factum, not before Roll for Priority, and you still want to say that with all this it additionally counters "Seize the Initiative"? It would be some very strong imbalance

 

[Torahn]

My group just uses tactics cards to turn the lights off for one turn or get an extra attack...

 

[Voyao]

My group just uses tactics cards to turn the lights off for one turn or get an extra attack...

Lucky you)

We play by Goonhamer rules - https://www.goonhammer.com/necromunday-tactics-cards-which-ones-are-good-and-how-to-use-them/

Nacht Ghul who charged through the wall and cut your fighters for 280 points. With no way for you to do anything about it. Mm. So funny

 

[TopsyKretts]

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