N18 Delaque Gang Advice please

SirCuitous

New Member
Jul 11, 2019
3
1
13
Hi everyone. I was wondering if I could have some critique on my draft Delaque gang to be used in a Dominion campaign. I am relatively inexperienced at Necromunda so any assistance would be welcome. The campaign will be a mix of Zone Mortalis and Sector Mechanicus. The primary battles will be Mechanicus so I have built with that in mind. I quite fancied a Meltagun but was limited on points. Also I have made sure all of them have a melee weapon because I don’t want to lose people for want of one and they are only 5 credits for an autopistol.

The draft build is:

Leader – total 160 credits
Mesh armour (5 credits net)
Autopistol 5cr
Flechette Pistol 30cr
Overseer (to be used on the fast shot champion)

Champion 1 – total 200 credits
Mesh armour (5 credits net)
Autopistol 5cr
Long Rifle 3cr
Fast Shot

Champion 2 – total 200 credits
Mesh armour (5 credits net)
Autopistol 5cr
Long Rifle 30 cr
Marksman

Ganger 1 – total 170 credits
Autopistol 5cr
Web Gun 115cr
Flak Armour (free)

Ganger 2 – total 70 credits
Autopistol 5cr
Autogun 15cr
Flak Armour (free)

Ganger 3 – total 85 credits
Autopistol 5cr
Shotgun (Scatter, Solid) 30cr
Flak Armour (free)

Ganger 4 – total 70 credits
Autopistol 5cr
Smoke Grenade 15cr
Flak Armour (free)

Juve – total 45 credits
Autopistol 5cr
Smoke Grenade 15cr

The idea is to have the Champions and Leader at a distance picking off targets, a gun line of 3 Gangers and a Ganger and a Juve to lay down smoke where necessary and also the Juve to objective grab if possible. I realise I am missing out on the multi activation and may be better swapping the guns of Champion 2 with the Webgun Ganger but I lose the Marksman doing this. I also am a bit concerned my Juve has no armour so may be best dropping the shotgun for another autogun to get armour.

Thanks in advance.
 

Baffo

Gang Champion
Aug 2, 2018
265
498
73
Ljubljana
I assume your group made some House rules about 'selling starting armor' from fighters, because base rules taking the Flak armor off the characters, selling it and giving them Mesh would not be only 5 creds cost increase.
In rating the Mesh armor would be 15 points each (removing the starting Flak armor does not reduce the cost/rating of the fighters).
In credits, when you sell any item you generally do not gain the full value, but it is always reduced by D6x10 creds to a min of 5 creds, meaning that even if your group allows for selling starting armors, you'd only get 5 creds per piece of armor so the Net cost increase should be at least 10 creds on each character.
Talking about fighter costs: the champs as equipped are not 200 creds each, they should be cheaper than the leader, so double check your math there (or alternatively you forgot to list some extra equipment like Infrared sights maybe?).

Anyway, Armor swapping aside, I would not recommend going for the 'all sniper characters' battle-plan. One Fast shot sniper champ is fine and a good option to be Overseered, but that should not be your only 'plan', because random scenario deployments can easily screw up your starting positioning and break up your preferred 'combo'.
Also I would suggest that Overseer on the Webgun ganger (to allow him/her to double activate to Run 15'' and Web 8'' on an unexpecting group of enemy fighters) might be a much scarier/more powerful combo than getting up to 4 shots from 1 champ (keep in mind that the first shot will Pin the enemy target, which might drop him out of sight or at least cause you an additional -1 to hit if said target is in Long range, so in actual play it will be quite rare for you to get the 3-4 shots you might expect from the combo on paper).
I may even add that if you were to give Hip shooting to the 2nd champ and arm him with the Webgun you can extend the running Web combo to 28'' threat range (rather than 'just' 23'' with the ganger webber).

Now if it turns out you actually have more credits to work with (because of the champs cost mistake) I would advise beefing up the guns on the gangers (especially those armed only with autopistols). Personally I favor Shotguns (if you want proper damage-dealing guns) or Lasguns (if you want more accurate guns) to be upgraded with Hotshot laspacks after the first game.

Hope that helps some.
Cheers!
 
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TabulaRasa

Gang Champion
Jul 26, 2018
476
403
73
Stockholm
In general I’d go for the main armament and a few gadgets to make it work in a starting gang and then leaving unnecessary costs to the times when I actually have a few c to spare.

This is even more important if your gaming group haven’t house ruled that your allowed to switch out weapons on fighters.

You’re paying 30 c for just the back up auto pistols. That’s about the cost to upgrade the web gun to a melta.

I’m not a big fan of putting a champion with a long rifle coupled with something like marksman or fast shot. It’s a mediocre weapon in itself, and the multiplier from those skills doesn’t necessarily make up for it. The strength of the long rifle is the range and acc bonus on lr, so it’s best used imo together with overwatch and an infra sight. With a single BS increase your then going to be able to stop heavy weapons from firing, overseer from going off or a potentially painful charge on a 2+. Make the rifle master crafted and you have a re roll. This is bang for the buck.

If you prefer the more direct shooting skills for a champion then go for a better weapon like a plasma or melta. Even a grav gun can have its uses, but is probably somewhat of a mix between a overwatch long rifle and a grenade launcher (it also ignores saves if I’m not mistaken!).

As a more directed comment to your list I’d definitely switch the web gun to one of your champions and give them the run and gun skill (or whatever it’s called). Together with overseer you have an effective threat range of 28” or one shot at 18” and another a further 18” away - that’s horrific! The long rifle will do almost as good in the hands of a ganger. Especially after getting them an infra sight.
 

almic85

Gang Hero
Oct 30, 2014
882
1,387
113
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
I agree pretty much with Baffo and Tabula.

The long rifle is a pretty crap gun and is usually a waste of a special weapon slot. If you really want to use on then it can be paired with overwatch and an infrasight to make it an effective board control tool, but other than that it’s pretty ordinary.

Webguns on a champion with Hip Shooting is fantastic. Even better if you team him with an overwatch leader so that you can run in and web a target in one turn, then charge him and take him OOA in the second.

Alternatively you can use it so that he runs out and shoots a group of gangers, then retreats back to safety if needed.

I’d also just drop all of the autopistol back ups. They just aren’t that good and will take up a slot that could be better used with almost any other weapon.

I’d also drop the Juve and use the extra credits on anything else. Juves are pretty bad and if you are playing a Dominion campaign you will end up getting a few from your settlement anyway.

Edit: I should also say if you really want to be a right arse you can downgrade the webgun to a web pistol and it will do the same job against all the gangs except for Goliaths, but for significantly less credits.
 
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SirCuitous

New Member
Jul 11, 2019
3
1
13
Wow. I was somewhat off the mark with my start build. Thank you for your comments. The comment about them being somewhat of a one trick pony is certainly something I want to avoid. I had put infra sights on the champions but forgot to list them so that is why my maths was off somewhat. We don’t have a house rule about selling starting equipment so I’ve reverted to the flak armour. We do have a rule that allows us to sell weapons and re-equip though.

I have removed the autopistols on all except the leader (at the moment) however I am rather nervous about getting into close combat (not my choice) and not having a close combat weapon.

I have reworked the build based on the points raised and currently have 10 points left. Apart from the general question of what do you think, I have some specific ones:
Is it worth having any photo goggles, infra sights or smoke grenades?
I can’t afford a special weapon for the ganger that is allowed one – is that an issue?
Am I wrong to be worried about close combat?
Also I am not sure about the shotgun instead of autogun; shotgun is twice as expensive and the autogun has longer range (which I will need if I want to avoid close combat) and rapid fire.

The revised build is:

Leader – total 155 credits
Flak armour (0cr)
Autopistol 5cr
Flechette Pistol 30cr
Overseer (to be used on the hip shooting champion)

Champion 1 – total 220 credits
Flak armour (free)
Web Gun 115cr
Hip Shooting

Champion 2 – total 295 credits
Flak armour (free)
Meltagun 135cr
Photo-goggles 20cr
Infra-sight 35cr
Overwatch

Ganger 1 – total 80 credits
Shotgun (Scatter, Solid) 30cr
Flak Armour (free)

Ganger 2 – total 65 credits
Autogun 15cr
Flak Armour (free)

Ganger 3 – total 80 credits
Shotgun (Scatter, Solid) 30cr
Flak Armour (free)

Ganger 4 – total 95 credits
Shotgun (Scatter, Solid) 30cr
Flak Armour (free)
Smoke Grenade 15cr
Flak Armour (free)

Hopefully I have my maths and typing correct this time :)
 

almic85

Gang Hero
Oct 30, 2014
882
1,387
113
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
Champion 2 doesn’t need an infrasight and photogoggles. Pick one or the other. I’d look at changing his skill as well as overwatch works better with longer range weapons.
Both infiltrate and hip shooting would work well with him.

With three shotgun gangers you could probably look at dropping one of them to an autogun or lasgun (depending on your preference) and saving 15 credits.

Those 15 creds plus the 20 saved on photogoggles and the 10 already in your stash gives you enough to afford a web gauntlet (which is your best close combat weapon) or two stiletto knives (which are your second best close combat weapon). Hell if you drop the auto pistol from your leader you can take one of each.
 

TabulaRasa

Gang Champion
Jul 26, 2018
476
403
73
Stockholm
Don’t be too worried of CC, your about as good as most other gangs at it, and one might argue that since delaque, due to their lack of long range big guns from start, are a mid to short range gang to begin with - it might even be worth investing somewhat into a small CC contingent. Don’t forget that the web gauntlet and stilletto is both quite decent options! Especially coupled with flechettes (a champion with to master crafted flechettes, chem synth and gunslinger is tempting), but apart from this option side arms aren’t exactly a go to alternative for a cc option since it’s only going to benefit one of your attacks.

Infra sight is king on a high value option if you can afford it from start and combines very well with smoke grenades since you yourself can see through it. I would leave the photo goggles at home in the beginning though. They still cost loads and unless you’re in a competitive environment you’re not going to make a lot of friends if you’re spamming the tactic card to shut off the lights.

If you’re still very worried over CC then consider either the long rifle w overwatch option or one with a grav gun. Both are excellent for pinning, which is most of the time all you’ll ever need.

You don’t need both photo goggles and infra sight on the same fighter. It’s just a points sink and they’ll do basically the same thing. I wouldn’t bother with overwatch for the melta champ either and would probably much rather prefer a skill like hip shooting here as well, or maybe even fast shot.

Shotguns are expensive but synergizes well with the short range options of your champions. The higher strength and extra damage more than makes up for the lack of range and RF.

I would try to find the funds for a fifth ganger if I where you.
 

Baffo

Gang Champion
Aug 2, 2018
265
498
73
Ljubljana
Wow. I was somewhat off the mark with my start build. Thank you for your comments. The comment about them being somewhat of a one trick pony is certainly something I want to avoid. I had put infra sights on the champions but forgot to list them so that is why my maths was off somewhat. We don’t have a house rule about selling starting equipment so I’ve reverted to the flak armour. We do have a rule that allows us to sell weapons and re-equip though.

I have removed the autopistols on all except the leader (at the moment) however I am rather nervous about getting into close combat (not my choice) and not having a close combat weapon.

I have reworked the build based on the points raised and currently have 10 points left. Apart from the general question of what do you think, I have some specific ones:
Is it worth having any photo goggles, infra sights or smoke grenades?
I can’t afford a special weapon for the ganger that is allowed one – is that an issue?
Am I wrong to be worried about close combat?
Also I am not sure about the shotgun instead of autogun; shotgun is twice as expensive and the autogun has longer range (which I will need if I want to avoid close combat) and rapid fire.
About your 'fears' on Close combat: generally most gangs do not voluntarily get into close combats, except with Melee specialised fighters or just to Coup-de-grace a seriously injured enemy. If an enemy melee specialist manages to charge any of your fighters, he/she will most likely at least Seriously injure your charged fighter and take them OoA with the free Coup-de-grace on the charge anyway, so the Autopistol for CC makes no difference.
If you were to charge an enemy, while armed only with an Autopistol for CC, you'd get the 1 sidearm shot (which might be 1-3 shots depending on the Rapid fire die roll) but any extra attacks gained from Charging or similar would be made as 'Unarmed attacks' with your fists, so all you're getting from having only Autopistols for CC is Rapid fire for 1 attack and all these attacks will be S3 with no AP anyway (you do not get the extra attack for using 2 melee weapons, because you have in fact only 1 sidearm; bare fists do not count as a second weapon).
Usually Sidearms for CC make sense when combined with an actual CC weapon (so you get the cheap +1 Attack from having 2 weapons), but by them self are not much of an improvement (unless we're talking Bolt pistols or Plasma pistols, aka sidearms that cost 40+ creds).
 
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