N18 Delaque... Searching for advice

[Rico_87]

Hi everyone, i'm approaching to my second necromunda dominion campaign and this time i will go with delaque. They seems to me a very difficult gang so any advice will be good!

Here is my starting 1k list:

Master of shadow: MC long rifle, mesh overwatch
Phantom: webgun mesh infiltrate
Nacht gul: serpent's fang mesh spring up
Ghost specialist shotgun
Ghost autopistol
Psy Gheist stub gun
Shadow web pistol
Shadow Web pistol
Whisper merchant

I would like to say sorry in advance because english is not my first language and i'm trying to type without google translate

 

[Hobo86]

check the posts by @HugeSamples , as he is quite knowledgable about Delaque

a small observation; maybe including a few lasguns to pin hostiles can be a worthwhile investment

 

[Rico_87]

ok thanks!

 

[HugeSamples]

I have been summoned!

You are correct Delaque are hard to play well. They're often out gunned and will lose fire fights. You need to play carefully, otherwise they fold quickly. In general your Master of Shadows, Phantoms, and Nacht-Ghuls are going to be doing your heavy lifting.

Nothing is jumping out at me as "wrong" with you list. However, you do have 3 web weapons. I'd make sure your soon to be former friends are ok with that. That said using other weapon will certainly make your list "weaker". Outside of you're web weapons and Nacht-Ghul you don't have too much going on firepower wise.

I like Psy-Gheists, however they will be a "dead" model on the table until they get some experience (2-3 Willpower upgrades) and a Wyrm or two. What whisper did you give them?

Some things to think about:
- Is you group "power gaming"?
- Are you guys going for more of narrative campaign (the recommended way to play Necromunda)?

If the latter consider giving each model a unique "personality" rather than duplicated load outs.

Some changes to consider:
- Drop one of the web pistols shadows, and consider making a Ghost with a nice pistol like a Flechette, Plasma, or Grav pistol.
- Your leader is your only long range weapon. Consider adding a Lasgun or Autogun Ghost. They won't be "dangerous", but they can lay down some supporting fire.
- Long Rifles are "fine", but I've never been super impressed with them. I tend to put one on a Specialist Ghost if I want to keep them cheap and give my leader a spicier gun. A Grav gun with overwatch is pretty dirty .
- If you need more credits, consider downgrading your Nacht-Ghul to the Shiver Sword. While not the elite murder machine that is the Claw Ghul, it excels at punishing out-of-position gangers and juves.
- Whisper Merchants are nice and will pay for themselves, but if you need those credits for boys and toys consider dropping them.

With Delaque it's pretty easy to overspend on weapons, and part of the trick is finding the balance of boys to toys with your starting credits. That said I'm hardly the authority on Delaque, but I try my best .

Was there something in particular you were having trouble with?

 

[Vonvilkee]

Another not a delaque player bit... per the most recent FAQ it is harder to get xp from web weapons as that "serious injury" it causes doesn't count for the xp. They are good but kinda short sighted for long term play as a result.

 

[HugeSamples]

Another not a delaque player bit... per the most recent FAQ it is harder to get xp from web weapons as that "serious injury" it causes doesn't count for the xp. They are good but kinda short sighted for long term play as a result.

This a good point. I had forgotten about this change.

Something fun you can do (fun, not necessarily good) is give a Master of Shadows the Mentor skill and a Webgun, then have a model follow him around that you want to power level (such as a Psy-Gheist). I.e., the model you want to levels coup de grâce the webbed enemy while being within mentor range. You can even do it as a group activation.

 

[Rico_87]

Hi @HugeSamples and thank you for your time and expertise. I've been busy at work so osrry for the late reply.

I still have a lot of concerns about a "good" list. My group is a littile bit competitive but they will be fine with 3 web weapons. To be fair i don't like that choice but web seems very powerful. My biggest problem is with psyker powers: i totally agree with you about psy gheist, it really takes a lot of xp & accessory (wrym) to work properly

But on the other hand, I also don't want to give powers to any champion, both because I'm afraid of the dangers of the warp and because I think they're stronger in their actions. It would be a shame, however, to completely lose the faction ability.I also have a lot of doubts about the long rifle regarding weapons. It seems like a must-have for Delaques.

This is my new list idea

Leader: plasma gun, mesh evade (grav gun seems interesting, but i think a classic plasma is better. i really don't see anything good in a flechette pistol plus i don't like to have a leader too close to the enemy)
Phantom web gun mesh infiltrate (pretty sure on this)
NG: serpent's fang mesh spring up (pretty sure on this)
Ghost specialist shotgun
Ghost x2 autopistol
Psy gheist stub gun spatial psychosis (maybe replace this with a ganger and give a power to the leader? If so, what do you think is best?)
Shadow web pistol mesh smoke grenade
Whisper merchant (at 30 cr it seems very, very powerful, helping to have credits right from the first game)

thank you for your patience

 

[HugeSamples]

• Master of Shadows: seems fine.
• Phantom: seems fine.
• Nacht Ghul: seems fine.
• Specialist: seems fine. You can really do whatever you want here, a Long Rifle would be decent too.
• Ghosts: is this...
  • two Ghosts with one auto pistol each? (this is fine)
  • one Ghost with two auto pistols? (this is less fine)
• Psy Gheist: The whispers generally aren't very good. Spatial Psychosis is the most universally useful power. However, you have two web weapons and a Nacht-Ghul. You might get better mileage out of Penumbral Mirror. I wouldn't bother making your leader a Psyker, he's more useful shooting with his good gun.
• Shadow: seems fine. I'd move the Smoke grenade to the auto pistol ghost, the shadow is better off using its good gun.
• Whisper Merchant: seems fine.

 

[Rico_87]

• Master of Shadows: seems fine.
• Phantom: seems fine.
• Nacht Ghul: seems fine.
• Specialist: seems fine. You can really do whatever you want here, a Long Rifle would be decent too.
• Ghosts: is this...
  • two Ghosts with one auto pistol each? (this is fine)
  • one Ghost with two auto pistols? (this is less fine)
• Psy Gheist: The whispers generally aren't very good. Spatial Psychosis is the most universally useful power. However, you have two web weapons and a Nacht-Ghul. You might get better mileage out of Penumbral Mirror. I wouldn't bother making your leader a Psyker, he's more useful shooting with his good gun.
• Shadow: seems fine. I'd move the Smoke grenade to the auto pistol ghost, the shadow is better off using its good gun.
• Whisper Merchant: seems fine.

I've been looking into the grav gun and it doesn't look bad. I'll give it a try with the leader. Why don't you like the ganger with two guns? Anyway, thanks for the support, the list is almost ready!!

 

[HugeSamples]

Why don't you like the ganger with two guns?

I don't like it for 2 reasons.

1. Since this is a single Ghost, you only have seven fighters total in your gang. This is on the low side; you generally want to be around 8–10 fighters so that you aren't taking Bottle tests too quickly.

2. Twin Guns Blazing takes the Ghost from a 4+ to a 5+ to hit. In the open, this is a net gain, increasing the chance of landing at least one hit from 50% to 55.6%. However, on a board with realistic terrain, you’ll often be shooting into light cover. This pushes the requirement to a 6+, which actually reduces your success rate from 33.3% to 30.6%.

That said reason #1 is the primary reason, as you can choose to shoot one gun when the situation doesn't favor using 2 guns.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Another not a delaque player bit... per the most recent FAQ it is harder to get xp from web weapons as that "serious injury" it causes doesn't count for the xp. They are good but kinda short sighted for long term play as a result.

The Serious Injury change didn't dumb down Web weapons all that much. Instead it made all other weapons more dangerous.
A ganger available S4 template is still a good choice for that level of gang hitting power and essentially makes them a pseudo specialist.
The webgun itself for your specialists and higher is S5. That's heavy flamer level without Unwieldy. So better.
Where all Web weapons come into thier own is Ignoring Armour. That is very powerful at all levels l, short term or long term play). A kamikaze Shadow with web pistol has a very good chance of "wounding" that Van Saar Augmek in carapace and a last cannon taking them out of play and no longer a threat for a while at least. Cheaply (relatively). That alone is actually worth sacrificing instant XP gain. You may not instantly gain experience with the shot but the weapon locks down much more dangerous threats than itself quickly granting more survivability to your gang as a whole.
The "lack" of granting XP is also a bit of a fallacy. A Webbed figure counts for virtually all purposes as Seriously Injured. And is eligible for the Coup de Grace action which also ignore armour. Web someone and then charge them with another fighter and they get a Armour ignoring free kill. Target a cluster and because it's (Simple) you can get two. Or do it with the Web warrior themselves next turn in a charge, or this one with Overseer.
So you, the gang, still get the XP. Just another guy/girl gets it or your web warrior does with a little walking. Like Van Saar Rad weapons Web is a teamwork weapon.
Delaque Shadows and Psy-Gheists can farm XP and advances scarily quickly with one/two combos with a web warrior quickly disabling gang fighters and hierarchy models for easy pickings. With correct use of Web those prospects and Juves are, for an almost insanely low cost for the job, the most effective gang fighters in the game. You don't even need to arm the second one with much if anything (although a 5 credit stub or Autopistol wouldn't hurt for emergencies) to do a tonne of work. For the starting cost of 130 credits I have had two Shadows take down a total cost of over a 1000 credits worth of opponents gang assets in a single Campaign phase. Aside from a vicious Naght Ghul they were by far the most nasty asset in that gang. Kind of embarrassing for the master of shadows and Phantom.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I've been looking into the grav gun and it doesn't look bad. I'll give it a try with the leader.

The grav gun is one of my favourite shooting character weapons. Accuracy bonus at short range (for a Blast weapon actually hitting the target when opponents are close as well as likely allies is important). Blast 3" is always nice. Concussion ignores having to wound only requires a hit so a fighter hit will be vulnerable to I tests later (falls and I get knocked down tests are so much more nasty. It also imposes a large penalty to a vehicle targets Handling test.
Graviton pulse ignores all armour saves (awesome) targets fighter basic Strength (typically a low priority stat people don't often upgrade as melee weapons grant modifiers to them more readily) or a Vehicle toughness but they require to roll over theirs to avoid Body hits so tougher vehicles suffer more. All Body hits require a Handling test (which due to Concussion is at -2). It's a D2 weapon so two damage rolls give good odds of penetrating or catastrophic damage. A hit practically ensures the vehicle, even a heavy rig or Cargo 8-8, is at least Stalled, Stalled and loses a Hull point or loses a weapon and loses a Hull point (or 2) and Loses Control which can Roll even the largest vehicle Wreaking it.
Plus the Graviton pulse leaves Blast 3" movement slowing template which is just icing.
Its only "downside" is the low 18" range. But you can just move and shoot with it.

Why don't you like the ganger with two guns?

Me neither for a Ganger. See @HugeSamples reasons.
A Pair of Autopistol shots from a ganger that have little chance of hitting just aren't worth it. It basically makes the ganger worthless excepted for an extra body for Bottle tests and another XP for your opponent when they take them out.
For a Two Guns blasting figure you need to be able to rely on hitting (so high BS, i.e champions and leaders or a couple of advances in BS for gangers) accurate sidearms, and a 4" accuracy bonus is very short and hard hitting guns, which the native Autopistol is not.
Duel pistols is really a Champion or higher thing, especially with Gunfighter, or maybe a late stage ganger if they have a good pistol option like Bolt or Plasma at late game stages.
(The Telescopic sight can mitigate the Short range accuracy range of 4" but requires the Aim (basic) action which stops you moving and pistoleers need to be mobile to survive and you need one for every pistol you plan to use duel wielding to really work so gets a little pricey for the gunslinger).