N18 Delaque Starter list

[Sarkazym]

Coming back to Necromunda after 25 years. Going with Delaque since that's what I played back in 1st. I've been reading and watching videos, had some rules questions. Jumped in and got the BRB (N23), HoS, both Delaque Boxes, Dice and Cards. I've finished assembling the models and looking forward to playing this week. The Open-Casual Campaign has already started so I've decided to just jump in with a huge learning curve and figure things out the painful way.

The Strangers

Here are my thoughts, so any tips would be appreciated.
- Leader has the Long Rifle and Overseer to support the Gang rather than jump into the thick of it. Plan to have him run with Ghosts/Shadows depending on the game setup.
- Nacht-Ghul is pretty self explanatory. Auto-Pistol was just to use the last 5pts I had left-over.
- Phantom has the Web Gun because it appears to be a Delaque thing. Infiltrate to help me make sure he gets used effectively.
- Psy-Gheist. Last minute add-on as I was going to skip psykers knowing I could get em down the line with the other models. He's going to start out in a supporting role, right now I'm leaning toward 'Sight Blight', as the potential 8" Bubble off the Wyrm will handicap my opponent without crippling him. Utterance is the other one I'm interested in.
- Ghosts. After reading several debates of Autoguns vs. Lasguns I've decided to go with the Autoguns. I feel that Lasguns are about making shots count, but Autoguns are about making hits count. I'm not opposed to using Lasguns, but won't have the models until I decide to buy a second box. I thought about doing 1 of ea, but simply decided to keep it simple.
- Shadows. Taking advantage of the Dual Auto-Pistols cheap cost. I like how the Impossible shot mechanic works, and simply feel that the Dual Pistols will take advantage of that.

The extra models from the base box are a Shotgun (planned as 3rd Ghost before deciding to run the Gheist) and 2 Web Pistols (Planned as Shadows since that's what I saw them equipped with then found out how pricey it was).

Stratagems
I'm still not fully aware of how these things work yet. Either they aren't used, aren't worth talking about, or the feeling I'm getting is that it's a N23 addition to the rules. I've been watching 'Miniature Game Montage' batreps the most because they're quick and easy to follow. The system they use is similar to the one in the book, I think Goonhammer does 12. Pick 18 at gang creation then use that pool for scenarios. I've got a few that I definitely want, but wouldn't mind some suggestions to fill.
- Shape Shifting (HoS) **There is an interpretation thing that doesn't make sense to me at this time.
- Shifting Shadows (HoS) **I think this is HUGE for the Nacht-Ghul
- Deceit (HoS) **Seems really handy to have when absolutely need to go first, but also want to force the opponent to go first to start a domino chain of events
- Shooting at Shadows (HoS) **A 1x 2+inv save that stays around if it fails is too good to pass up. Would it include being Pinned?
- Adrenaline Surge **More Nacht Ghul Shenanigans
- Chain Attack **More Nacht Ghul Shenanigans

Any others to consider before finding fillers?

 

[HugeSamples]

Hello again . Let's dig in here...

Your leader seems to be suffering from role confusion. You have 2 models--the ghul and champion--worth using overseer on, yet they are unlikely to be anywhere near your leader since they are both infiltrating models. Trading your BS 3+ leader's actions to tell a BS 4+ ganger to fire their autogun is a bad value. If you want to go the overseer route you should equip your leader lightly and have models worth using overseer on. e.g. plasma gun champions, web pistol juves etc.

You've given him a long rifle which want to operate at ranges longer than the rest of your gang. You've also given him a web gauntlet, which if he's shooting his rifle he's unlikely to use.

You need to pick a range you want him to operate at and equip/skill him accordingly. For example, if you want to use the long rifle a better skill to take would be overwatch.

I'd recommend something like a plasma gun and maybe a flex skill like sprint (get him where he needs to be, or fake out your opponent on where you're going to be) on your leader.

Your Nacht-ghul seems fine, probably doesn't need the pistol but if you have extra credits why not.

Your champion seems fine, probably doesn't need the pistol but if you have extra credits why not.

Lose the flak armor on your psy-gheist. You can buy mesh armor for 5 credits more (lose one of the unnecessary pistols).

You forgot to recruit a specialist. You are allowed one specialist at gang creation. A webgun or a long rifle is a good choice on a specialist. The webgun negates his bad BS.

Lose the mesh armor on your gangers. Unlike oldmunda, your gangers are now your pawns.

2x pistols on juves is a trap at the start of the game. You have a statistically better chance to hit with one pistol on a 5+ than 2 pistols on a 6+.

Losing the 2x mesh armors, flak armor, 4x autopistols, dum-dum ammo, and webgauntlet will net you 100 credits. Enough to get your specialist and maybe a good gun.

 

[Sarkazym]

Made a few changes to clean up the Gang, then I'll comment.
- I didn't see that I had the Dum-Dum rounds, so I removed that.
- I upgraded the Gheist to Mesh Armor, and added it to the Gangers (For now).
* I'm not committed to the idea, so I'm happy to drop it. I just feel the most comfortable with this loadout.
- I'm happy to run with no Armor on any of my models if you think that might work. This is a throwback to 1st Ed and don't see getting much out of having Armor until later on. For now, I see the armor being more effective than adding 1-2 more models.

1) I don't feel the Leader is confused at all, more of a Jack of All Trades to act as my response to where the team needs him. I don't see shooting more than 24" being very common, but I see the need to have one model that does and the Leader was as good an option as any. If/when I do that, I see him commonly being the target of opposing Infiltrator style tactics, which is where the Web Gauntlet comes in. I Master Crafted it for when I do need that Long Shot, but all the Batreps I've watched it's not happening much beyond T2. The Long Rifle can still be used and has the Push Back, so it's not a bad weapon to use in the same band as the Gangers. Ranged shooting seems to be the Delaque disadvantage now, relying more on Stealth/Infiltrate/Whispers to get the job done. I don't see any Long Range Heavy weapon options like Delaque did in 1st so there isn't anything to build into later in the campaign. If I'm going up a more melee orientated Gang, then he's ready to jump in as well.

2) Yes, I'm still new but I don't see Overseer being used that often. I played around with idea of using Overwatch on him instead, but feel I'd get more opportunity from Overseer. What I'm reading though is that the Leader can't do anything else when using Overseer. If I had a Plasma Gun Specialist, then I could see him benefitting more like you suggested, and I did have a Plasma Gun Specialist before replacing him with the Gheist. I'm building a Plasma gun model out of my Core kit, so it's still an option. Overseer is there to attempt the Gheist tricks discussed on the other thread.

3) When I dropped the Armor, I was able to squeeze in another Ganger with a Long Rifle. I'd rather put another Ganger in there with a Shotgun. I was also comfortable putting Armor on the Leader, Phantom, and Nacht-Ghul, then using the points for a 3rd Shadow. I don't plan on making a 3rd model with Dual Pistols and would rather upgrade the existing Shadows to Web Pistol/Hand Flamer to get around their low BS. This is still an option with how I've built my models.

4) Keeping the Pistol on the Nacht-Ghul and Phantom for now. With 1 Web gun, I still want him to do something if the Ammo runs out. Same applies to the Nacht-Ghul, I'd rather have the option to do something if a Charge isn't likely. Chose Auto-Pistols over Stub Guns because of the Rapid Fire.

Dual Auto Pistols (This is the one I put a TON of thought into before committing to it) Please hear me out, and help me if I've got this wrong.

Yes, a single shot at 5+ is going to hit more than two 6's. I see that being in the BEST scenario possible, which I don't see that being too often. To my knowledge, only firing 1 Pistol is still an option, and I'm not required to shoot both. If that was my SOLE tactic, then there'd be no reason to take Autopistols over Stub Guns (Like the Gheist). I'm also aware that I'm starting with the N23 book and this appears to be a mechanic that might have changed from previous versions. It was the reading the 'Improbable Shot' mechanic that it started to make sense.

Any kind of modifiers are more than likely to take it down to 6's to hit. At this step, it's STILL better to use 1 Pistol over 2 and go for it. When the modifiers stack beyond that though the Dual shots become more attractive. You're fishing for 6's anyways, so the -1 from the Dual Pistols doesn't make a bit of difference. The Second Roll however, is off the Straight BS with NO modifiers at all (Not even bonuses). All of a sudden shooting into Combat, behind full Cover, becomes a slightly more significant threat.

Adding in the Auto-pistols Rapid Fire means that finally landing those hits are going to hurt whoever they manage to hit. I can even use the Pistols -1 to push it into Improbable Shot threshold after I get them a BS increase? The end result is I end up putting the 'Fortune Favors the Bold' ideology to work. That aside, the Chaos of it all is attractive enough to me to find it fun, and should land some killers stories to tell.

-----
I REALLY appreciate the feedback. It's good to see that you're questioning things I may or may not have thought of. Outside of Tactics Cards, I think I'm going to have to start putting models on the table. Looking forward to this week and my first game.

 

[HugeSamples]

Made a few changes to clean up the Gang, then I'll comment.
- I didn't see that I had the Dum-Dum rounds, so I removed that.
- I upgraded the Gheist to Mesh Armor, and added it to the Gangers (For now).
* I'm not committed to the idea, so I'm happy to drop it. I just feel the most comfortable with this loadout.
- I'm happy to run with no Armor on any of my models if you think that might work. This is a throwback to 1st Ed and don't see getting much out of having Armor until later on. For now, I see the armor being more effective than adding 1-2 more models.

1) I don't feel the Leader is confused at all, more of a Jack of All Trades to act as my response to where the team needs him. I don't see shooting more than 24" being very common, but I see the need to have one model that does and the Leader was as good an option as any. If/when I do that, I see him commonly being the target of opposing Infiltrator style tactics, which is where the Web Gauntlet comes in. I Master Crafted it for when I do need that Long Shot, but all the Batreps I've watched it's not happening much beyond T2. The Long Rifle can still be used and has the Push Back, so it's not a bad weapon to use in the same band as the Gangers. Ranged shooting seems to be the Delaque disadvantage now, relying more on Stealth/Infiltrate/Whispers to get the job done. I don't see any Long Range Heavy weapon options like Delaque did in 1st so there isn't anything to build into later in the campaign. If I'm going up a more melee orientated Gang, then he's ready to jump in as well.

2) Yes, I'm still new but I don't see Overseer being used that often. I played around with idea of using Overwatch on him instead, but feel I'd get more opportunity from Overseer. What I'm reading though is that the Leader can't do anything else when using Overseer. If I had a Plasma Gun Specialist, then I could see him benefitting more like you suggested, and I did have a Plasma Gun Specialist before replacing him with the Gheist. I'm building a Plasma gun model out of my Core kit, so it's still an option. Overseer is there to attempt the Gheist tricks discussed on the other thread.

3) When I dropped the Armor, I was able to squeeze in another Ganger with a Long Rifle. I'd rather put another Ganger in there with a Shotgun. I was also comfortable putting Armor on the Leader, Phantom, and Nacht-Ghul, then using the points for a 3rd Shadow. I don't plan on making a 3rd model with Dual Pistols and would rather upgrade the existing Shadows to Web Pistol/Hand Flamer to get around their low BS. This is still an option with how I've built my models.

4) Keeping the Pistol on the Nacht-Ghul and Phantom for now. With 1 Web gun, I still want him to do something if the Ammo runs out. Same applies to the Nacht-Ghul, I'd rather have the option to do something if a Charge isn't likely. Chose Auto-Pistols over Stub Guns because of the Rapid Fire.

Dual Auto Pistols (This is the one I put a TON of thought into before committing to it) Please hear me out, and help me if I've got this wrong.

Yes, a single shot at 5+ is going to hit more than two 6's. I see that being in the BEST scenario possible, which I don't see that being too often. To my knowledge, only firing 1 Pistol is still an option, and I'm not required to shoot both. If that was my SOLE tactic, then there'd be no reason to take Autopistols over Stub Guns (Like the Gheist). I'm also aware that I'm starting with the N23 book and this appears to be a mechanic that might have changed from previous versions. It was the reading the 'Improbable Shot' mechanic that it started to make sense.

Any kind of modifiers are more than likely to take it down to 6's to hit. At this step, it's STILL better to use 1 Pistol over 2 and go for it. When the modifiers stack beyond that though the Dual shots become more attractive. You're fishing for 6's anyways, so the -1 from the Dual Pistols doesn't make a bit of difference. The Second Roll however, is off the Straight BS with NO modifiers at all (Not even bonuses). All of a sudden shooting into Combat, behind full Cover, becomes a slightly more significant threat.

Adding in the Auto-pistols Rapid Fire means that finally landing those hits are going to hurt whoever they manage to hit. I can even use the Pistols -1 to push it into Improbable Shot threshold after I get them a BS increase? The end result is I end up putting the 'Fortune Favors the Bold' ideology to work. That aside, the Chaos of it all is attractive enough to me to find it fun, and should land some killers stories to tell.

-----
I REALLY appreciate the feedback. It's good to see that you're questioning things I may or may not have thought of. Outside of Tactics Cards, I think I'm going to have to start putting models on the table. Looking forward to this week and my first game.

Definitely experiment and find out what works for you.

Modern necromunda is really about having fighters that are "good at one thing" and I really think you need to think more deeply about what your leader is trying to do.

Is he support?

Is he long range?

Is he mid range?

Is he melee?

Eventually he can grow to cover more bases, but at the start it's better pick one and be good at that.

A psy-gheist is very much not worth giving your leader's actions to via overseer, especially with a power like sight blight. If you had an outcast power like hallucinations then maybe.

If you want to keep your leader as geared I strongly suggest you start looking at other skills. Like I've said before, the models that are worth giving your leader's actions to are going to be nowhere near him.

You also need to consider how you're going to get your psy-gheist experience. Right now I don't see an efficient way to level it out of its bad starting stats.

Improbable shots are, well, improbable. I wouldn't bank on those hitting at all.

You can still fire one pistol if you want, but at that point you're wasting credits on the second pistol which will be rarely used, if at all.

Twin guns blazing is a -1 modifier to both shots from the pistols (no shots in this game are "straight BS"). The shots are rolled at the same time, not in sequence, targeting the same model. You're going to need 6's on either or both dice to hit things in the open. Forget about hitting things in cover with it. As their BS increases it becomes better, buy the second pistol then. You might get lucky with rapid fire, but more often that not you're just sacrificing your juve for nothing.

 

[Sarkazym]

I struggle to see your point or find a specific use for the Leader. For Dedicated Range, the Phantoms cover that base. The Nacht-Ghuls are going to be better at Melee, so it's not necessary to kit him out for CC. Gheists start out as Psykers so they're already setup to become better than I could ever make the leader.

So I really don't understand the expectation when I feel the setup he has will give me the option to support the other 3 as needed. Let the Dedicated Roles do what they do best.

The Long Rifle when I need a 3rd Shooter, the Web Gauntlet for when he needs to act as a fighter. Overseer is there to compensate for the Gheist not getting his gimmick setup. Should the Concentrate+Sight Blight fail on his activation, I can attempt to get it setup on the turn I want it anyways.

I don't see Overseer being used much beyond that as the game will be in motion and he'll be needed in one of his other roles, or more likely the rest of the gang will need to move off and end up out of range. I don't see it being useful when he's going to stand around just to give another Gang member, worth it or not, a second action which will most likely leave him abandoned. I know Overseer is one of the best abilities out there, but I'm missing something or I don't see many opportunities to find it useful past turn 2.

The 'plan' is to take advantage of the Delaque quirk with Infiltration. So 'Mass Infiltration' will give me 3-5 models. I like the idea of not dedicating models early on. I'll have the flexibility to grant the Ghosts or Shadows on a game by game basis to support the other two.

That'll leave the Leader, Gheist, and 2 Gangers/Juves on the board as a combined support element. That leaves me with 3 models to Choir up the Gheist for an 8" Sight bubble off the Wyrm. Thats a HUGE area of Darkness that doesnt need LOS that my opponent can deal with, but has to plan for it. Hope to avoid the low Will by maintaining it after that. It's the best way I can see the Gheist being a member of the team without needed upgrades first.

I'd rather use 'Unremeberable Utterances'. Its down to 6" given a perfect setup which is still pretty decent. It's a Simple Action so would be easier to get back if I ever lose it but would be a reduced range. Main reason I'm not doing it is that you remind me that I need to still make it fun to play against, and I don't think a huge 12" mobile Action Nullifier is going to make me many friends. Especially if I activate it first to funnel my opponent around it, then Overseer it to move it late in the round.

Are you finding a clear shot with your Pistol armed Juves to rely on only needing 1? I'm not seeing it in batreps to leave me confident. Its not until you start hitting needing 7+ to hit with a Pistol that the second one becomes a better option. At that step, any other modifiers become irrelevant and two chances to roll a 6 become more important than a single 6 since you have to roll to hit again after you get a 6. That second roll doesn't have any modifiers apply to it.

The Pistols are 5 points that I'm only doing to 2 models. I don't see it as a waste. I've got the Convienient Armor on 3 models, a Mastercraft, Claws drop to a Sever, and 2 other Dedicated Backup Pistols that I can downgrade to find credits. That 70 right there which is enough to get a Ghost Specialist with a Long Rifle for a 9 model Gang. Dropping Both Long Rifles and rhe pistols isnt going to be enough to equip the specialist with a Plasma gun or something else to use Overseer on. Not much more I can do with that 10 points so I really don't understand how they're being wasted?

Not trying to be obtuse here, but you seem upset that I'm not running best option, while simultaneously telling me to not do it, so the other guy can have fun. I've made these adjustments based on the advice you've given me, even added a Gheist that I wasn't even looking at. I'm super grateful and feel MUCH more confident about where my team is at now than when I was when I started reading the rulebook.

So experience aside, I feel like there is some mechanic that I'm missing or rule that I'm getting wrong that you're not telling me because it's so common that I simply don't understand yet.

 

[HugeSamples]

Not upset, it's probably the bluntness of communication over a text medium. It naturally has a negative tone to it.

I'm simply trying to pass on some advice.

Overseer is a strong skill when, for example:
- use it on a Plasma Cannon model with the fast shot skill to get 4 plasma cannon shots. (this is one of the "unfun" uses).
- use it on a web gun/pistol to give them an extra move to get into position to web more targets than they would be able to reach otherwise.

Using it to give a psy-gheist an extra move is kind of meh. But give it a go, maybe I'm wrong.

You are putting a lot of stock into this psy-gheist doing work. Sight blight is not a smoke grenade, if the models aren't in the aura it doesn't effect them. i.e. it does not create an area of darkness that people can't shoot through. They can simply move out of the aura and shoot normally. Don't get me wrong it can be good, forcing people to move has value. Do note that photo goggles and infra sights completely ignore it.

I'm also observing you are putting a lot of stock into randomly drawing tactics cards (if your campaign even uses them). Tactics cards can be strong, but I'm not sure I'd build my gang around them.

All in all, play what you want .

 

[HugeSamples]

Thinking more on this, let's try to lean into the overseer/psy-gheist thing.

Have you considered something like opprobrious curse instead?

Potentially giving someone 4 flesh wounds could be pretty good.

Or penumbral mirror?

This might combo with your infiltrators better, potentially getting them out of danger, or positioning them for their next victim.

 

[HugeSamples]

I apologize for the confusion on fun vs good. It's a confusing topic.

Things can be good and fun.

And things can be "broken" and unfun. (looking at you corpse grinders!)

With regards to unrememberable utterance, I don't think it'd be unfun if you somehow managed to get the dream of a 12" diameter, one action bubble. It's hard to pull off and would probably be epic.

On the other hand, sitting across the map giving your plasma cannon extra shots errs on the side of "unfun" as it's easy to pull off consistently and doesn't have a lot of counter play.

Deleque have to walk a line since they have a lot of things people consider unfun.

e.g. the darkness descends tactic card (it makes the map pitch black until a 6 is rolled at the end of the round). Completely shutting out the opposing gang unless they've teched into specifically fighting your gang.

or the obfuscation skill "take down" which lets you capture fighters fairly easily.

If that makes sense.

 

[Sarkazym]

Not upset, it's probably the bluntness of communication over a text medium. It naturally has a negative tone to it.

I just wanted to be clear, it hard to tell sometimes. I got out of 40k when 8th came out, skipped 9th, then tried to play 10th. The hostility I get from Competitve players on FB groups and forums like Dakka have pretty much driven me out of 10th as well. Glad to hear we can have a civil discussion.

Responses:
- I'm aware that Overseer is used on the bigger guns, but Delaque just doesn't have access to the super big guns. Looks like a Phantom with a Plasma Gun would be the best option to try and take advantage of it. It would help the Template users, but they're going to move further away from the leader and leave him out in the open. I think it's great, but Delaque are more limited in their options is all. If I was going with a more static shooting Gang where they aren't moving away from the Leader I can see it being more useful. I just don't see Delaque being good enough to do that to justify it.

- I'm starting out simple with Overseer. It's not to get the Gheist to move. The only use that the Gheist is going to get out of it is starting off with his Power in place at the start of the game. Group Activate w/Wyrm, Concentrate (B), Sight Blight (B) off Wyrm. If that doesn't work, then Overseer to repeat. That's 2 chances which should get it into play. After that, the Gheist is going to Maintain for the +3 then move.

The Real value though is the Wyrm, which is going to Double move everytime he activates. So that Wyrm can Move(B)x2 for 12" and carry his 8" Bubble with him. He's a pretty small model and the bubble doesn't need LOS. I expect the player to do everything you suggested. Either take Anti-Dark stuff, or back out and shoot. which is more of a control mechanic than one I expect to actually do anything. The longer I leave the Gheist to Activate, my opponent is going to have to deal with that bubble possible moving somewhere, which is why I want more activations than fewer elite activations. Alternatively, I can activate him early and put the bubble in place that my opponent has to deal with. With no Premeasuring allowed he's going to have to gauge the border until he's actually got a model in it. No LoS means I can have the Wyrm on the otherside of the wall where he simply can't be seen. Overseer is just a minor option at that stage. I doubt I'll be in range of the Gheist to pull it off, but having the Wyrm move 24" with whatever bubble is simply worth exploring.

- I have considered 'Curse' and 'Mirror' when I started looking at the Powers, especially with the Ghul. 'Spatial Psychosis' was another one that REALLY appealed to me because it's a 12"-15" Simple Power that doesn't need LoS. Overseer could potentially Pin 4 fighters before I move in for some action. That would require a babysitting choir until the range got close.

- I have a strong feeling about the Bubble abilities since they don't require single Targets with each use. 'Sight Blight' is simply the biggest bubble available to test it. 'Utterance' I feel is the strongest because it eliminates all Double Actions without them using some shenanigans. This means I won't get charged, and have to be in LOS at the time they activate to be taking the shots. 'Cacophony' would be the next choice, but really only effective against those with weak BS, but would allow me to focus down those that hit first. 'Cloak' and 'Howl' are not as useful, but too situational to try the maintain tactic.

- I took your advice and looked at a bunch of different skill options that might be better. I'm stuck on the Overseer for now to put the Bubble tactic to the test and nothing more. Evade is broad enough to keep my leader around. Overwatch would commit him to more shooty which limits my flexibilty with him. Mentor would get around the XP problem, but would probably be better on a more specialized leader chasing XP. Faceless is another one that is defensive. Psi Touched if I were to start him out as a psyker, but I'm going with the Gheist. Out of all the shooting skills I like Trick Shot almost as much as Fast Shot, but would see more out of those if I gave him a Plasma gun. I REALLY like Tactician, but I'll cover that later.

 

[Sarkazym]

I'm also observing you are putting a lot of stock into randomly drawing tactics cards (if your campaign even uses them). Tactics cards can be strong, but I'm not sure I'd build my gang around them.

I almost feel that this almost warrants a separate thread, but since it's relative to my gang, I'll ask it here.
There are 3 ways in N23 to generate Tactics. The pre-set one which limits you to one supplement as your pool. The Limited method where you pick 30 and they're one user per Campaign. Not helpful when there are over 300 to sift through.

Then there is the Custom Method. I was initially under the impression that this is the 'Standard' Method because it says so as it's first line. I've only recently been made aware that this might be an N23 thing and probably why I don't see much discussion on tables in gang lists. I just assumed that this was the main way because that's what I read and see in videos like Goonhammer, and Miniature Montage, but they limit it to 10 or 12 for reasons I don't understand. I have this feeling that it might be the result of it not being a system until N23. I like the idea of narrowing it down to 18 to specialize your Gang, it assigns them random numbers for when the mission calls for Random Tactics and keeps your pool limited to what you built your gang around.

Then it's up to the Scenario to dictate how tactics are used. After reading that I started looking at the different scenarios. Keep in mind at this stage I've only been exposed to N23, and HoS scenarios. I have no idea what the earlier scenarios actually call for. Pg. 191 says that players simply pick two tactics from their pool each game unless the scenario says something different. You then get to randomly generate additional ones for each 100 Creds you're under your opponent by. This is repeated in all the scenarios in N23 and HoS. So I assumed that they are simply a part of the game.

With that knowledge I built a small list of 2 tactics that will be my default go-to and build my list around that leading up to where I am at. I had NO idea that tactics aren't universally at this stage of the game. 'Mass Infiltration' and 'Deceit' are the two I built around. Mass Infiltration is going to allow me to play with Infiltration on the Ghosts/Shadows w/o actually getting them the skill and committing them to that tactic. They simply support the Ghul, Phantom as needed. It's why I'm not really bothered by the bonus Short on the Lasguns because the Autoguns will already be closer. Deceit is simply a better 'Steal the Initiative' where I have the option to reverse winning the Initiative to force my opponent to be active instead of waiting for me to react.

Even my friend who is running the Casual hasn't really thought much about it until I showed him my rulebook. I'm still the new guy, but it seems like a sorted out mechanic and if it's not being played that way, its probably should be.

If we do end up playing this way (and I HOPE we actually do!), then two more skills become very attractive on the Leader that fits very well into the Delaque though process. 'Fake Out' will help me avoid the Scenarios that don't start with the 2 Tactics cards, which is a VERY Delaque thing to do. Why go into a fight where we have to start with a disadvantage when we don't have to. 'Tactician' is the other one that I would need clarification on. It's going to allow me to take any used Tactics card, like Mass Infiltrate, and shuffle it back in then PICK another one to take it's place.

That's my train of thought on Tactics cards and why all the advice is confusing. I'm seeing it as being a common part of most games, when I'm finding out that not necessarily the case. Hope that puts things into perspective a bit.

 

[HugeSamples]

I believe how tactic decks are generated is up to the arbiter of the campaign.

I personally am not a super fan of tactics cards as they are often a sucker punch/their own meta. Necromunda has enough complexity without them. Also GW can't be bothered to keep them in stock . (I know I can print them out, but I like nice things)

You strategy makes sense and I'm eager to hear how it works out .

At the very least make one of your auto gunners a specialist (even if you don't give it a special weapon) so you don't miss out on the ability to recruit one. Specialists get to choose how they advance, gangers advance randomly.

Since you are doing a "dark gang" you might want to look into gun shrouds on guns that can use them (basic and pistol weapons IIRC) or weapons that have the silent trait. That way you don't reveal your models after shooting invalidating your dark bubble. You don't need photo goggles at the moment since you're not doing the full on pitch black thing and your models are unaffected by sight blight.

The new rules for pitch black you might have to roll on a table when you cast the power, it's unclear how sight blight works with that. I'm not sure if it defaults to 3" visibility since at the time sight blight was written that was the only option. Ask your arbiter.

Another edge case you might need arbitration on is what happens if someone enters the bubble late in the round. Are all previously revealed models still revealed, or does their state reset to hidden for this model? It's likely the former as the latter is way too much book keeping. i.e. is the revealed state global or local to individual fighters?

Another common mistake people make with powers that don't require line of sight is measuring distance. You cannot measure distances through solid objects, such as walls. You must measure around them.

You also might need to be within 12" of the wyrm to maintain your power. It's not clear how that works under the node rules. Ask your arbiter. It probably snaps back to the gheist if the wyrm isn't in range?

 

[Sarkazym]

I believe how tactic decks are generated is up to the arbiter of the campaign.

I absolutely agree here. I'm trying to figure out what the intent/rule is. Without the Arbitrator's toolkit, how are Tactics intended to be implemented? Going off N23 it looks like 2 Tactics are available in most of the Scenarios. I get serious MTG vibes and see players who have more Cards getting a unfair advantage over those who don't. Especially since GW has cycled out which cards are in the rotation. I even chuckle when I think of the purist vs. proxy players now being part of our community.

- Pre-Set feels like levelling the playing field for newer players who don't have access to the broader range of Tactics. Feels like new players starting MTG and getting tooled by Veteran players with cards they didn't know existed. The Tactics are now tied to the Books, and not the Cards so availability is less of an issue.
- The Limited method is another balance mechanic to find balance for players who like Tactics for those who want to play more like 1st ed where the differences between the gangs were mostly cosmetic and the variation was limited to the skill options. Not opposed to it, but it's going to force me to change my list up.
- The Custom Method works really well IMO for a similar reasons the Pre-Set method. It's a Hybrid solution where the Tactics pool can be tailored while limiting all players to 18 options. Since we copy the name and effect onto the sheet finding the Cards isn't an issue. All the Arbitrator has to do is verify whether a Card exists out there in the void. Like a Librarian in the Black Library.

The rules for implementing Tactics are clearly a part of the game as their inclusion is a part of the rules outside of the Arbitrator's toolkit. I simply see removing them as a 'House' rule to ignore a mechanic that is a part of the game. Going off the RAW, Gang Tactics are a part of the Scenarios on p.191. The simplest interpretation is pick any two available to your gang, easiest way is to simply have the Cards. Without the cards it's problematic so they then turn it over to the Arbitrator with the options listed above. I'm simply trying to find the most likely ruling and planning for that. I'm aware that this also means that the other gangs will also be able to get their power combo's off more commonly but I'm not concerned about that since it seems intended that I can do the same. That's why I chose the tactics I did. 'Mass Infiltration' is still available as part of the free download and 'Deceit' is in HoS. So both are still available to all players and not OOP or Hard to find.

The reason I'm stuck on this is a bit selfish. I'm going to be playing at the local Warhammer store, where they tend to rule in favor of As Written vs. House rules. The manager isn't opposed to house rules, but leaves that up to the players. It's the only way I've been able to try 40k as that's the only place where I'm more likely to find 'Open War' games and avoid the Competitive Scenarios which I don't agree with. I might come to the same conclusion that you do about Tactics, but I'd rather know for myself why that feeling exists instead of taking someone's word for it.

At the very least make one of your auto gunners a specialist (even if you don't give it a special weapon) so you don't miss out on the ability to recruit one. Specialists get to choose how they advance, gangers advance randomly.

Since you are doing a "dark gang" you might want to look into gun shrouds on guns that can use them (basic and pistol weapons IIRC) or weapons that have the silent trait. That way you don't reveal your models after shooting invalidating your dark bubble. You don't need photo goggles at the moment since you're not doing the full on pitch black thing and your models are unaffected by sight blight.

These are things that I will definitely consider. I did not know about taking a specialist since I haven't really looked at the post game stuff, or how things level. I have a bunch of questions about things like this, but haven't really looked for answers yet. Your earlier comment about 'forgetting' to take a specialist makes MUCH more sense now, so I'll work it in to my next change.

The new rules for pitch black you might have to roll on a table when you cast the power, it's unclear how sight blight works with that. I'm not sure if it defaults to 3" visibility since at the time sight blight was written that was the only option.

Another edge case you might need arbitration on is what happens if someone enters the bubble late in the round. Are all previously revealed models still revealed, or does their state reset to hidden for this model? It's likely the former as the latter is way too much book keeping. i.e. is the revealed state global or local to individual fighters?

The rules on Sight Blight are clear that they are affected by Darkness when they enter the bubble but they're not going to know when they are in the bubble because they can't pre-measure. As I only have N23, I simply applied the only version of 'Pitch Black' I have access to. I just assumed that all of my models gain hidden to enemy models in the bubble. Then the hidden marker is removed when the conditions are met. I was already under the impression that I would roll once on the table when I cast the power and that this would be known to my opponent before he activates anything and that whatever level I rolled would apply to all models. Makes sense that the strength of the Darkness be tied to it as well, and keep the book-keeping to a manageable level. ie. All enemy fighters would be affected by the same level of Darkness.

This alone is what makes Sight Blight probably the worst of all the powers because you have 50% chance of visibility being 12"+, so that alone nullifies any benefit gained from having the power in effect anyways. On a sidenote, this also affected my decision to take Overseer, since I got the impression that if I didn't like the Result, I could re-cast the same power for a re-roll on the table. Ideally I'm looking for any 1-3 result to stop being Charged unless my opponent planned for it. I'll check with the Manager then the Arbitrator to be sure. The Dice Gods already have to smile on me to 1) Get the power off with the lowest Will psyker available at start, 2) Get an acceptable level of 'Pitch Black' to make it useful, 3)Keep it up long enough to actually affect my opponent w/o getting shot/attacked/Interrupted, and 4)Hope he doesn't have a way to deal with Pitch Black. Either way, I feel that this solution is a fair compromise and won't see too much resistance.

You also might need to be within 12" of the wyrm to maintain your power. It's not clear how that works under the node rules. Ask your arbiter. It probably snaps back to the Gheist if the wyrm isn't in range?

I completely agree with you and he must be within 12" to maintain the power, I don't ever plan on having the Wyrm more than 12" away from the Gheist at any point anyways. I still don't fully understand the Exotic pets rules, but ending the Pets activation outside of the 3"/12" just looks BAD and for psykers I don't see any reason to do it unlike the more combat oriented pets. To give you an idea of the trick I have in my back pocket this is the idea. Not to rely on or use, but to have available if I need it. The Wyrm has his bubble 9"-12" to the right of. This makes my opponent choose to go around it knowing where it is, and it won't affect his current models activation. Should my opponent shift his gang to the other side of the map, I can activate the Gheist, have the Wyrm move 12" to be near the Gheist, then Overseer will then sling the Wyrm 9"-12" to the other side where my opponent has gone to avoid it in the first place. I will agree it's not that great with 'Sight Blight' but you can see it being a threat with the other bubbles.

Another common mistake people make with powers that don't require line of sight is measuring distance. You cannot measure distances through solid objects, such as walls. You must measure around them.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THAAAAANNNNKKKK YOU!!! THIS is what I was looking for and I knew if we kept having a civil conversation, I would eventually find the conflict that makes the responses make sense. I fell into the trap of glancing over this rule under the belief that I understood how it worked. When I went to read it, then look up discussions online I found even more rules that are commonly played wrong, even a combined video. This one of those things that is commonly known to those who have actually played, which I haven't yet. This is going to be my homework for today in my downtime.

Already it changes a few things. Bubbles should be treated more like Amorphous Slime. I feel that it makes 'Sight Blight' stronger because at 8" it's quite fluid and will still affect enemy models the easiest. It also makes 'Utterance' appear less potentially broken and I'm more inclined to take it to start out with. I'm not going to make any changes to my Gang just yet. Gonna dive into this before making any changes, including the ones above.

I'm even more grateful for your help, and patience with me. This has made me even more excited to refine my gang before my first game this week!

Side Question: Is there a Global Pitch Black Tactics card? If so, which set is it in? You mentioned something about it and I got the impression that something like that exists. I'm genuinely interested in it from a Thematic stand point and not necessarily Tactical.

 

[HugeSamples]

Side Question: Is there a Global Pitch Black Tactics card? If so, which set is it in? You mentioned something about it and I got the impression that something like that exists. I'm genuinely interested in it from a Thematic stand point and not necessarily Tactical.

In the original delaque tactics deck (GW have made 2 decks one pre "house of" books, and one post "house of" books) there was a card called "darkness descends" which made the entire board fall under the pitch black rules.

There is also a outcast psyker power called manipulate lumens that lets you turn the lights on or off (add or remove the pitch black condition) that your psykers can level into if you were so inclined.

There are a few websites out there that have the rules for every tactics card ever written. I think goonhammer has all of them?

In the last campaign I played the arbiter "banned" certain tactics cards and we were allowed to make a deck of 10. I'll admit it was very overwhelming given the sheer number of tactic cards out there. There are some really strong cards out there that more or less everyone picks. e.g. the one that flat out gives a model another action.

If I were to run a campaign myself I think I would limit people to what is in "their house" of book and have a rule that once you used a card it is removed from your deck. i.e. all cards are one time uses for the whole campaign. For gangs that don't have a "house of" book, it'd be w/e was in their officially released deck. That's just me though, like I said I have opinions on tactics cards .

The reason I'm stuck on this is a bit selfish. I'm going to be playing at the local Warhammer store, where they tend to rule in favor of As Written vs. House rules. The manager isn't opposed to house rules, but leaves that up to the players. It's the only way I've been able to try 40k as that's the only place where I'm more likely to find 'Open War' games and avoid the Competitive Scenarios which I don't agree with. I might come to the same conclusion that you do about Tactics, but I'd rather know for myself why that feeling exists instead of taking someone's word for it.

I'm not sure you will be able to avoid house rules. As you've probably noticed the ruleset is quiet crunchy. Whoever is the arbiter is going to need to make some judgement calls at some point.

Necromunda can be quite confusing. I still have the "whelp we played that wrong" moments after games. Even with all the confusing rules, it's one of the most fun tabletop games I've played.

I'm glad I could help.

Welcome to the underhive!

 

[Lunarcruiser]

A large chunk of players and game managers who regularly play against delaque often prefer using tactics cards rules as written, you randomly pick your alloted amount per game. Delaque have a bunch of really powerful ones used right that can ruin games.
Personally I am a fan of random tactics cards over ones you pick. You get to try something different with them but your Fighters should be the main attraction.
On overseer. To use it it requires your leader to use both their actions to yell, or creepily whisper in delaques case, to use it your leader can't do things like move and shoot. You need to use it to catapult a fighter across the battle field or to double shoot or fight. It's best use is to hang around a heavy shooter all the time getting into melee lets tgem hit back so could go bad. All the time your underling is double shooting your leader is not and they are no slouches in that department in thier own right.
At some point you say that delaque don't have access to long ranged weapons or heavy weapons ( the garbage heavy flamer doesn't count). They do via the Trade Post but ignoring that for the time being Delaque really don't need either. On a good board ranges of over 24" unless you are in the ash wastes don't come up a lot and is they do your opponents should be hugging cover from those weapons anyway. Any gang that has access to plasma guns has a great 24" ranged gun. Your shorter ranged specials and higher level side arms are all great, flamers are ok but that is because you have web. Delaque should be constantly moving, getting close and hitting and fading. That's a job for Special Weapons like the grav gun and plasma gun, Web anything and any of your nasty pistols.
delaque gangs are jack's of all trades but Thier fighters are not. Each fighter is a specialist tool trying to cover all bases for each fighter is just a expensive way of using only half your fighters worth. Your Naght ghul will murder in melee that's where they should be. If you want to give them a gun for potshots when they can't get into claw range just drop a 5 credit gun on them. Your web infiltrator needs to get close quick spray webs then escape. They could get a emergency knife but more importantly get them a grapnel launcher to swing out of danger Spiderman style sharpish. A heavy hitting shooter with a plasma or grav gun needs to be shooting, moving to position and more shooting. Your gang as a whole needs to deal with any threat but with special tools focused on the different jobs. Like Orlocks your fighters can dabble in many forms of combat but a dedicated gang to one style will put do you is you try to match them in kind. Goliath's and Corpse grinders will smash you to a pulp in melee Shoot them. Van Saar and Enforcers will out shoot you. Stab them in the kidneys. But do it with individual focused fighters so you can deal with all situations as a gang.

 

[Sarkazym]

Updating my thoughts right now, and thx for chiming in Luna. We see eye to eye on a few things up there, especially Overseer. For a Gang that is dependant on mobility with limited range options, Overseer can be a liability when dependant on it.

I looked at the Gunshroud like you suggested and I don't think it works with 'Sight Blight'. I don't fully understand how Hidden mechanics work, but I have a pretty good idea.

My models gain a Hidden Marker but it only applies to enemy models in the bubble. The Hidden markers don't affect enemy models outside of the bubble and they'll only be able to help affected Teamates by putting them down as normal, or setting them on fire. So all Gunshroud is going to do is keep the Hidden Marker on my model if I fail to do anything to the 1 or 2 models that are actually affected by the Hidden Marker.

If I went with the Full Dark Tactic, then it would make more sense, but would also require me to spend more Creds to get my own Darkness counters. I like the idea, but it's going to take the Gang in a different direction.

Changes

- I updated the Specialist Ghost as suggested, but put him back on the Autogun for now. Now that I know how rare they are after creation it makes sense. So thx for that. I'm happy with the setup as it is now, but I've got some alternatives I'm also comfortable with.

I'm leaning more to taking Utterance as my starting power now that I have a better grasp on how measuring works now. I like Sight Blight, but too many factors need to align to justify the investment in it at this time.

Option A
I can drop the Armor on the Gheist and upgrade the Specialist to have a Long Rifle, and maybe one of the loose Pistols to Master Craft it as well. The Gheist would then be behind them and rely on Target Priority for protection and give him more static Choir support. Sight Blight would be there to protect the fire support base which given the range means I could take the first 2 turns to setup the gimmick. This frees up the Leader to explore other Skills.

Option B
I can strip all the extras to start the Specialist off with a Plasma Gun. If I do that, I'd probably Swap the guns with the Phantom, grab a shooting skill, then use 'Mass Infiltrate' on the Specialist Ganger. I'd feel better about losing all the goodies to grab another Ganger or Juve. This would lock me into Overseer while giving me the chance to use it on the Plasmagun after I get the Gheist up and running.

Option Eff It
I give up, make a standard Gang and play every game like a skirmish to figure things out. My Core box is being built like this, so I have a broad set of options when I add the other box.

Long Rifle, web gauntlet, Staff (Cosmetic)
Plasmagun, auto pistol (Holster)
Web gun, autopistol (Holster)
Autogun
Autogun
Shotgun
2xAutopistols
2xAutopistols
Web Pistol
Hand Flamer

The Long Rifle on the Leader is mounted on the back, so I'm going to attempt to magnetize some options on him. This is something I'm considering after I talk to the guys on Thursday and find out how Tactics are going to be implemented.

I'm not trying to derail what they're trying to do, but I dislike House rules, even if they are globally accepted. When its done to clear up something fuzzy like how Sight Blight/Pitch black currently work, is fine. When its used to completley ignore a mechanic, I disagree. That's what destroyed 40k and drove me away for the 3rd edition in a row now.

While it's unlikely to happen with a Specialist game like Necromunda, I'm planning on enjoying it while I can. I'm fully aware there are borderline broken Tactics cards and global auto-includes. As long as all players can access them then I'm good.

 

[HugeSamples]

Option B
I can strip all the extras to start the Specialist off with a Plasma Gun. If I do that, I'd probably Swap the guns with the Phantom, grab a shooting skill, then use 'Mass Infiltrate' on the Specialist Ganger. I'd feel better about losing all the goodies to grab another Ganger or Juve. This would lock me into Overseer while giving me the chance to use it on the Plasmagun after I get the Gheist up and running.

Phantoms don't have primary access to the shooting skill tree. You can't take a shooting skill at gang creation.

I'm leaning more to taking Utterance as my starting power now that I have a better grasp on how measuring works now. I like Sight Blight, but too many factors need to align to justify the investment in it at this time.

Most of the things I've read about sight blight say it's pretty underwhelming and many call it a "noob trap". That said try it out and form your own opinion. I haven't personally tried it out yet.

My models gain a Hidden Marker but it only applies to enemy models in the bubble. The Hidden markers don't affect enemy models outside of the bubble and they'll only be able to help affected Teamates by putting them down as normal, or setting them on fire. So all Gunshroud is going to do is keep the Hidden Marker on my model if I fail to do anything to the 1 or 2 models that are actually affected by the Hidden Marker.

Like I was alluding to earlier sight blight has some weirdness to it. The pitch black rules--hidden/revealed--were written with it being a global board state. So it's unclear to me for how to track it for people individually inside the bubble, especially if someone enters the bubble later than other models. It sounds like a book keeping nightmare.

For building your models I wouldn't sweat WYSIWYG too much, unless your game group is enforcing it. Just let your opponent know which guys have the scary guns.

 

[Sarkazym]

Phantoms don't have primary access to the shooting skill tree. You can't take a shooting skill at gang creation.

Let me clarify. I meant a more shooting orientated Skill, not necessarily a Shooting skill. Ballistics Expert comes to mind. Evade isn't a bad choice and fits thematically. It would even open up to playing around with an Obfuscation skill.

I'm aware that Sight Blight is underwhelming. It was 1 of 2 with a big bubble, and I merely tried to see the best way to use it should it work in the best situation. It's best use would be to protect the 'support' staff with a flexible smoke effect, until the Infiltrators got stuck in. I still think it would work that way, but less reliable than Utterance.

I'm going over actions again today, so we'll see.

 

[HugeSamples]

Let me clarify. I meant a more shooting orientated Skill, not necessarily a Shooting skill. Ballistics Expert comes to mind. Evade isn't a bad choice and fits thematically. It would even open up to playing around with an Obfuscation skill.

I'm aware that Sight Blight is underwhelming. It was 1 of 2 with a big bubble, and I merely tried to see the best way to use it should it work in the best situation. It's best use would be to protect the 'support' staff with a flexible smoke effect, until the Infiltrators got stuck in. I still think it would work that way, but less reliable than Utterance.

I'm going over actions again today, so we'll see.

If you are giving him a plasma gun you also might want to consider munitioneer from the savant tree. or fixer, more credits equals more good .

 

[Sarkazym]

Read up on Actions today to get a better feel for what I can actually do beyond the Move, Shoot, Charge. I've adjusted the list accordingly. It's not set yet, as I'm going in expecting to use the Two Tactics cards in virtually every game. Based on what's been said, I might have to change that depending on what the Arbiter says, but I believe that I can swing it toward being allowed to since we're in a GW store where house rules should be limited to players and not groups of players. Fingers Crossed.

- I'm dropping the Armor on the Gheist for now. He's going to sit in the rear and rely on the Wyrm for power range. I'm going to simplify his power and just run with 'Spatial Psychosis'. It's a 12"-15" (+9"-12"off the Wyrm), PINNING that doesn't need LOS or a hit roll. It does need that 8+, but it's Simple, so I can get him setup, move the Wyrm, and just annoy my opponent. This will let me learn powers without building to a more specialized gimmick. I'm still back and forth about it so might still run Utterance, but it's pretty much down to those two, and whichever one I go with, the other will most likely be the other one down the road. I went ahead and ordered the Outlands book, so I'll explore those options later.

- I've put a Long Rifle on the Specialist to give me a second Long Range Weapon. The plan is to move him over to a Plasma Gun down the road. I'm also eyeing the Grav-gun, not for the Damage, but for the Movement Obstacle potential. Both Weapons aren't going to matter for the first few games, so no need to discuss them much right now.

- I'm keeping Overseer for now. He will still be able to swing the Gheist-Wyrm combo should I manage to actually Pin a model then Swing the Wyrm over for more irritating PIN mechanics, while giving the Specialist a 2nd shot if he's got a better angle than the Leader. In both situations, I'm not relying on Overseer to do the work, but as a Secondary Option if he can't do anything else. I really like Mentor though since the Gheist doesn't have an easy path to XP, and has Fast Learner. I can also see it being useful to add XP to get the other models over the edge for an advancement.

I read the Munitioneer, not for the Leader but in general, and I'm REALLY interested in it, both from a Game Standpoint, as well as Themeatic. I have a few questions though. First, is it 1 per game, or can I get multiple cases with Multiple Models. At this point, it's more for keeping the Theme around my gang, but having a potential 6 ammo crates works perfectly with what the Strangers do. Second, is it a Standard Size? The only 2 representations I see for it are the Squat Character, where they are pretty small. The other one are the Ammo Crates from the Core Box, which I don't have, but could either Cast a similar size with my Hirst Arts molds, or get my mate to 3D print em.

- I was most surprised to find that being Prone/Pinned leaves you with a surprising amount of options to do. I'll get a better feel for it after playing games, but 'Take Cover' and 'Blind Fire' both being used, especially by the Dual Pistol Juves. No, it's not reliable, but for a 5pt, Rapid Fire weapon it looks like the Cheapest option to get away with attempting it.

- I've gone ahead and also ordered the Trader models. I think the Masked one makes a perfect 'Whisper Trader' as a Hanger-on. It's only 30 Credits, but found out that they're generally not available until after your first game. He also doesn't function like normal Hired Guns and hangs around until his buff is used 6x, or he ends up getting off'd in a home game. I'm also looking forward to simply painting the model.

- Tactics. 'Mass Infiltrate' is the only Concrete one, provided they allow it. Previously I only planned to ever Infiltrate 2 additional models, the Ghosts or the Shadows as the game dictated. With a 2/3 chance I felt it would be pretty reliable. Now it will be the Shadows where I could also do the Autogun Ganger if I get all 3, since the Specialist is now Ranged Equipped. 'Shifting Shadows' is looking really good to do a quick 4" deploy/move on the Nacht-Ghul, Phantom before activating, especially to get across and obstacle.

- I'd still like to build a list of 18 Tactics. I have a few that I would love to have available for Random generation. This is assuming we're going to use the Custom Method which I believe is the standard option. Until I get an answer though, I'll also postpone that discussion. While I'm sure I could find a list of available Tactics, I've got the Core, Delaque (waiting for me tommorrow), FreePDF, and Underdog Cards. I saw the Delaque (2nd ed) if there is a difference, Delaque Vehicle Cards, and Zone Mortalis up for Pre-Order on Warhammer site if they're worth picking up.

Thanks again. Looking forward to Tomorrow.

 

[HugeSamples]

- I'm dropping the Armor on the Gheist for now. He's going to sit in the rear and rely on the Wyrm for power range. I'm going to simplify his power and just run with 'Spatial Psychosis'. It's a 12"-15" (+9"-12"off the Wyrm), PINNING that doesn't need LOS or a hit roll. It does need that 8+, but it's Simple, so I can get him setup, move the Wyrm, and just annoy my opponent. This will let me learn powers without building to a more specialized gimmick. I'm still back and forth about it so might still run Utterance, but it's pretty much down to those two, and whichever one I go with, the other will most likely be the other one down the road. I went ahead and ordered the Outlands book, so I'll explore those options later.

This is probably the right call for your first delaque psyker experience. Spatial Psychosis is probably the most consistently useful power the delaque have. As is dropping the armor on the gheist. He should be one of the safest models in your gang.

With the outcast powers remember delaque can't buy them straight away. They need to have at least one whisper before they can spend xp on outcast powers.

If they became a psyker by some other non-delaque mechanic then that rule doesn't apply.

There are many resources available for free online. I believe @TopsyKretts runs necrovox? if you're playing at a GW store they might get sour if you didn't buy their stuff. That said if you are just interested in reading up on the powers you can save the money on the book. It does contain another campaign type in it, so the book def has value outside of the powers.