N18 Delaque Starter list

Once you have the credits spare in your gang getting the harness. As a paired weapon with Phase and Shock you get a double attack on the charge and a additional on for duel weapons. For your single attack Psy-geist on a charge that means 4 attacks in the charge which ignore all armour and field saves. With shock and 4 attacks you are pretty likely to roll a six to hit so auto wound.
With your base move of 6 you add the +2 from the harness, + 3 inches from the claws which gives you a threat range of 11" before you roll your charge distance. That is a scarily fast opportunistic charger. The Psy-geist has a not awful WS of 4+ so could easily charge from a foot or more away and take out any juve ganger or prospect in the game (and hurt champions or 1 wound genestealer cults champions)
 
Once you have the credits spare in your gang getting the harness. As a paired weapon with Phase and Shock you get a double attack on the charge and a additional on for duel weapons. For your single attack Psy-geist on a charge that means 4 attacks in the charge which ignore all armour and field saves. With shock and 4 attacks you are pretty likely to roll a six to hit so auto wound.
With your base move of 6 you add the +2 from the harness, + 3 inches from the claws which gives you a threat range of 11" before you roll your charge distance. That is a scarily fast opportunistic charger. The Psy-geist has a not awful WS of 4+ so could easily charge from a foot or more away and take out any juve ganger or prospect in the game (and hurt champions or 1 wound genestealer cults champions)
The big issue with a harness gheist is leveling them:
you need to get 2 WS bumps.
you probably need to get a T bump.
you probably need to get a W bump.
you probably want to get Will bumps to use their power.

It's a lot of xp. Ignoring the Will bumps that's 32 xp. That's a lot of xp. And that's without the Will bumps, so for all intents and purposes they won't really have a usable power.

A natch-ghul with quickening or levitate only costs 9xp 😉.
 
The big issue with a harness gheist is leveling them:
you need to get 2 WS bumps.
you probably need to get a T bump.
you probably need to get a W bump.
you probably want to get Will bumps to use their power.

It's a lot of xp. Ignoring the Will bumps that's 32 xp. That's a lot of xp. And that's without the Will bumps, so for all intents and purposes they won't really have a usable power.

A natch-ghul with quickening or levitate only costs 9xp 😉.
I wouldn't use a harness Psy-geist as a long haul heavy hitters. Swoop across the field and hit the isolated target and retreat. Given that they always count as using ladders they can easily leap across and hit that Specialist sniper.

It's a opportunistic strike not a long slog fighter build. With those 4 attacks on the charge and a WS of 4+ and a S+1 weapon that ignores saves and possibly auto wounds there is a very good chance of taking out a one wound fighter in one go. You don't need a WS upgrade to pull it off, although it would be nice, Toughness and wounds is always nice but with a 8" move you can quickly run 16" back to cover.

A delicate tool to be sure that requires skill to use well but by picking vulnerable targets we'll you can very quickly rack up kills. All the while your master of shadows, phantoms and Naght ghuls can hit the real hard targets.
 
A delicate tool to be sure that requires skill to use well but by picking vulnerable targets we'll you can very quickly rack up kills. All the while your master of shadows, phantoms and Naght ghuls can hit the real hard targets.
That's fair.

Probably best to not play it like a nacht-ghul.

I'll have to ponder on a build for that. :)
 
The problem with this one is that they are likely to run out of howl range when they break from existential :(
Not if they're Pinned, which is the idea.

Most of what I've been looking at is how to play 'Aggressively' with the Wyrm, making use of the leash range, neutralizing any support that might help the guy I'm going after, etc. Of the 3 games I've played, I really like using him that way, but now I'm starting to look at ways to support my guys after they've done their action. This would allow me to keep my Gheist nearer to the team and use the Wyrm to address the aftermath of what my gang has done.

Broken Howl is 5"-8" with Choir. It's just a feeling, but I like the idea of getting one of the CE's up w/Choir and maintaining it. Craven, Utterance, Curse are my top 3. Seen Unseen could work if I get the enemy to bottle forcing the targets to rely on their own stats for sticking around. I still like the idea of Sight Blight, but for now it's off the table. If an enemy model is Pinned from any of the other fighters, then all I have to do is get them to Break. Barrage would be REALLY good if I could get the Wyrm on a Pinned model, but that range, while possible is going to make things more difficult. That's where Terrify comes in. Terrify has the range and will prove more useful if there is a target already outside of Craven.

So a Broken Prone model moving ~3"-4" is QUITE manageable to keep a model locked down. I think that he Wyrm is mobile enough as well to herd the model away. If he's wounded, I could use that to manage a 'Coup de Gras' if needed. At least that's the idea anyways. I just gotta figure out how well Craven works on it's own first.
 
Looks like you are right broken, pinned models move 1/2 their movement characteristic.
So it's a more controlled 'Stasis' if I can get em to break. Just need to find out ways to get Prone/Injured models to take Nerve tests.

Running Howl solo won't be very useful on it's own. In this case, I agree with you and they'll more than likely be out of range. The model that gets hit doesn't take a break test, he simply becomes Pinned/X. The models near him take the Nerve tests and will more than likely be run out of range even if I were to get the Wyrm out there into position. So I'd be pretty much keeping the Gheist out of the fight hoping to see that opportunity? That's what I meant by 'works on it's own'. I simply don't know how often, if it happens.

The solutions around that are:
- 'Existential Barrage'. The Range is the issue on this one. A Wyrm could pull it off, but then Im back to babysitting a choir to get the extra 1". It seems made for a Nacht-Ghul but his target would have to survive. I can either upgrade him to have it, or use 'Whisperer' to give it to him, but there are better options for him. A second Gheist would be the last option, but he'd be better off with Psychosis.
- Ghast. Unreliable but probably more accessible early on to try and get Terrify. I can see myself using 4 out of the 6 powers. Getting Psy-touched would make this more accessible.
- 'Fearsome Reputation' (Tactic) - I like this card because it has so much potential when paired with a Nacht-Ghul to be honest.

-----

Right now I'm playing it where most scenarios have 2 Tactics cards available. I'm treating this as 'Normal' in most games I'm expecting. As a result, those 2 dedicated Tactics are precious, so I'm leaning toward Tactics that affect the game in the long run. 'Mass Infiltration' right now is almost always a lock. It seems the best way to compensate for the lack of decent long range weapons. So that second one, I'm looking for something that could have a minor impact on the game instead of a major impact for a model.

- 'Whispered Threats' is potentially my next favorite card. Going off of the Average, I've got a better than 50% chance to make my opponent fail his bottle test. With 'Mass Infiltrate' a Turn 1 or Turn 2 with the Nacht-Ghul feels pretty good to me. Just to have that hanging over my opponents head for the rest of the game will most likely deprive me of XP, but will hopefully give me an edge.
- 'Fearsome Reputation' would have lasting game effects while also putting a Target on the Nacht-Ghul. One counter I've seen to Nacht-Ghuls is to run a buddy system with 1-2 other models around. Forcing the Nacht-Ghul to trade and hopefully get taken out before it gets to activate again. Would definitely make him a bit more fearless when charging into small groups since I believe this attaches when the target is removed before the other models have to take their Nerve Tests, FOR THE REST OF THE GAME.
- 'Having a Bad Day' is a weaker, 3rd option by putting an anti-bubble on the opposing leader/champion at the start of the game. The issue here is that it doesn't affect the targeted models roll, just anyone near him. So wouldn't really affect what I'm trying to do until after the Gang Hierarchy rolls fail, which being a 12"/6" bubble can be managed making this even less effective.

'History of Violence', 'Dirt on You' are in limbo right now. The reasoning is simple, they've been replaced by HoS tactics, not added to them. I really like 'History of Violence'. Removing a leader with the intent of focusing on the Broken aspect would be the best help, but even Goonhammer has recommended this be banned, and I'm inclined to agree for the abuse potential. 'Dirt on You' is just a dumbed down version of 'Having a Bad' day but would affect the Hierarchy roll is all. Waiting for the Arbiters to decide if they're going to allow them or not.
 
I like having armor on leaders and champions at the start.

Everyone else has to earn theirs 😈.
- I tried to keep it on my leader, and I can do it if I drop the Shotgun to a Lasgun. A Lasgun just feels out of place, but could work on my Specialist since I've downgraded him to an Autogun as well. The 'Core' of my Normal Deployment is the Leader, Gheist, and 2 'Others'. The advance force has been the Champion, Nacht-Ghul and 2 'Others'. Having Armor on the Leader didn't help me much.

I usually run the 2 Ghosts with the Leader, and the 2 Juves taking advantage of 'Mass Infiltration'. This was mostly to figure out the point of running 2 Autopistols. Many people have suggested I take Lasguns for their +1 at Long, and it makes sense if I was planning to keep them that way. Now that I've got a good idea of how Dual Pistols works, I'm going to start running the Ghosts off of 'Mass Infiltration'. This is to take advantage of the Autoguns getting the +1 to hit, and why I took them over Lasguns in the first place. This is going to put the Juves with the Leader. Either way the 4 models in the back keeps the Leader fairly protected, that I feel I can justify no Armor for the first game or two.

- I could get Armor for the Champions and still keep the extra body, but it'd have to be another Juve with Dual pistols. I don't really see myself making a 3rd model to pull it off. That'd give me an extra Juve to hang in the back and possibly use 'Mass Infiltrate' on when I roll a 3. The leader wouldn't have any armor, but he'd be pretty safe with 3 Juves, plus the Gheist and Wyrm surrounding him. Makes it easier to manage a Choir, but I'd rather have something with a Basic weapon to do the same thing and still be able to do something a basic weapon.

These are just my thoughts for now. I'm aware that I won't have all my models available every game. With the Merchant, I'd like to top off as often as I can, and 'Doppleganger' is in there as an Obfuscation skill that would be more useful when there are more bodies available. Going Old school and not starting out with any Armor to start seems to be the best way unless I stack juves.
 
You can def play without armor and be successful. Many players see armor as a waste of credits.

In general if the delaque take any amount of return fire they are going to fold quickly.

How much you value armor depends on playstyle and personal preference.
 
Solid Victory today and a much smoother game. We had a few rules we needed to look up which brought more questions, but the game went 5 turns.

Battle Highlights
- I got a full 3 on 'Mass Infiltration'. I did the 2 Autogunners this time. I selected the Gheist as the 3rd while the Wyrm deployed normally. That gave me 4 Infiltrators+Ghul. On turn 1, the Wyrm was on leash and setup for turn 2.

- I took a risk and exposed the 2 Autogunners on turn 1. Potentially more effective than the Juves, but the dice were against me. The tactic wasn't as the Goliaths took the bait. My leader was able to take one OOA.

- The bad rolls were quite comical on both sides. He failed his LD test with Overseer, hit with his Flamer, but failed to wound or ignite him, all on turn 1. He used overseer on turn 2 to get a shot off then realized he walked right in front of the Ghul.

I made him bottle test on 2d6 and he passed on a 4. My Gheist peril'd again and went insane. Lost control next turn, had him wander away from the Wyrm forcing it to Nerve test and fail. He tried casting against me but no luck.

He failed his next bottle test and went downhill for him from there. In the end, I had the 2 Autogunners OOA, he lost everyone except his Webbed Leader with a Ghul 2" away.

He spread his gang a bit more this game, but I found it difficult to get anyone to break. I'm now rethinking that whole tactic.

Q1 - Web status I. They are treated Prone/Webbed. Webbed models can only break it during the recovery step, but they can still Crawl(D) during their activation right? I could see no reason to not allow it.

Q2 - Web Status II. Prone/Serious status while Webbed, what do they count as when the Bottle Test comes around? We counted them toward the penalty.

Q3 - Gang Hierarchy. The leader was webbed when he failed the bottle test, we could find anything restricting Gang Hierarchy. He passed it, but everyone within 12" Webbed or Prone/Injured. Still not sure we played it right.

Q4 - *Posted on the Exotic Pets thread*

-----
I'm dropping all armor. Going to amend my Gang later to reflect the change. Just fits my playstyle more than any sound reasoning.
 
Q2 - Web Status II. Prone/Serious status while Webbed, what do they count as when the Bottle Test comes around? We counted them toward the penalty.
yes you count them the same as any other seriously injured fighter for the purposes of bottling.
 
Q3 - Gang Hierarchy. The leader was webbed when he failed the bottle test, we could find anything restricting Gang Hierarchy. He passed it, but everyone within 12" Webbed or Prone/Injured. Still not sure we played it right.
I'm not sure I understand the question here.

Are you asking if the leader still has his bubble of everyone within 12" also passing their cool?
 
Q1 - Web status I. They are treated Prone/Webbed. Webbed models can only break it during the recovery step, but they can still Crawl(D) during their activation right? I could see no reason to not allow it.
yes, they can still crawl.
 
yes you count them the same as any other seriously injured fighter for the purposes of bottling.
I think you just finalized my approach to playing. Now that I know this, 'Whispered Threats' will most likely be my other main Tactic. I think I'm going to keep this one up my sleeve until the campaign starts to be honest.

Are you asking if the leader still has his bubble of everyone within 12" also passing their cool?
Sorry, we weren't sure if the fighter got his Bubble when down. Lots of laughs were had when we imagine his Goliath Leader, surrounded by Delaque, covered in Web fluid, shouting out 'Keep Fighting!' and working.
yes, they can still crawl.
Thanks, feels good knowing we're getting it right. The book makes you jump around so much to get an answer and still not be sure you figured it out. Rules Gymnastics I believe it was referred to as.

Another question I forgot to ask, because it was the first time we came across it. On Turn 1, I lost one of my Autogunners. Nothing changed in Turn 2 for me since I only ended up with 1 guy pinned, and another go insane. We skipped over it, but I didn't take a Bottle Test because nothing happened to me. ie, we treated a fighter getting injured/OOA as a trigger for the Bottle Test, not a static condition. Should I have taken a Bottle Test end of Round 2 for the man OOA on Round 1?

-----
Either way, Gang is now updated. I initially went back to having a second Long Rifle/Shotgun on the Ghost Specialist. Both of those still left me with a 'Gap' of not having any +ACC in the 8" to 24" range. Despite not working, Infiltrating the Autoguns was much easier to manage over the pistols, because I could get the +ACC bonus on BS 4+, provided the dice roll over a 4+. I tried stripping off Master Crafted and Extra Pistols to find another 35 pts for another Juve, and could only do it if I dropped the Merchant, Downgraded the Fangs to a Sever Sword, or left the Gheist with just his powers.

So I just added the Smoke Grenades back in, but put them on the Webgun this time. My opponent was smart this time and avoided getting in range of the Web gun during Round 1 which was the idea. I feel the Smoke Grenades will work better by allowing him do cause more confusion, instead of exposing himself trying to lock guys down with the Webgun.
 
Another question I forgot to ask, because it was the first time we came across it. On Turn 1, I lost one of my Autogunners. Nothing changed in Turn 2 for me since I only ended up with 1 guy pinned, and another go insane. We skipped over it, but I didn't take a Bottle Test because nothing happened to me. ie, we treated a fighter getting injured/OOA as a trigger for the Bottle Test, not a static condition. Should I have taken a Bottle Test end of Round 2 for the man OOA on Round 1?
That depends on the number of fighters you had for the scenario.

For bottle checks you roll a d6 and add 1 for every seriously injured or out of action fighter at some point in the end of round phase (I forget exactly when, likely after people have had a chance to recover). You always take one if you can fail, regardless if the state from the last round has change. i.e. once you're in bottle range that's bad news for you.

If that number is greater than the number of fighters you started with you have bottled.

For example if you started with 7 fighters and one went down/out of action the highest number you could roll would be a 7 (d6=6 + 1 = 7), which isn't failing, therefore you wouldn't need to take the check as you cannot fail it.